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Post by carymiller on May 18, 2015 22:12:38 GMT -6
I'm Bi-Polar, and OCD.
I take meds, have gone to therapy since my teens...etc. But music has always been a huge outlet for me.
For most of my life I've avoided talking about the reality of my mental health in the professional world we interact with, mainly due to a bad experience where I was stigmatized unfairly by co-workers who found out when I was younger. (Being cut out of the loop on a few higher profile jobs during that time-frame made me extremely guarded for over a decade.)
The thing is...I used to work too much to self-medicate. By always staying busy I didn't have the time to deal with my problems head on.
The past two years I've focused on time management and worked a lot less in order to step by step face a problem I can't resolve...the same with any other disease...I have to manage my condition.
This post isn't to rail about anything...just...more and more I've been thinking that artists, even those of us who bring artistry to the technical side of this industry...typically have something going on in the background. Addictive personalities, depression, etc. Many of the greats suffer from a condition in silence, or undiagnosed.
I guess I'm starting this thread to give people a place to talk if they need to. It's harder to discuss these things with people who have no experience with them...and getting support from friends and peers can make a huge difference when people are suffering.
If you have stories you want to share, or you're feeling burnt out...or maybe you're just living a bit too hard. Feel free to vent here and post...or message me. I've been there, more than once. And it's hard enough trying to make a living doing this without support or friends who get it.
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Post by ragan on May 19, 2015 10:46:37 GMT -6
Appreciate the honesty, mate.
I'm not professional so I don't have much to contribute about the "industry". I have had some serious battles with anxiety that led to a whole run around with cardiologists and docs. That has largely subsided, thank God. My family has some serious mental illness in it though so I know the territory pretty well. Never easy to navigate, for a myriad of reasons.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 19, 2015 11:14:41 GMT -6
I find it interesting when people talk about obsessive compulsive disorder or prefectionism but lets change topics and talk about mixing  Not making fun, but really saying all these characteristics are human characteristics, they are just have different emphasis in different people. As my no nonsense scottish Doctor says, tell me who is normal ? |
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Post by yotonic on May 19, 2015 19:24:35 GMT -6
Well I know all drummers are crazy, and most singers are narcissists:) but it is true that the most talented people I have met in the creative arts have had an empathy that is super sized usually by a touch of, or a full portion of something from the DSM-5. That's why managers have a job, and girlfriends, accountants, divorce attorneys, producers...
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 17:28:55 GMT -6
I have been asked before why i am retired already, and actually i did what Cary said about self-medication with work...
I have been diagnosed bipolar type I in the age of 39, and had been bipolar since i was 20 when i had my first mania. I suffered from depressions and general anxiety disorder before already. Dealt with it on my own my whole life, which lead to an early invalidity at the age of 45. So i have to say it is not "just a personality thing", or "who is normal anyway", but in many cases a severe mental illness, bipolar has the highest mortality of all mental illnesses due to the high suicide rate.
I can only recommend to everybody who is suffering from depressions, other affective states or mental disorders to take the opportunity to get to a doctor, get himself diagnosed and in a therapy that fits in his life circumstances and don't be afraid of meds. And, of course, stay away from street drugs and alcohol for self-medication.
My 2 cent from own experience.
Since now, i managed to never been hospitalized ever, nowadays i manage to get away with a medication that i can control on my own, i know all strategies to deal with it and regularly help other affected persons in forums and on phone and skype since i am out of the regular working process after my last severe depression (1 year long).
There are alot of people with different mental illnesses in the creative media businesses, musicians, actors, producers, but also techs and engineers. Most probably more, than in other businesses. Which is not surprising, actually...
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2015 13:38:22 GMT -6
Guys I feel you , PTSD here with a Kid with PTSD post hurricane Ike !
When you think of how many great artists of all genres have some kind of mental Health issues It almost feels like its a job requirement !
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 14:15:40 GMT -6
Actually, that's not so far from reality.
Especially in creative jobs you often need an obsessive behaviour that sometimes is far from beeing healthy. Also, staying with this obsession in times, where you put alot of work and money into it, without getting money out, staying tuned to dreams with very little chances to come true, all this is not what you call rational, reasonable or sane most of the time. This may be one reason you find quite alot of people with mental disorders in the creative businesses. I forgot the writers, btw...
