|
Post by wiz on May 23, 2015 20:10:45 GMT -6
Following on from the "Show Us Yer Mixing Skills Thread" I thought the next logical step, was summing and two buss tests. Link To Summing FilesIn that zip file above you will find 9 files. Each is a stereo mix down. They are 24 bit 96Kz files. The file is just over 1 Gig. The files are: 1. ITB mix of tracks. (This mix is how I like it. Just the raw tracks, with NO TOM tracks (so drums are just kick snare and overheads) Everything else is the same as the setup in the SHOW US YER MIXING skills thread (you can download the individual tracks there) 2. Soundcraft Delta Fully Modded Console. 8 channels into 2. Drums, Bass, Guitars, Vocals was the grouping used, with the pan knobs on the Delta set fully left and right. I ran test tones and matched everything up, the result is generally no more than a 1dB difference at any given time, differences in pan law not withstanding. (this aint easy to set up, so if you don't like it.. ) 3 - 7. Slate VCC mixes of each of their Console Emulations (VCC V1.0) No changes to input and output levels, and the calibration is set to -18 8. Waves Kramer Tape, Preset chosen was Mastering/Clean and Open and the RECORD LEVEL and PLAYBACK KNOBS were set to 0. 9. Slate VTM set to 30ips Normal Bias 1/2" 2 Track FG9 Input and Output knobs set to 12 O'clock (calibration level is -15) The idea being, you can import these tracks into your DAW, and have a listen to the differences, summing through the Delta makes, VCC vs ITB and Delta, the two Tape emulators etc etc. Also, I thought it would be great, as people can take the ITB mix and pass it through their favourite 2 buss colouring Outboard and post up the mix for people to hear.. for example.. the upcoming Silver Bullet, perhaps the Burl, Svarts box... VP28s , UADs Tape Emulators, Real Outboard Tape, etc whatever floats your boat. If someone wants to do a summing comparison download the original tracks from the other thread and then just pull the Tom tracks down to Zero Volume and you are good to go (after setting up the ITB panning and Level setting detailed in that thread). Original Thread with mixing filesWhen you do that, please try you settings vs mine by doing a null test of your set up of the tracks, vs the ITB mix. Should be fun, and interesting. cheers Wiz ************************************************************** Other Member submitted summing file links ************************************************************** ___________________________________ mjheckmjheck Universal Audio 2192
___________________________________
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 24, 2015 1:26:51 GMT -6
My Favourites - I like the Delta Sum Version, and I thought it interesting, that to me, the one that is closest to that is the Slate SSL version, I really notice the difference between ITB and Delta, with the backing vocals parts, and thought the SSL was the closest to the Delta in that regard
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on May 24, 2015 1:27:51 GMT -6
this is really cool! i'll dig in probably tomorrow night and give it a good listen, maybe i'll run it through a pair of VP28's and post it.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 24, 2015 1:29:09 GMT -6
this is really cool! i'll dig in probably tomorrow night and give it a good listen, maybe i'll run it through a pair of VP28's and post it. and one with red dots pleeeeeeeeaseeeee !!! 8) cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by mjheck on May 25, 2015 8:38:53 GMT -6
Neat idea, sir.
I downloaded it last night and will have a chance mid week to play along with my current two bus treatment to add to the discussion.
MJH
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on May 25, 2015 9:36:38 GMT -6
Sounds fun. I'll take a stab when I get a chance.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 25, 2015 17:39:44 GMT -6
I really hope this kind of thing takes off... Because the general consensus is that the tracking was pretty good, and the song isn't inducing vomiting... hopefully then it can become a sort of defacto standard for demo-ing gear here on this forum. People can have the original tracks, and a reference two mix, which is just the tracks with no 2 bus treatment summed in logic. Then they can apply what ever the want to whatever they want, the whole mix, just the bass track... or "Hey I replaced the snare drum, with the new drum software replacement program thingy..." Or they could replace a track in the song, with something, say the bass line, with something they want to demo to someone... for example... Dan built a new DI , he could put up two tracks, one with the bass going direct, and one through his new DI, and then people could download those two tracks, and plug them into the project and compare... Its never going to be perfect.. but it could be very beneficial. drbill BradM lets run that ITB mix through the new Silver Bullet for a start and demo up a few of its options.. that way folks on the list have something they can compare directly with their own stuff... Or that Wooly Mammoth thing that came out Johnkenn perhaps you could pass it through the B2 ? svart a trip in and out of your convertors perhaps? jsteiger maybe a couple of examples of the FC526's running on the two bus these are examples of things I think we would all love to hear, download and compare against the project files. If you do all these at 96Kz 24Bit and upload the files to dropbox then it demo's all these products in real world usage. I would also love a mix down with just the Briscasti... the only person I know who has one is jimwilliams any chance you could do it please? or if someone else owns one. cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2015 17:45:57 GMT -6
I can probably handle the Burl and the FC526's...although the 526's will be going through the Burl too.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2015 17:46:19 GMT -6
Want me to compress or just run it through?
