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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 20, 2015 11:29:34 GMT -6
I've used the UAD Ampex on my 2-bus for a while. Was pretty sure it was adding some punch and gluing things together...but last night I was closing my eyes and clicking a bunch of times on the bypass to get to where I didn't know if it was on or off...tried this several times (volume matched to the best of my abilities) and found that I liked the mix better with it off. It's interesting how all the toys can influence your hearing. I need to do more of that critical listening - closing my eyes and really assessing whether I hear differences. Sometimes I wonder whether that's somewhat of an advantage of using a console - you have to really listen instead of having half of your mind focusing on the monitor staring you in the face.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 20, 2015 11:59:08 GMT -6
Exactly man..... when you're mixing on a console, one that's got eq's and compressors, your hands are instinctively adjusting while you're listening.... pretty soon when the layout of the console is in your muscle reflexes, both hands are making critical adjustments but at extremely fast speeds. I worked 4 years in being the AVL director for a mega church down in FL, I had to learn there how to move very quickly when making all kinds of decisions, not just eq and compression but gain and level, then when I moved into the studio it was like a fluid transfer, I was right at home.
This new way of hybrid or ITB mixing is so much different. I went with PT 11 for the sold purpose of me losing a ton of plugins so that I could focus more. I sold a pair of really good and critical monitors you could hear a cricket fart on in a metal record for a pair of KRK's man. I just found that in this new age of mixing and using this hybrid setup or ITB, you should really find the things that you know work and stick to them. Every new plugin that comes out, I'm always not jumping onto until I feel like it's something I could replace in my arsenal, and I said replace not add, it's just too easy to collect entirely too many plugs.
I used to run the tape on my buss too, now I'm starting to get reluctant about puttubg anything on my buss besides the T-Racks Sontech.
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Post by donr on Jun 20, 2015 13:51:01 GMT -6
I've used the UAD Ampex on my 2-bus for a while. Was pretty sure it was adding some punch and gluing things together...but last night I was closing my eyes and clicking a bunch of times on the bypass to get to where I didn't know if it was on or off...tried this several times (volume matched to the best of my abilities) and found that I liked the mix better with it off. It's interesting how all the toys can influence your hearing. I need to do more of that critical listening - closing my eyes and really assessing whether I hear differences. Sometimes I wonder whether that's somewhat of an advantage of using a console - you have to really listen instead of having half of your mind focusing on the monitor staring you in the face. I do that thing a lot when I'm trying a plug in effect. I close my eyes and click the bypass button so fast I lose track of whether its on or off. Then I slow down and decide which click sounds better. If I chose the bypass, the plug comes off. Sometimes no-mojo sounds better. But for me, it's about 60/40 in favor of the plugin, there's usually a reason I wanted it in the first place. |
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Post by drumrec on Jun 20, 2015 14:27:00 GMT -6
I do it all the time! Especially UA plugs for they have so damn nice gui who want to fool my (eyes)ears to like them  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 20, 2015 14:56:09 GMT -6
Yeah - I should say I did the same thing with the Manley VM on the 2 bus. Hadn't really been using it much, but found I liked it a little more with it in there shaving off a tiny bit.
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Post by gouge on Jun 20, 2015 15:45:57 GMT -6
I do it with every piece of gear I use hw and sw.
I also f I'm nd once all the outboard is tweaked I turn off the computer monitors and then mix.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 20, 2015 18:52:11 GMT -6
I bought into the whole tape modelling software at the beginning. I never use it anymore. I'm fortunate that I have a Smart C2 and an API 2500 and 4 other mono compressors. So, I get my mojo there.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 20, 2015 19:56:30 GMT -6
i'm putting my display monitor on a stand that drops down behind my desk so when i'm done mixing the ITB portion of my hybrid set up, i can just use the console/outboard with only my ears and intuition, the other cool thing about hardware is you can ride faders/pans/eq's/thresholds/ratios simultaneously with 2 hands, i always hated the one at a time mousing ITB, i'd guess some control surfaces may allow for 2 moves at once?
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Post by scumbum on Jun 20, 2015 21:01:16 GMT -6
When I turn off the monitor I can hear better and everything sounds more 3-D .
I think looking at the screen takes brain power away from your ears .
Maybe thats why music doesn't sound as good in the modern digital age , more people using their eyes than ears .
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Post by Randge on Jun 20, 2015 21:27:28 GMT -6
I have my screens on a remote control, so I can shut them off when I want/need to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 21:47:15 GMT -6
We just mounted a large screen behind the desk - for kind of scribble strip function.
I don't look at it often, though.
My eyes mostly look at the meterbridge, the Tischmeyer meter in the master bus and the track view to see what parts i need to listen closely in the next turn...
Sure, nice GUI catches the eye and often fools you about what you hear because of expectation bias. It really is more of a problem than a solution, IMO.
One thing i like about Mixbus: Functional GUI, as functional as a real console. And i tend to use less plugins the more i use it. Because i don't really need them...the mojo is already there without the need to fake it manually, and i can concentrate just on volume, EQ and built-in dynamics. Man, it would be great if something similarly good would exist in API or Neve flavour.