Even in the semi-professional league they seem to condense somehow...
Also, people with mental disorders often have different ways to perceive reality, which *can* lead to other grades of creativity, more unique expression, exaggerated possibilities to transport emotions that give a clearer, bigger picture of what people feel and can relate to.
Last but not least, creativity is a highly effective way to deal with many mental disorders, like a self-medication or self-therapy. Music always connected me to normal people, was a kind of integrative moment, where you actually get applause for beeing different than others...
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Post by yotonic on Jun 8, 2015 17:31:26 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2015 20:59:57 GMT -6
Man, I hear you. This business is hard. And people don't get it. And it's literally the worst thing you can get into if you struggle with depression, self doubt, anxiety, etc. If I had a dime for every time someone told me, "You can't let it get to you - it's business, not personal..." Well, no...it's the most personal thing in the world to me. I live with constant "no's" in this business - and there are times I just want to give up. Then you see your contemporaries having insane success - but it isn't happening to you. People say, "well, that happens in every business." But that's not necessarily true - in most businesses, hard work equals success. That is absolutely NOT the case in this business. Anyway, this is more to say that I understand, not to complain. It's good to have an outlet and have support. Maybe this thread can help with that.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 9, 2015 21:14:34 GMT -6
I think everybody has to manage their mental health, and very few are spared from any anxiety and depression. I now that some face more severe battles than others. That being said, the one certainty I know is that if you're in music for money or fame, you're doomed. All you can do is be satisfied that you can create to the best of your ability and let life take it's course. Know where the line is when what you love (music) turns into some kind of monster and do not cross it.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 9, 2015 21:35:20 GMT -6
Cary,
Thanks for bringing up this subject.
Can I first say I've always enjoyed your posts on the other site, and am glad you've joined here. You always seemed to give your opinions without giving the impression that you felt yours was the last word on the subject. It was never "if you disagree with me, you're wrong." It was always trying to pass on your experiences honestly and humbly. And again, I want to thank you for that because there wasn't necessarily a lot of that around there sometimes. I felt like you'd be an excellent teacher. Still do!
I'm not really in the industry - hobbyist, so a lot of the pressures the pros are under don't affect me directly. Doesn't mean I'm not immune from mental health issues. I'm about a year into a deepish depression (hospitalized once briefly) related to my divorce. This is the third one that's been diagnosed and there probably could have been others. My kid is on the autism spectrum, and though he is high functioning, it ain't easy. He's also really like a little me, albeit maybe a bit more extreme.
The result of all that is that recording, playing, all that stuff - well, I come on here and read about it and occasionally post something. But for now it just isn't something I can devote all that much energy to. Sucks.
But I now see potential autism or similar in a lot of descriptions of musicians. Just watched the Ginger Baker doc. Gets obsessed with stuff, ignores social obligations and social norms? Sounds like classic Aspergers to me. Or, he could just be a total .... Smack'll do that to you.
That singular focus can sometimes be a great thing.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 21:46:35 GMT -6
Actually, it's very important to see the difference between normal emotions and reactions on external triggers and signs of real illnesses.
Beeing sad or anxious can be totally normal or in the range of healthy reactions to disappointing events in life, like not getting a job, having financial problems, getting negative critics, family problems etc...
At the time you begin seriously to suffer and the symptoms don't go away over a longer period of time, listen to what people around you tell you, especially if they mention that your behaviour has seriously changed. You may not beeing aware of beeing already in a state of mental illness that needs medical care.
It is definitely *not* normal to have depressions or a anxiety *disorder*. It's not the same as beeing anxious about a situation where this is normal, or having some bad days. It is true that these disorders are the most common, but only one out of three people experience at least one real depression in life. Most people do *not*.
Most people affected have their first and only depression as a teenager, due to the change of hormones which weakens mental stability, others during the climacteric or in form of a mid-life crisis.
Still, if it's a depression, it is an illness that should be taken care of professionally. Despite of fears of beeing stigmatized or whatever. Untreated depressions tend to manifest themselves and get worse or happen more often. There is also a point of no return with these affective disorders, after which there is only treatment, but no healing possible. Just this fact should get people to a doctor, if in doubt about your condition...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 22:05:50 GMT -6
Btw., i am pretty surprised that nobody mentioned a very common problem especially in music business: substance abuse and addiction.