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 25, 2015 17:50:53 GMT -6
I can probably handle the Burl and the FC526's...although the 526's will be going through the Burl too. That would be great Johnkenn very cool of you would love to hear it. cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 25, 2015 17:56:50 GMT -6
Want me to compress or just run it through? Thats going to be the thing, how people set them up.. I think contextually is the best. My suggestion, of course people can always do what they want, no rules 8).... But how I would like to hear it, is as you would use it in the mix... just dial it up to the best you can and perhaps leave it there, and just tell people what the settings were.. If you wanted and had the time, maybe a couple of settings, but personally that can be time consuming for the do - er, and I want this to be painless for everyone. If you have the time, do both, if you only have time, a little compression would be my choice, just as you would use them as a 2 buss comp. thanks John cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on May 25, 2015 18:10:16 GMT -6
I really hope this kind of thing takes off... Because the general consensus is that the tracking was pretty good, and the song isn't inducing vomiting... hopefully then it can become a sort of defacto standard for demo-ing gear here on this forum. People can have the original tracks, and a reference two mix, which is just the tracks with no 2 bus treatment summed in logic. Then they can apply what ever the want to whatever they want, the whole mix, just the bass track... or "Hey I replaced the snare drum, with the new drum software replacement program thingy..." Or they could replace a track in the song, with something, say the bass line, with something they want to demo to someone... for example... Dan built a new DI , he could put up two tracks, one with the bass going direct, and one through his new DI, and then people could download those two tracks, and plug them into the project and compare... Its never going to be perfect.. but it could be very beneficial. drbill BradM lets run that ITB mix through the new Silver Bullet for a start and demo up a few of its options.. that way folks on the list have something they can compare directly with their own stuff... Or that Wooly Mammoth thing that came out Johnkenn perhaps you could pass it through the B2 ? svart a trip in and out of your convertors perhaps? jsteiger maybe a couple of examples of the FC526's running on the two bus these are examples of things I think we would all love to hear, download and compare against the project files. If you do all these at 96Kz 24Bit and upload the files to dropbox then it demo's all these products in real world usage. I would also love a mix down with just the Briscasti...  the only person I know who has one is jimwilliams  any chance you could do it please? or if someone else owns one. cheers Wiz I've got a Wooly Mammoth that I can run through.
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on May 25, 2015 18:13:32 GMT -6
jcoutu1 - how long have you had the Wooly Mammoth? I'd love to hear.......
