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Post by Johnkenn on May 28, 2015 21:01:29 GMT -6
I literally can't take it...Gonna go get the 18's tomorrow. When I listened to them both at VK, I preferred the 18's...but I thought I could get by with the 15's...which I could...but what's the fun in that, right?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 28, 2015 22:14:33 GMT -6
The 18's are 3 better
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 28, 2015 23:09:39 GMT -6
Their better-ness is over 9000.
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Post by KJ on May 28, 2015 23:33:35 GMT -6
Their better-ness is over 9000.  |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 29, 2015 1:02:29 GMT -6
I literally can't take it...Gonna go get the 18's tomorrow. When I listened to them both at VK, I preferred the 18's...but I thought I could get by with the 15's...which I could...but what's the fun in that, right? Have you considered the amount of money you're investing might be better placed towards dialing in your room a bit more? maybe some more traps or something? Some functional wall art (large QRD) on the rear wall? |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 29, 2015 5:09:30 GMT -6
at least 20% right ?  I think you will find that not just the bass is different, so I am curious what you think ? |
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Post by svart on May 29, 2015 7:39:40 GMT -6
whats interesting to me is the diff in highend on the freq plot, the 18 seems more extended, and the 15 dives 5db in the air band, the low end on the 15 dives 5db at about 80hz, the 18 is nice all the way across, the slight dip at his beloved 2k gives us a clue to why JK is loving the 15 8) Looks familiar..  |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 9:42:42 GMT -6
I literally can't take it...Gonna go get the 18's tomorrow. When I listened to them both at VK, I preferred the 18's...but I thought I could get by with the 15's...which I could...but what's the fun in that, right? Have you considered the amount of money you're investing might be better placed towards dialing in your room a bit more? maybe some more traps or something? Some functional wall art (large QRD) on the rear wall? My room is fine. |
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Post by indiehouse on May 29, 2015 16:03:47 GMT -6
You get to mix any on the 15's before taking them back?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 18:53:13 GMT -6
I did - they were great. I returned the 15's and got the 18's though. These are right out of the box and I've read where people have said there's a "burn in" period. These are definitely more muscular...they feel more stiff if that makes any sense. There's nothing the 18's can't handle - no farting without the sub...the 15's were the VK demos, so they had been worked. They felt relaxed and punchy - I'm hoping these will feel a little more relaxed as they break in. These still have fantastic imaging, but I swear the 15's might have had a little better separation. Now, I could be imagining that because I was so struck by the 15's yesterday compared to the proacs. As far as mixing, I feel like I have a much better picture of the low mids and the top end.
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Post by tonycamphd on May 29, 2015 19:13:22 GMT -6
Have you considered the amount of money you're investing might be better placed towards dialing in your room a bit more? maybe some more traps or something? Some functional wall art (large QRD) on the rear wall? My room is fine. How is your room treated? I remember you were talking about doing some stuff, didn't know you did it though. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 19:27:35 GMT -6
Ok - so let's get this out in the open. I would assume you've talked to Charles, who talked to Dan who said my "room was not the best to listen in". That's fair enough. It wasn't designed by Carl Tatz. But it's 22 feet long, I have 6 inch thick 703 bass traps in every corner. I've also hung a cloud above the mixing position, have treatment to deal with flutter echoes and have the desk pulled out about two feet from the back wall. I would venture to say my room is more dialed in than many.
So - if I was taking this the wrong way, then forgive me, but I assumed the insinuation is that my opinions can be questioned because I "don't have the best room to listen in." I would beg to differ.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 19:32:16 GMT -6
I'm not singling you out Tony - I'm just saying that because it was pm'd to me and then two people suddenly asked me about my room treatment. Which - whether it was intended or not - is somewhat patronizing.