While it is oftenly used to get over symptoms of e.g. anxiety or depression, it is a pretty severe problem for mental health itself...
And from my experience *very* common. Alcohol, cannabis, but also speed, cocaine and harder drugs were pretty much omnipresent in large parts of the musician scenes where i have been...
In nearly every band i've been in there was at least one guy who had a serious alcohol or drug addiction problem...
I guess it is so common, that nobody even came to the idea to mention this here yet...me included.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2015 22:19:02 GMT -6
Perspective is such an important thing...Even this thread is serving as a reminder to keep things in the proper perspective. Health, Family, God (of your choice lol) - those are the important things. I struggle with living in fear - the what if's. What if this job ends? What if I never get another song on the radio? What if I don't reach the place that I thought I would reach? What if I've chased the wrong rabbit so to speak...? But those are all job related. I have a wonderful wife. I have a wonderful daughter. I have a home over my head. I have my health. Part of keeping my sanity is to remember to keep that perspective - and I more often than not don't do a very good job of it.
Thanks for bringing this up, Cary - this is an important subject. I definitely wanted this place to be less about measuring...ahem...resumes and more about honest opinions and respectful discussion...but this subject might even help people - imagine that!
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 29, 2015 19:33:06 GMT -6
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure all creatives are tormented. How could we not be? We are given the task of examining the human condition under a microscope. That's an ugly business.
It might even be true that the greater the creative, the more the torment. Insert any name you wish here. Hemingway comes to mind for me.
No one on this site is alone in these feelings. We ALL have them.
I've often wished that I had been born without the need to create art. Those that are born without this need are the lucky ones in my estimation.
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Post by ragan on Jul 29, 2015 20:47:50 GMT -6
. I've often wished that I had been born without the need to create art. Those that are born without this need are the lucky ones in my estimation. No way, Herbie! The lowest valleys of makin music are better than the highest peaks of a life not doin what you love to do and you damn well know it, brother! |
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 8, 2015 10:00:55 GMT -6
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure all creatives are tormented. How could we not be? We are given the task of examining the human condition under a microscope. That's an ugly business. It might even be true that the greater the creative, the more the torment. Insert any name you wish here. Hemingway comes to mind for me. No one on this site is alone in these feelings. We ALL have them. I've often wished that I had been born without the need to create art. Those that are born without this need are the lucky ones in my estimation. I can't believe how closely this resembles me. I see other people who seem to be happy without having to create anything. If I don't play my guitar or write songs I have no way of releasing all that angst inside. Playing has always been an outlet and therapy for me. Whenever there was shit going on at home (there was a lot of it) I cranked that amp up and wailed. Please don't take me as a whiner or a "poor me" type of guy - I have more gratitude and perspective than almost anyone I know only second to my buddy (and boss) who kicked cancer's ass at the age of 32. Just for reference - Been depressed but emotionally strong my entire life. Spent an entire decade doing hard drugs and drank even harder. Developed an allergic reaction to alcohol but kept drinking anyway. My throat would start to close up making it hard to breathe and I would break out in hives (sometimes). Woke up way hung over a couple days after my 30th birthday the morning after getting thrown out of my favorite bar/music venue for being fallen down/blackout drunk and almost getting killed by a group of very seriously bad-ass dudes at a hard rock show. Quit everything that day and have never gone back....... On 2 different depression meds now and my life has never been this good. I'm healthy, motivated and always learning something new. The only thing I want is a nice home studio (nothing lavish) with a tracking room that sounds good. Already have everything else. Edit: has anyone heard from Cary lately? I miss his helpfulness around here! carymiller - you out there dude? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 8, 2015 11:51:36 GMT -6
Such an interesting post, thanks Cary, thanks guys.
I can't even begin to describe my life and how I landed where I am. I've had ten lifetimes worth of surgeries, broken bones, pain, suffering and loss, and I've thought about it from every angle. Hell, I've actually died twice and came back. Eventually, it comes down to the task your spirit is engaged in, and if it takes such things to awaken you, that's how it goes. Every terrible thing I've endured came with a gift. In the end, all you take with you is the way you've treated others.