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on May 25, 2015 18:22:46 GMT -6
jcoutu1 - how long have you had the Wooly Mammoth? I'd love to hear....... Few months anyway. I'll see what I can do.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on May 26, 2015 11:46:59 GMT -6
My Favourites - I like the Delta Sum Version, and I thought it interesting, that to me, the one that is closest to that is the Slate SSL version, I really notice the difference between ITB and Delta, with the backing vocals parts, and thought the SSL was the closest to the Delta in that regard cheers Wiz If you want to hear some crazy stuff, flip the phase on the ITB track and play it along with the Delta Track. Really weird artifacts. Here's a clip... soundcloud.com/jessecoutu/fool-me-once-itbdelta-artifacts/s-gaSv2I set it as private (because I don't need random people checking this weird stuff out) so you've got click the link to listen.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on May 26, 2015 12:00:02 GMT -6
My Favourites - I like the Delta Sum Version, and I thought it interesting, that to me, the one that is closest to that is the Slate SSL version, I really notice the difference between ITB and Delta, with the backing vocals parts, and thought the SSL was the closest to the Delta in that regard cheers Wiz If you want to hear some crazy stuff, flip the phase on the ITB track and play it along with the Delta Track. Really weird artifacts. Here's a clip... soundcloud.com/jessecoutu/fool-me-once-itbdelta-artifacts/s-gaSv2I set it as private (because I don't need random people checking this weird stuff out) so you've got click the link to listen. this is why it's so hard to trust digital anything imv.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 19:52:43 GMT -6
OK, i did a few 2-bus saturations with ITB stuff most would/will never use, i guess, but for reference. So far, Cakewalk's ProChannel, A-, N- and S-Type, and Bootsie NastyVirtualSummingDevice. I gave a huge pound of saturation, you can use it much more subtle (i.e. full drive in the ProChannel, 6dB of saturation also on the NastyVSD here...). So you get an obvious idea what the general character is. Bootsie's freeware holds up pretty good for an outdated plug if you ask me. Cakies A-, N- and S-type relate seemingly to Trident A-Range, Neve and SSL kind of saturation. I use the N-Type quite often, in all channels and Busses in subtle amounts. Not as good as Harrison's Mixbus, but another flavour for what i do in the synth area. Link to zip full'o'flacs follows as soon as it's up. Interesting idea, i will most probably add others later. Already collecting all in one nice 2-bus/summing folder for reference. Very nice. www.dropbox.com/s/xf2z8xvmqh9fhh4/Fool%20Me%20Once%20Summing%20Tests.zip?dl=0.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 26, 2015 20:35:48 GMT -6
My Favourites - I like the Delta Sum Version, and I thought it interesting, that to me, the one that is closest to that is the Slate SSL version, I really notice the difference between ITB and Delta, with the backing vocals parts, and thought the SSL was the closest to the Delta in that regard cheers Wiz If you want to hear some crazy stuff, flip the phase on the ITB track and play it along with the Delta Track. Really weird artifacts. Here's a clip... soundcloud.com/jessecoutu/fool-me-once-itbdelta-artifacts/s-gaSv2I set it as private (because I don't need random people checking this weird stuff out) so you've got click the link to listen. Yeah, I have been trying to figure out whats going on there... I have a single sample Tick, which I use to align anything recorded back in. I line them up visually , by zooming right in and slip editing the Delta Track (note the only out of the box summing in my test). I have been trouble shooting for the last few hours trying to work it out.. I think its a bug in logic. Because I just had the F()*$Cking thing play through a couple of times whilst re doing the outboard sum mix, i recorded it back in, re aligned it to within a sample, and played it and it was good, replayed the project without changing anything, and that weird noise is back. I have Flex Pitch enabled on the vocal track (which is why I reckon its happening on that track) as I had tweaked a couple of notes out of tune in the original mix files, so people would have something to fix. I would ignore that the noise is there in null. I will keep troubleshooting and If I can fix It I will post a fixed version of the Delta Sum. Its only the vocal thats doing it... and its, I am pretty sure a logic pro X thing... so keep that in mind. cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 26, 2015 20:38:40 GMT -6
If you want to hear some crazy stuff, flip the phase on the ITB track and play it along with the Delta Track. Really weird artifacts. Here's a clip... soundcloud.com/jessecoutu/fool-me-once-itbdelta-artifacts/s-gaSv2I set it as private (because I don't need random people checking this weird stuff out) so you've got click the link to listen. this is why it's so hard to trust digital anything imv. Look ... I am more than prepared to cop it on the chin, if its me, and thats why i have spent hours and hours trying to chase this down.. I HATE THIS SHIT. Computers are really great and all that, but I am pretty sure this is a LOGIC PRO X thing, and not me, and this is the stuff that drives me nuts. I will of course, being a Type A personality (and No the A doesn't stand for acehole... 8) ) keep trying to sort it out... but its best to ignore it... and just compare mixes against each other... Damn it though , I am really grumpy that its happening. cheers WIz
