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Post by mrholmes on Apr 20, 2015 20:08:52 GMT -6
I still can hear great records made today....? Can you elaborate this to me? Most of the great sounding records coming out today are made on that 40+ year old gear, is my point, there is a brutal edge to an awful lot of today's releases. There is no great sounding modern gear?? If I listen to the old Beatles with all the Tape hiss I have my doubts about the so called great vintage gear..... The truth is that they tracked stellar arrangements with great musicians.... And that would even sound good with modern gear.... I would agree on that gear can sound diffrent, but I disagree that everything from yesteryear was a god send. I do rember awful stories from profesinals much older than me....
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 20, 2015 20:55:27 GMT -6
Most of the great sounding records coming out today are made on that 40+ year old gear, is my point, there is a brutal edge to an awful lot of today's releases. There is no great sounding modern gear?? If I listen to the old Beatles with all the Tape hiss I have my doubts about the so called great vintage gear..... The truth is that they tracked stellar arrangements with great musicians.... And that would even sound good with modern gear.... I would agree on that gear can sound diffrent, but I disagree that everything from yesteryear was a god send. I do rember awful stories from profesinals much older than me.... I didn't say that, i would certainly take the tape hiss with all the great that stands ahead of it. I said the most coveted gear today is all 40+ years old, I don't think that's very debatable, though I'm sure someone will try 8)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 21:25:52 GMT -6
I think it is more about possibilities nowadays vs. necessities 40 yrs ago. Yesteryears gear had to be made with serious amounts of technical efforts to reach the specs broadcast demanded. And this was seriously expensive. Go figure the noise specs of modern converters, also the specs of modern opamps and transistors/transistor arrays, and see the costs of good neutral i.e. *not* coloring audio transformers. Yeah, we love the sound of these old gear because of it's distinct sounds, it's coloring, we miss the nonlinearities of the old tube record player in the livingroom, when we were young, and it was full of those telefunken tubes that costed just a few deutschmarks .... But definitely, the sound of these old units are used as a creative effect, a mojo machine for adding stuff or nostalgically record "like in the old days". Not because it is just the best and most transparent thing we got... C'mon Tony, what kind of opamps are in your console? Not 40 yrs. old designs, are they? Hehehe... :-D
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 21, 2015 6:39:56 GMT -6
I think it is more about possibilities nowadays vs. necessities 40 yrs ago. Yesteryears gear had to be made with serious amounts of technical efforts to reach the specs broadcast demanded. And this was seriously expensive. Go figure the noise specs of modern converters, also the specs of modern opamps and transistors/transistor arrays, and see the costs of good neutral i.e. *not* coloring audio transformers. Yeah, we love the sound of these old gear because of it's distinct sounds, it's coloring, we miss the nonlinearities of the old tube record player in the livingroom, when we were young, and it was full of those telefunken tubes that costed just a few deutschmarks .... But definitely, the sound of these old units are used as a creative effect, a mojo machine for adding stuff or nostalgically record "like in the old days". Not because it is just the best and most transparent thing we got... C'mon Tony, what kind of opamps are in your console? Not 40 yrs. old designs, are they?40 Hehehe... :-D Understood, but there is something far less fatiguing about the old style of listening to my ears, which lets me enjoy listening to music longer, does that make it better? To me it does, as far as op amps go, I'd trade my modern op amp console for Wally's API in a happy heartbeat 8) For a mid level studio such as mine, I'd rather be in today's gear, if I had the dream studio, it would have very few modern pieces in it. JMO
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 21, 2015 8:44:30 GMT -6
What cowboy said, exactly.
Me, honestly, in my head I just said ahh fuck you, what do you know anyway to the article writer.
i tried the Burl for a week, the BLA Micro Clock for a week, and have briefly heard some of my tracks under high end conditions, and believe me, the difference was between sounding like a great demo, or a possible record. Pro is pro, sorry if that bugs some folks.
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Post by matt on Apr 21, 2015 8:52:35 GMT -6
There is something very seductive about digital technology and how it's evolving. Just look how people upgrade their phones as soon as possible (guilty as charged). Does the old phone work? Yes - BUT - it's not as fast, not as big, not as advanced. Everyone knows that newer is better, right? Maybe, maybe not, but it's what we believe. That's what all the marketing hype tells us. The confusing thing is that the hype is often backed up by real change - the new version is bigger, faster, better, and obviously so. Oh, and the old phone (or thing, for this thread, a digital converter!) is not as sexxxy as the new model. This one gets me, every time. So when I look at a product like the Pure 2, it's like courting a new girlfriend. I want it. Now. This, my friends, is the underlying driver of GAS. The desire to possess, to use. And then throw away. Or endlessly collect (that's me).
I love my Burls, but the eye wanders, searching for that incremental bump in hotness. And what is hotness? As the old aphorism goes, "Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder".