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Post by jazznoise on Jun 20, 2015 22:21:04 GMT -6
I'm always really reluctant to put things on the 2-bus. Especially with compressors, it's gotta be pretty gentle for it to bring any improvements to me. Great for checking FX levels though, I almost always end up backing off the verb once I stick one on.
I'm still ITB, but I've been tempted to go hybrid just so I can switch off the monitors and just mix. Even with my extremely bland Reaper UI, I always worry that it's a little distracting.
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Post by henge on Jun 21, 2015 4:20:05 GMT -6
I'm always turning off the screen. as said before, I think the eyes take up alot of brain processing...
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Post by ngallio on Jun 21, 2015 7:39:13 GMT -6
That's a really clever way of evaluating any piece of gear, I should do it more often..
I mix ITB but have a nice 24 fader control surface. Once I have my rough levels/positions set I like to turn on the automation recording, turn off the monitor and do my moves with no distractions.
Also I ALWAYS turn off the monitor when letting clients hear a mix, I found some of them tend to look at the waveform of their instrument and and be influenced by what they see.. I tried a couple of times, I saw the guitar player staring at his trck during listening and then suggesting his guitar was a little low, I thought it was fine (but didn't argue with him) and so just used the zoom function on his waveform and after another listen he was happy.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 21, 2015 11:07:39 GMT -6
I learned many years ago that the eye will command 70% of your brain power for visual functions even if you are intently listening. Close your eyes and then you can focus on the sound.
Stevie Wonder taught me about listening. It takes all of your attention, not 30%. Many 'wonder' why he waves his head from side to side interacting with others in a room. It's called "echo location" and he uses it to map out a room and determine where everyone is. That way he will turn to you when he speaks because he knows where you are and how far away you are from him. There is a completely blind fellow here in San Diego that rides a bike on city streets, he makes a clicking sound with his mouth for echo-location. He never hits anything.
Of course, with all that brain power focused on the sounds, it's no 'wonder' he hears stuff most folks miss.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 21, 2015 12:07:15 GMT -6
I learned many years ago that the eye will command 70% of your brain power for visual functions even if you are intently listening. Close your eyes and then you can focus on the sound. Stevie Wonder taught me about listening. It takes all of your attention, not 30%. Many 'wonder' why he waves his head from side to side interacting with others in a room. It's called "echo location" and he uses it to map out a room and determine where everyone is. That way he will turn to you when he speaks because he knows where you are and how far away you are from him. There is a completely blind fellow here in San Diego that rides a bike on city streets, he makes a clicking sound with his mouth for echo-location. He never hits anything. Of course, with all that brain power focused on the sounds, it's no 'wonder' he hears stuff most folks miss. may just be the coolest damn thing i've ever read! I love me some Stevie! the man is a straight pipe to music. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 21, 2015 14:44:36 GMT -6
I also learned an incredible amount from recording with Stevie in Detroit during the late '60s and early '70s. He could always tell if somebody came into or left the room. He has always recognized me decades later upon hearing one word out of my mouth and loves the confusion when his entourage don't have any idea who I am.
That experience was compounded by my post production mentor during the '90s. He showed me that a mix that sounded incredible with no picture could fall flat on its face when you turned the picture on and the opposite was true of something mixed to picture. I don't think most people doing music videos realize they need to do a separate, dedicated mix.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 21, 2015 15:15:43 GMT -6
I have a Stevie Wonder album...
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Post by drumrec on Jun 21, 2015 17:35:33 GMT -6
I also learned an incredible amount from recording with Stevie in Detroit during the late '60s and early '70s. He could always tell if somebody came into or left the room. He has always recognized me decades later upon hearing one word out of my mouth and loves the confusion when his entourage don't have any idea who I am. That experience was compounded by my post production mentor during the '90s. He showed me that a mix that sounded incredible with no picture could fall flat on its face when you turned the picture on and the opposite was true of something mixed to picture. I don't think most people doing music videos realize they need to do a separate, dedicated mix. it's almost unreal to hear you guys talk about the experience of working with the King of Music, Stevie Wonder! It is my greatest music guru ever! It could be a topic for a new thread  |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 21, 2015 18:13:42 GMT -6
There is a completely blind fellow here in San Diego that rides a bike on city streets, he makes a clicking sound with his mouth for echo-location. He never hits anything. are you talking about this kid: |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 21, 2015 22:32:49 GMT -6
He is the hardest working person I've ever met.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 22, 2015 10:34:56 GMT -6
He plays hard too. He could beat just about anyone on that air hockey table that was down at Wonderland. It's collecting dust now at the Burbank warehouse.
I remember a day when we bought some porn books and Stevie would call friends and have the Kurtzwiel "book reader" speak out sexy porn into the phone sounding like a cylon. We split our sides that day.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 22, 2015 13:21:16 GMT -6
I only saw Wonderland once before they had moved in. I've only run into him at AES and NAMM shows.
My funniest moment was after he turned 21 and his contract had expired. There was a "hot line" in the control room which was a phone with no dial. He knew how to hook-switch calls and somebody had gotten him Clive Davis's private number at Columbia Records. Stevie only left a message but we were dying to know what would happen when they got that phone bill and figured out who the only call ever made on it was to. |
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