I can't reveal everything just yet, but there was a moment, after 3 major, and I mean MAJOR surgeries in a 48 hour period, where I felt myself passing away, I'd surrendered to my situation, and surprisingly, my conscience was clear. At that precise second, I willed myself to stand up, although it was physically supposed to be impossible, and decided to pull myself along the wall or crawl along the floor of the hospital to go to the bathroom. In that split second, I felt I wasn't done yet, and it was the unfinished music that was my primary motivation to survive.
It took twelve years to fully recover, and I was forced to leave my musical career behind. During that time, I taught music to children. I believe a few of them will be future movers and shakers of the world. I live in Manhattan, and many of the kids I've taught were from the most prominent families, and were clearly being groomed for big things. I feel my contribution to those children might make a difference in how they behave when they're adults, and in charge of things.
Had I not survived, I never would have ridden a Harley Davidson, seen an American eagle in flight, met my lovely wife, rescued the most beautiful puppy in the world, written any of the songs you've all heard, or shared a note with so many of the wonderful and talented musicians here.
I've come to understand that my spirit needs to overcome my desire to avoid judgement and being seen, and just put my work out there. The support and help I've received from so many of you has been a big part of my finding my way through, so thanks guys.
Oh, and Cary, try not to worry too much, you're great knowledge of audio engineering and music, and your willingness to help others will carry you through.
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Post by b1 on Aug 8, 2015 13:58:21 GMT -6
I can empathize with everything written here and don't in any way scoff at the struggles or remedies others have found to be of use. I grew up surrounded by negative forces which greatly affected my being. As a result I took the low road which led to addictions and ultimately suicidal tendencies. Having found Christ Jesus at an earlier age before the woes encompassed me, I had a reference point that always stuck with me of the Power of God's Spirit being an actual Living Entity that caused a stirring in me that will never be forgotten or could ever be replicated by any tangible substances; or even lifestyles. But living in a visual/sensual world, that became a way I turned to instead of the wholesomeness I had once experienced.
To cut to the "cure" for me. Even though years ago I had been heavily "medicated", both prescribed and un-prescribed to forget or even lessen my ills, I finally found courage to return to The God of my salvation. Once I made a concerted effort to be the person that was outside of my own ability, I was restored my sanity and refocused on God's desires rather than my own. I know it sounds so cliche and trivial to try and describe something that can't be seen, but the relief and continual joy, coupled with positivity in all of life's aspects is practically more elation than a flesh frame can "endure". My only regret is that I didn't wise up much sooner in life. That would have saved me from a lot of self-inflicted misery. We can be our own worst enemy. It's now such a daily/nightly comfort to realize that this life is a stepping stone that can be overcome rather than endured. That stepping stone can be slippery or a sure footing. I found the Rock of Ages to be the love of my life which gave me my first love - true love. Nothing could ever replace that relationship.
Through that "cure", the music got better and life finally become sweet. Come what may, God always wins; which means "I" never lose. The storms come, just like on anyone else, but I have repeated assurance that I come through still on the Rock. I have continual remembrance of some passages from the Texts (paraphrased): "Being thankful for the joyfulness and gladness of heart for the abundance of all things"... "if I live, I am The Lords' - if I die I am The Lords'. Whether I live or die I am therefore The Lords'"... "We are in The Lords' hand and none can snatch us out"... Also "Luke 10: 17-22".... I've found these to be true and faithful sayings.
Years ago, the hardcore Harley lifestyle got put in a box in the basement. I look at it as I walk by and thank my God that I survived it - overcame it. Peace, love and hope to all who think that man can give us the remedy. All of mankind is but a drop in a bucket filled with a blindfolded mass of confusion. There is a better conclusion and intended hopeful expectation for us all. All it takes is courage to be different, and to be a peculiar soul in the eyes of the world. But, you will know the secrets of the ages hidden from the eyes of those who desire to see it with their eyes. Faith and trust in God is the only answer given for all souls.