I want new monitors, too. Now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 8:56:06 GMT -6
Sure. Btw. we will finally cable our entry level Soundtracs Topaz console for mixing on thursday and i am already pretty anxious about the amount of analog obstacles and noise we will be facing, it collected dust for a few yrs. now...nowbody knows how this will turn out now... Sure we might love the old stuff for nostalgic reasons, it's analog behaviour, saturation or for the familiar workflow (if you have been raised with analog gear and gainstaging...). But i happily take best of both worlds and combine stuff. Also, at some point, i will figure out harrison mixbus under linux with control surface steering and see, how much i love that really (and sure it *will* get some love, because i already highly admire how their UI reacts like an analog piece of gear, even with mouse twiddling....). Will see....
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Post by jimwilliams on Apr 21, 2015 9:01:38 GMT -6
With great mics and cutting edge preamps already in the gear bag, conversion was always the last and most important link in the chain only because it was the variable, the other stuff is already as close to perfect as one might want.
Since the early 1990's I used eval pcb's from the chip manufacturers to "encode" my CD's. I would buy them as soon as the ADC part was released and then I would rework the analog sections to taste. That way I always had the "latest and greatest" ADC technology. Yes, it made a huge difference over the sound I heard on commercial releases.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 9:07:35 GMT -6
And for the converter thing, i may happily stop converter GAS for half a decade or a full one, if it turns out just as good, as it is now in the quasi honeymoon phase, for a longer time. It is tools. Sure, i sometimes just buy a new screwdriver because i just see it in the hardware store, not needing it, but see, it has a different grip, it is black and red and .... But my ebay account stays very cold for some time now. Which i consider a good thing... Lots of things to do with the stuff i already own...
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Post by RicFoxx on Apr 21, 2015 9:59:23 GMT -6
Converters are not the problem anymore, it's the understanding of how to work in a digital world. Old gear can sound great but can be a pain in the butt. It seems there are a lot of modern classics to be had. Times haves changed and there is so much information about everything. Why have a great converter in a sub par room...that would be like taking a picture of a piece of shit with the most expensive camera in a poorly lit room.
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Post by mjheck on Apr 21, 2015 12:11:48 GMT -6
One of my first posts here described testing I did last summer using a three way splitter to compare different conversion as well as analog components versus digital simulations.
While I agree that the source and mic are clearly paramount, I was surprised that the conversion mattered more to the quality than the preamp selection - at least as far as those being tested.
Yeah, it matters. Kind of a lot - a least as far as how hard you have to work to achieve your standard.
MJH
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 12:35:20 GMT -6
This is seriously the best way to find out if it matters. Trying out experimentally if it matters to you with your existing equipment. Best would be ABX testing, same day, same weather, same situation, same mood, same pair of ears...you get the point... If you need days or weeks to find out something sounds better, it is very likely that it is expectation, something psychological rather than everything else.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 21, 2015 13:27:16 GMT -6
I tested out a symphony and an Orion 32 last year for a week each, they sounded pretty different to me on larger track counts, I liked the symph better than Orion, but neither compared to my current rig to my ears, I'm hoping the RM rig( due to be arriving shorty?) will surpass all... Please!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 21, 2015 13:56:46 GMT -6
I tested out a symphony and an Orion 32 last year for a week each, they sounded pretty different to me on larger track counts, I liked the symph better than Orion, but neither compared to my current rig to my ears, I'm hoping the RM rig( due to be arriving shorty?) will surpass all... Please! April 1 right?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 14:04:49 GMT -6
Oh, how evil. Hahahaha!
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Post by mdmitch2 on Apr 21, 2015 14:38:22 GMT -6
I think that it's in the best financial interest of sites like Recording Revolution as well as gear magazines and gear manufacturers to perpetuate the concept that anyone can make 'hit records' with inexpensive gear. Most companies sell a boatload more low end gear than high end, and buying low end gear can be a 'gateway drug' to buying the more expensive stuff (ask me how I know). And of course what's good for the manufacturers is good for ad revenue in magazines/websites....
It is true that great records can be made with cheap gear, but it sure is easier with the nice stuff.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 21, 2015 14:55:19 GMT -6
It is true that great records can be made with cheap gear, but it sure is easier with the nice stuff. I would say that a great record can be made in spite of cheap gear.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 21, 2015 15:06:38 GMT -6
I tested out a symphony and an Orion 32 last year for a week each, they sounded pretty different to me on larger track counts, I liked the symph better than Orion, but neither compared to my current rig to my ears, I'm hoping the RM rig( due to be arriving shorty?) will surpass all... Please! April 1 right? Nope, I gave him more time because he made major upgrades for no charge, and I'm north/east till may 5th 8)
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 21, 2015 15:43:42 GMT -6
April 1 right? Nope, I gave him more time because he made major upgrades for no charge, and I'm north/east till may 5th 8) Busting your balls brother. You should extend the vacation to RI for a couple extra days. Smoking show at Chan's on May 8.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 21, 2015 17:00:25 GMT -6
I like to pick my gear from all decades.... and not because its old... I was about to buy an 1176, before I did it a friend borrowed me one. Everyone likes this unit, it was not meant for me..... if a piece of gear does not work for me, it goes. I do not care about vintage, or anything else. It can be cheap it can be expensive like hell.... it can be hw or sw but it has to help me to get the sound which is in my head.....
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