kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2015 14:09:54 GMT -6
Yours are ported right ?
Did the bass on the amphion sound tighter and better for mixing or woudl it be personal preference ?
both off the lex amps ?
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Post by svart on Oct 6, 2015 14:50:41 GMT -6
Yours are ported right ? Did the bass on the amphion sound tighter and better for mixing or woudl it be personal preference ? both off the lex amps ? Yeah both off the same amp. Mine are ported, theirs are passive radiator. The ports allow much lower frequency extension, but I can't say that the Amphions sounded any tighter. Passive radiators are a taste thing, and I'm not much for them honestly, but I don't think the Amphions were bad by any means. John runs his with a sub, and they absolutely need it IMHO. Mine benefited from the sub but I'm pretty sure that they don't *need* a sub for mixing. |
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Post by svart on Oct 6, 2015 14:51:54 GMT -6
So we shot these out against Johnkenn 's Amphions while ericn and I listened. Actually I'm pretty surprised that they held up rather nicely. A little different throughout, but nonetheless performed well. A few things I noticed, the Amphions had less extended highs than mine. The aluminum tweeters have a sharp point in the very high end, Amphion must have removed that. I softened mine, but didn't remove it completely. Also, mine still have some mild midrange bump going on. Not quite NS-10 like, but more than the amphions. Mine definitely have more low end than the 18's. I'm pretty happy except for the midrange. it's useful in the same way NS-10's are, things that have any midrange problems get noticed really quick, although I think I want to "fix" the bump just a little more. I think Eric and I agreed that the Amphion waveguides seem to smooth out a lot of issues that folks generally have in small rooms, which might be part of the reason why folks love them so much. So John isn't selling his Amphion pair... I dunno, you'd have to ask him. I think his opinion was the midrange was too pointy for his taste as well. Once I fix that, I think these will be great contenders.. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 6, 2015 18:03:32 GMT -6
So John isn't selling his Amphion pair... I dunno, you'd have to ask him. I think his opinion was the midrange was too pointy for his taste as well. Once I fix that, I think these will be great contenders.. I heard from E that your converters and MK47 sounds great also, did you do anything special to your MK47? Whats going on in JK's room? did you hear any response problems? |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2015 18:28:55 GMT -6
I think a passive radiator and a port affect how the bass sounds too ? You know, its not just a matter of how low the freq are that are reproduced but their sound quality and balance with the rest of the monitors' response ? kind of like arguing about different flavours of darp chocolate, though !  |
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Post by svart on Oct 6, 2015 20:06:34 GMT -6
I dunno, you'd have to ask him. I think his opinion was the midrange was too pointy for his taste as well. Once I fix that, I think these will be great contenders.. I heard from E that your converters and MK47 sounds great also, did you do anything special to your MK47? Whats going on in JK's room? did you hear any response problems? Yeah, I think he was skeptical at first, but the converter made a believer out of him..! Anyway, I didn't do anything special with the U47. I used a blueline, Soviet era NOS PIO output cap and Teflon capsule cap. I used the large AMI transformer and did not use a relay at all. My mic is cardioid only. For the power supply I used a different setup. I used a transformer much closer to the HV voltage, and used lower resistor ratings and more stages to smooth everything out. Shannon listened to it and remarked at how silent it was.. And I used a couple WE408 tubes I got online for like 10$. That's pretty much it. I didn't tune anything or do anything special. I also think the total was around 650-700$ but I didn't use a replica body or anything. Just a 30$ generic mic body. As for John's room. It's dead. He's got it pretty well covered in absorption because of the weird angles of the ceiling. It's probably a little too dead for my personal taste, but I don't think he has any real problems in there now. |
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Post by svart on Oct 6, 2015 20:19:53 GMT -6
I think a passive radiator and a port affect how the bass sounds too ? You know, its not just a matter of how low the freq are that are reproduced but their sound quality and balance with the rest of the monitors' response ? kind of like arguing about different flavours of darp chocolate, though ! Of course! A passive radiator has all kinds of benefits and also detriments. I can't possibly list them all but there are folks on both sides that love and hate them for all kinds of reasons. Personally I tend to dislike them because a lot of manufacturers use passive radiators that are much too small to be of any use and only cause poor woofer response. Typically you want radiators with volume displacement equal to 2x (or greater) displacement than the maximum displacement of the woofer(s). This makes the passive radiators very large or very loose. Both can have issues with group delay, or a phenomenon called "passive notch" or "radiator notch" when the compliance volume (how much air is moved by how loose or tight a speaker is) reacts with the box volume and a null is created in the low frequencies. You have to go bigger with the radiator to move the notch down into a frequency range that isn't audible, etc. I just think ports are easier to deal with. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 6, 2015 20:27:23 GMT -6
Quick post trying to catch up on EVERYTHING !