This is the last on this subject you will ever hear from me in this open forum. I do sort of abide by "to each his own" which is a compromise of "agree to disagree", although I know better and am assured the Truth of all things through God's Wisdom contained in Scriptures; that, I found to be current and timely at every step. I gave up music for a couple of years because it paled in comparison to Scriptures. That was the food for the soul that was always absent through my "lean" years - those years that I allowed to nearly killed me...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 20:05:19 GMT -6
Hi guys,
just a side note. Spiritual things are like poison to me and strenghten my illness more than anything else. After a long decade of hard manic and depressive episodes in my twenties i said goodbye to drugs, alcoholic excessive behaviour, most of night life and instead worked as hard as i could, tried to stay rational as my main stabilizer.
Another decade later, i was diagnosed and wemt on to count on medication. Best step in my life probably.
Nowadays i am an atheist, but have been intensely committed to religious ideas before. Read everything, the bible, the koran, even LaVey, i was also a rosicrucian for some time.
I looked for a cure, that could not be found there.
What i needed was medical treatment....go figure...
And beeing rational is the best thing to try to stay mentally healthy. For me, religious ideas did lead me away from this. This may be a personal thing, but many bipolar fellows i met told me the same, often, before actual phases of illness they had great religious ideas, some of them "saw god", felt like prophets and similar. Not unusual in psychotic states at all. So i turned my back to religious ideas. Of course, this is a very personal thing and everyone should make his very own decisions about what he believes in.
But the main reason for this post is something else.
After 4 yrs. of merely a light to medium acceptible mostly depressive state, my bipolar illness got me again in a switch.
I am in the beginning of a hard manic phase, and struggle hard to fight it. Hard medication since yesterday evening. Went to the doctor and she instantly saw the state of mind, i did not even have to tell her what's going on. It was obvious. Highly active, wide eyes, extremely nervous and awake, energetic to the max.
I nearly forgot about this, it was 2x a year in the old times, but i had a vacation from this for 4 yrs., nearly the illusion it will never come back.
I will take a vast amount of medication the next week to not allow this to break through, and therefore i hope for your tolerance in case i behave strange in the next weeks. In the best case i will not be as responsive as i am normally, which would be a sign that the medication works. In worst case i might step on somebody's nerves or behave inappropriately. If this will be the case, drop me a PM so i have a feedback about this and can up my medication. In the absolutely worst case, if i behave too strange, don't hesitate to freeze my member account for a while until i am back to normal. I hope it will not happen, but everything is possible. So i make this announcemt while i still am in the beginning of this episode.
Thanks for your time, guys. You are an awesome bunch of talented people. It's a great pleasure and opportunity for me to be part of this forum and i enjoy it very much.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 10, 2015 20:18:16 GMT -6
Everyone here wishes the best for you smallbutfine. Let us know how you're doing if you can.
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 11, 2015 3:11:24 GMT -6
@smallbutfine - really pulling for you and hope the docs can get your bipolar under control quickly. It must be incredibly disheartening to have an episode after feeling so good for a couple years, I'm very glad you're aware of your state of mind and have gotten help so quickly. Please let us know how you're doing and I wish you the speediest of recoveries!!
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 11, 2015 11:51:57 GMT -6
wow Martin, sorry to hear of this, keep strong and take the steps you know will work for you, you are an absolute gem of a guy, we are lucky to have you here, keep us posted on your progress buddy.
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Post by ragan on Aug 11, 2015 13:21:00 GMT -6
Damn, smallbutfine. Sorry to hear. Stay strong and do what you need to do. You will get through it. And may it be sooner rather than later.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 6:38:43 GMT -6
Thanks guys.
Because i intervented really early, my medication knocked me out on the second day. Which is a good thing. Slept ~20 hours from yesterday to today. Feeling dizzy, but not manic at all anymore. Will see, how it develops the next days, but this is already a clear sign, that the meds do their work and i may be back to my normal doses soon.
Also, there is a new fine-tuned medication planned, so i will not stay in suboptimal too depressive constant state afterwards, because this might have caused the switch to mania in the end. I am looking forward, happy, that i didn't let it run and went straight for help. This always saves me from beeing hospitalized or doing really silly things....
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Not making fun, but really saying all these characteristics are human characteristics, they are just have different emphasis in different people. As my no nonsense scottish Doctor says, tell me who is normal ?