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 26, 2015 20:40:25 GMT -6
OK, i did a few 2-bus saturations with ITB stuff most would/will never use, i guess, but for reference. So far, Cakewalk's ProChannel, A-, N- and S-Type, and Bootsie NastyVirtualSummingDevice. I gave a huge pound of saturation, you can use it much more subtle (i.e. full drive in the ProChannel, 6dB of saturation also on the NastyVSD here...). So you get an obvious idea what the general character is. Bootsie's freeware holds up pretty good for an outdated plug if you ask me. Cakies A-, N- and S-type relate seemingly to Trident A-Range, Neve and SSL kind of saturation. I use the N-Type quite often, in all channels and Busses in subtle amounts. Not as good as Harrison's Mixbus, but another flavour for what i do in the synth area. Link to zip full'o'flacs follows as soon as it's up. Interesting idea, i will most probably add others later. Already collecting all in one nice 2-bus/summing folder for reference. Very nice. <Link will follow HERE>. This is exactly what I hoped peeps would get out of it.. and its what I will do as well, keep a project dedicated to this and put other peoples mixes in there (which is why I asked for 96/24 files) and that way its a good way to compare the sound of stuff. People can also use the individual tracks for the same kinds of ideas... cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 26, 2015 21:19:02 GMT -6
My 526's are getting a calibration by Mr. Steiger - should have them tomorrow though.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on May 26, 2015 21:51:29 GMT -6
wiz, don't let the artifacts bother you. I just ran into it and thought it was weird. Almost like a built in subliminal message type thing. Just chalk it up to an oddity. My system only runs at 48k, so passing through some gear at 96 is out for me. I'll still run some 48k passes though FWIW.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 26, 2015 23:14:36 GMT -6
wiz, don't let the artifacts bother you. I just ran into it and thought it was weird. Almost like a built in subliminal message type thing. Just chalk it up to an oddity. My system only runs at 48k, so passing through some gear at 96 is out for me. I'll still run some 48k passes though FWIW. Hey thanks man 8) these types of things tend to drive me to distraction... cause usually it can end up in a shit fight... so I appreciate the comments.. Hey, 48 is cool.. I can just put the ITB mix into a new project and have it convert to 48... still better than soundcloud or mp3 eh LOL 8) thanks dude cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by mjheck on May 27, 2015 10:19:12 GMT -6
Afternoon Wiz,
I'm sure its been said before, but what a fine voice and delivery - never want to miss the important stuff while focusing on gear fun : ).
I'm in agreement on the benefits of the Delta - it does what one seems to always be chasing when leaving the box.
I've done a bounce through what now constitutes my basic two bus treatment - a round trip I/O pass through my trusty old 2192.
Conversion as a two bus treatment? It sounds as stupid now as it did when I first tried it, but something about its tone just does it for me.
I'm happy to add it to the pile for comparison.
Perhaps I can place it in Drop Box and invite you add whichever address you prefer, so you may grab it and admit at your convenience?
Not to make more work for you, but having these in one place sure seems awesome.
Thank you for taking the time to do this and share it with us.
Matt
|
|
|
Post by wiz on May 27, 2015 19:29:13 GMT -6
Afternoon Wiz, I'm sure its been said before, but what a fine voice and delivery - never want to miss the important stuff while focusing on gear fun : ). I'm in agreement on the benefits of the Delta - it does what one seems to always be chasing when leaving the box. I've done a bounce through what now constitutes my basic two bus treatment - a round trip I/O pass through my trusty old 2192. Conversion as a two bus treatment? It sounds as stupid now as it did when I first tried it, but something about its tone just does it for me. I'm happy to add it to the pile for comparison. Perhaps I can place it in Drop Box and invite you add whichever address you prefer, so you may grab it and admit at your convenience? Not to make more work for you, but having these in one place sure seems awesome. Thank you for taking the time to do this and share it with us. Matt Hey mjheckthanks for doing the listening, and adding to the fun Matt... really cool of you. I would love to hear the 2192, that was actually one of the devices I was thinking of when I did the test.. 8) As to me hosting it, I don't really have a huge amount of Dropbox space left, with the nearly 2 Gig of files I have up for this test atm.. Can you put it up on your drop box, and I will download it, and others can grab it from there, for a week or so, and then you can delete it. I will keep a copy here locally, and then later on if someone needed it I could put it back up on mine. I would like to leave the files (the multitracks, and the summed files) up for people for at least a couple of weeks.. I can edit my first post and put your drop box link in there, and anyone else, so people can always go to the first post to find anyone and everyones files... how does that work for you? cheers Wiz
|
|