Chris did a great job on his Converter, Mic and Monitors! Polar opposite of Johns Amphions which also impressed !
The thing Chris's boxes kept making me think of Were ProAc Studio 100s! Very in your face and I mean that as a compliment!
Amphions open not as extended and that little 5 needs a sub but I do see what John loves about them!
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Post by ericn on Oct 6, 2015 20:29:47 GMT -6
I think a passive radiator and a port affect how the bass sounds too ? You know, its not just a matter of how low the freq are that are reproduced but their sound quality and balance with the rest of the monitors' response ? kind of like arguing about different flavours of darp chocolate, though ! Of course! A passive radiator has all kinds of benefits and also detriments. I can't possibly list them all but there are folks on both sides that love and hate them for all kinds of reasons. Personally I tend to dislike them because a lot of manufacturers use passive radiators that are much too small to be of any use and only cause poor woofer response. Typically you want radiators with volume displacement equal to 2x (or greater) displacement than the maximum displacement of the woofer(s). This makes the passive radiators very large or very loose. Both can have issues with group delay, or a phenomenon called "passive notch" or "radiator notch" when the compliance volume (how much air is moved by how loose or tight a speaker is) reacts with the box volume and a null is created in the low frequencies. You have to go bigger with the radiator to move the notch down into a frequency range that isn't audible, etc. I just think ports are easier to deal with. Quick point to act there best passive radiators need to be individually tuned via weighting lots of work to get each box right! |
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Post by svart on Oct 6, 2015 20:31:30 GMT -6
Of course! A passive radiator has all kinds of benefits and also detriments. I can't possibly list them all but there are folks on both sides that love and hate them for all kinds of reasons. Personally I tend to dislike them because a lot of manufacturers use passive radiators that are much too small to be of any use and only cause poor woofer response. Typically you want radiators with volume displacement equal to 2x (or greater) displacement than the maximum displacement of the woofer(s). This makes the passive radiators very large or very loose. Both can have issues with group delay, or a phenomenon called "passive notch" or "radiator notch" when the compliance volume (how much air is moved by how loose or tight a speaker is) reacts with the box volume and a null is created in the low frequencies. You have to go bigger with the radiator to move the notch down into a frequency range that isn't audible, etc. I just think ports are easier to deal with. Quick point to act there best passive radiators need to be individually tuned via weighting lots of work to get each box right! Absolutely. Just another reason I like ports! |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 7, 2015 3:33:30 GMT -6
Understood I meant my comment humorously my previous adams had a port chuffing problem in their first run. When you say those little 5 are you referring to the woofers in svart's speakers ? I thought JK has amphion one eighteen which I thought had a 6 inch woofer and matched radiator.
Interesting design decision all amphion radiators are exact size of their woofer. The SOS review commented on the very high build quality of the Amphion and attention to design and build detail and they are known for very tight and accurate bass
Svart's and Amphion share the lower crossover point I think ? 1600-1800 ? What did you settle on Chris ?
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Post by svart on Oct 7, 2015 8:35:56 GMT -6
Understood I meant my comment humorously my previous adams had a port chuffing problem in their first run. When you say those little 5 are you referring to the woofers in svart's speakers ? I thought JK has amphion one eighteen which I thought had a 6 inch woofer and matched radiator. Interesting design decision all amphion radiators are exact size of their woofer. The SOS review commented on the very high build quality of the Amphion and attention to design and build detail and they are known for very tight and accurate bass Svart's and Amphion share the lower crossover point I think ? 1600-1800 ? What did you settle on Chris ? Yeah his are like 5.5" or 6" woofers. The PR is like 6"-ish. it looks a slight bit bigger than the woofer. IMHO I thought the amphions alone were very bass shy. Tight, yes, but not powerful at all, they absolutely need a subwoofer I thought. My woofers are closer to 7". Mine also have a higher output it seems. It could be the driver sensitivity, or it could be the amphions have more crossover sections than mine. My crossover point is around 1200. One of my design criteria was to get the crossover as low as possible to get it out of the 2K-3K region where our voices reside. I feel that most 2-way systems always lack in the midrange detail because the complex nature of crossovers and the way they affect audio between drivers. I was able to do this simply because of the aluminum tweeter and it's abilities to go extremely low without much distortion. All in all, I still like 3 way speakers most of all, but these are getting better with every revision i do. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2015 9:37:26 GMT -6
A little more
For reference remember Chris's speakers were his research project to see what the fuss was about Aluminum Drivers, he's still working on the crossover. honestly they would have no problem if they were being sold by a big name Speaker Company as they are right now!
Chris is an engineer, not an AE but a real engineer, it is best quality and his worst, he thinks like an engineer, most of the time that is a negative in the speaker world, but here it works!