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Post by indiehouse on May 29, 2015 19:41:05 GMT -6
I did - they were great. I returned the 15's and got the 18's though. These are right out of the box and I've read where people have said there's a "burn in" period. These are definitely more muscular...they feel more stiff if that makes any sense. There's nothing the 18's can't handle - no farting without the sub...the 15's were the VK demos, so they had been worked. They felt relaxed and punchy - I'm hoping these will feel a little more relaxed as they break in. These still have fantastic imaging, but I swear the 15's might have had a little better separation. Now, I could be imagining that because I was so struck by the 15's yesterday compared to the proacs. As far as mixing, I feel like I have a much better picture of the low mids and the top end. Nice man! Yeah, there is a pretty definite difference once they get broke in. I think Anssi told me 60-75 hours with bass heavy material. I inverted the polarity and faced them in toward each other over the weekend when I burnt them in. They do become less stiff. Glad to hear the 18's are working for you. I found them to be slighty more relaxed, less punchy than the 15's, but stronger in the other areas you mentioned. Makes me wish my room could have handled them. They are so friggin' great. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 29, 2015 20:08:27 GMT -6
Ok - so let's get this out in the open. I would assume you've talked to Charles, who talked to Dan who said my "room was not the best to listen in". That's fair enough. It wasn't designed by Carl Tatz. But it's 22 feet long, I have 6 inch thick 703 bass traps in every corner. I've also hung a cloud above the mixing position, have treatment to deal with flutter echoes and have the desk pulled out about two feet from the back wall. I would venture to say my room is more dialed in than many. So - if I was taking this the wrong way, then forgive me, but I assumed the insinuation is that my opinions can be questioned because I "don't have the best room to listen in." I would beg to differ. To make a speaker work in your room you have to start over with position of speakers and sometimes because of this some treatment. The rules about placement are simply a starting point ! Remember,also different designs even from the same manufacturer can shine in different ways ! Different drivers even same drivers in different box sizes and types can and will exhibit different performance. It may just be breakin, but it might be they are just different not just bigger louder deeper. Been there done that oh so many times! |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 20:10:22 GMT -6
Not sure I understand. I think they sound fantastic...there's no problem with them working.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 29, 2015 20:21:20 GMT -6
No offense to anyone but John the only ears that matter are yours! color me green ! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 29, 2015 20:54:58 GMT -6
Not sure I understand. I think they sound fantastic...there's no problem with them working. I was being generic but trying to address your point of the little ones being more relaxed and your perception of the superior imaging of the smaller ones. I love hearing new speakers, I hate finding the right position. Really though you have to find the right position for a speaker and the treatment to find what it really can do. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 29, 2015 21:22:33 GMT -6
Ok - so let's get this out in the open. I would assume you've talked to Charles, who talked to Dan who said my "room was not the best to listen in". That's fair enough. It wasn't designed by Carl Tatz. But it's 22 feet long, I have 6 inch thick 703 bass traps in every corner. I've also hung a cloud above the mixing position, have treatment to deal with flutter echoes and have the desk pulled out about two feet from the back wall. I would venture to say my room is more dialed in than many. So - if I was taking this the wrong way, then forgive me, but I assumed the insinuation is that my opinions can be questioned because I "don't have the best room to listen in." I would beg to differ. Your mixes always sound good. Who gives a shit about anything else. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 21:44:58 GMT -6
Not sure I understand. I think they sound fantastic...there's no problem with them working. I was being generic but trying to address your point of the little ones being more relaxed and your perception of the superior imaging of the smaller ones. I love hearing new speakers, I hate finding the right position. Really though you have to find the right position for a speaker and the treatment to find what it really can do. Gotcha. yeah - angling them a little away from the listening position really widens the stereo image. Moreso than the 15's. |
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Post by tonycamphd on May 29, 2015 22:45:54 GMT -6
Ok - so let's get this out in the open. I would assume you've talked to Charles, who talked to Dan who said my "room was not the best to listen in". That's fair enough. It wasn't designed by Carl Tatz. But it's 22 feet long, I have 6 inch thick 703 bass traps in every corner. I've also hung a cloud above the mixing position, have treatment to deal with flutter echoes and have the desk pulled out about two feet from the back wall. I would venture to say my room is more dialed in than many. So - if I was taking this the wrong way, then forgive me, but I assumed the insinuation is that my opinions can be questioned because I "don't have the best room to listen in." I would beg to differ. A while back we had a few different discussions about a few complaints you had, and some diffuse/absorb ideas concerning your space, one of them was on the phone when we talked about the idea of dead ending the front. I saw where you said your room was "fine" and figured you did at least some stuff, I didn't talk to anyone but you about your room, nothing sinister about my Q, I just figured you did some stuff, and if I remember correctly, you didn't have 6" thick 703 traps or a cloud over your listening position last time we talked. No patronizing bro. |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 29, 2015 23:09:44 GMT -6
Ok...good to know. I've had those corner bass traps for several years...they're 6" thick, 2 foot x 4 foot. I think we talked about whether I should cover up the wall behind my desk...but I've got a big 4 inch thick baffle there now. I'm happy with how the room sounds - although I did have a room node when recording acoustics - but I think in that thread we figured out it was probably because I was recording with the two short walls perpendicular to me...not longways.
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Post by svart on May 30, 2015 11:06:07 GMT -6
Having been to John's house, I can say that his room is DEAD. I remember having to speak loudly because voices didn't carry in there!
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Post by kcatthedog on May 30, 2015 13:37:30 GMT -6
that's where he takes the complainers, to,, you know,, deal with them svart if there was any way you could get your speakers to John I for one would be really interested in that comparison !! |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 30, 2015 16:12:26 GMT -6
I read the mathematical starting point is 38% of the length of the room is the ideal position to place monitors. that'll eliminate the most null points. 2 feet from the front wall of a 23' room is definitely not 38% of the way. Correction: your ears should be located at the 38% point in the room: realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htmat the very least, it's worth testing out. Just mark your current monitor position so you can put them back if you don't find anything that sounds better :-) |
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