I keep thinking ProAc 2 ways when I think of his boxes
In comparison Johns Amphions were wider , but Chris's had more pinpoint imaging Chris's boxes went far deeper I could use Chrises without a sub. The Amphion was the mid champ, but that's because with that little 5.5 it's mids or go deep, you have a choice go deep and the excursion going to distort the mids, clear mids and you can't go deep.
In John's room I think the Wave guide Keeps the tweeter off the roof / side walls I see why he likes them and while his sub isn't a perfect match it works for him ! He also has a sensitivity to a certain range in his voice that to my ears ProAc and Chris's boxes emphasize the Amphions don't .
I could learn to work and live with either box but here's the kicker I know what Chris has into his drivers and his boxes total is probably a third of the Amphions!
I really want to hear Chris's when he gets the tweetks in and I really Want to hear the Baby Amphions that started this whole thing !
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 7, 2015 10:13:03 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 7, 2015 10:23:55 GMT -6
I really need the Barefoots to go out of fashion so I can get them for pennies on the dollar. Hahaha.
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Post by svart on Oct 7, 2015 11:12:19 GMT -6
I really need the Barefoots to go out of fashion so I can get them for pennies on the dollar. Hahaha. I've heard from folks that barefoots are another "love it or hate it" speaker. I've not heard them myself though. I really want to build a 3way system. I think one more tweak on these and I'll move on to building a 3 way setup with traditional cones. I like the metal cones for some reasons but they seem to be much harder to control in their breakup regions, leading to a lot of "work arounds" in the crossover. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 7, 2015 11:35:45 GMT -6
I really need the Barefoots to go out of fashion so I can get them for pennies on the dollar. Hahaha. I've heard from folks that barefoots are another "love it or hate it" speaker. I've not heard them myself though. I really want to build a 3way system. I think one more tweak on these and I'll move on to building a 3 way setup with traditional cones. I like the metal cones for some reasons but they seem to be much harder to control in their breakup regions, leading to a lot of "work arounds" in the crossover. Morel cat308 ScanSpeak DT7608/9200-10 Volt B2500 or B2549 Vented box biamped use Hypex plate amp Think Quested 3110 ! Because other than the Custom amp and built for Quested Volt 10 your there ! Upgrade the mid to Volt or ATC or ATC SL super yummie but then you would want to upgrade tweet ! Add say an auxiliary box with another 10 and amp for more Lowed SPL No bro never put any thought into this !  S |
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Post by svart on Oct 30, 2015 12:27:10 GMT -6
So I have a new revision of crossover for the speakers, which I think will clear up the remaining issues with the speakers. I'll try building it over the weekend and testing.
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Post by svart on Oct 30, 2015 14:48:40 GMT -6
So another question.. I never intended to sell these things at all, but it seems a few folks are interested.
If I were to make a few pairs, would people want to buy them? Honestly the boxes are the hardest part to make, although I did make the design air volume the same as some generic speaker box volumes, around 0.75cuft.
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Post by b1 on Oct 30, 2015 16:14:01 GMT -6
Maybe have the option of getting the boxes from you (with the size for the DIY option)... Or are you going to have them already assembled?
1.) Are you making the drivers?
2.) what is a ballpark price?
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Post by svart on Oct 30, 2015 19:00:43 GMT -6
Maybe have the option of getting the boxes from you (with the size for the DIY option)... Or are you going to have them already assembled? 1.) Are you making the drivers? 2.) what is a ballpark price? I was thinking assembled. 1. Drivers are from dayton audio, from Parts Express. 2. I dunno honestly. The cost would be around 700$ for the parts and wood, not counting labor. It would be more if I bought the 0.75cuft boxes off the shelf. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 30, 2015 19:22:38 GMT -6
So final assembled price would be ?
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Post by b1 on Oct 31, 2015 12:33:23 GMT -6
Maybe have the option of getting the boxes from you (with the size for the DIY option)... Or are you going to have them already assembled? 1.) Are you making the drivers? 2.) what is a ballpark price? I was thinking assembled. 1. Drivers are from dayton audio, from Parts Express. 2. I dunno honestly. The cost would be around 700$ for the parts and wood, not counting labor. It would be more if I bought the 0.75cuft boxes off the shelf. 1.) Doh, I just saw the first page with the links. I'll be watching closer... |
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Post by svart on Nov 1, 2015 8:47:32 GMT -6
So final assembled price would be ? I dunno, 1500$ a pair or so I think, for a handmade pair of monitors. We'll see how mine turn out with the next revision of crossover. |
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Post by svart on Nov 9, 2015 8:19:25 GMT -6
So I think I've done it.
I've made the most awesome DIY monitors known to mankind. Revision 4 crossover is the winner and I'm done.
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