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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 5, 2015 11:11:51 GMT -6
one of my favs is the Haas effect, it's a huge step up in mid panning images from pan pots, Hass is also the saving grace for guys who pigeon hole themselves into "strict" LCR use, allowing them to say they were "right" lol, it's the act of taking 2 identical tracks, one L one R, that should show up the in the center, then applying a delay in the sub 20ms range. The delay in effect moves the image partial L or R, amount and direction depends on delay time, and side applied. Haas follows real world human hearing dynamics, so the image comes off entirely more depthful and realistic than simply using the pan pot. You can further tailor the effect by level attenuation and shelving high freq's on the delayed side, just be subtle or you ruin the effect ime. this guy totally gets it, enjoy 8) +1 Big fan here.
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Post by ben on Apr 5, 2015 19:05:19 GMT -6
I like to use very subtle delays to get program material out of the middle of the mix to make room for other things. I'm surprised at the amount of mixers who don't know how to do this. Then again, it took me a while to learn. ben, Are you talking about, for example, (a) taking an electric guitar track and panning it left (b) setting up a mono aux track with a short delay (1-10 ms) inserted, (c) panning that mono aux track right- the opposite of the guitar track, and (d) sending the guitar track to the mono aux track? I do this when I want to make the guitar to sound wider and less directional. Or, are you talking about something else? To make a vocal wider, I also will at times take the vocal channel and send it to two mono aux tracks panned opposite-one L and one R- with insert delays of 30ms on one and 35 ms on the other. There're several ways to do it. One is the Haas effect, as you just explained and tonycamphd pointed out. Other ways to do it are to use exciters, MS plugs, autopanners, using Haas on just the fx, and of course, traditional LRC panning. It's the combination of all of these that paints the picture. I prefer shorter delays in multiples of 7. I don't know why, I just think it sounds best without being obvious and I like the comb filtering. Also, try using two slightly different verbs/fx in mono, pan hard L&R, and then mess with those tracks to get wide.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 5, 2015 19:23:46 GMT -6
Love that Jcoutou, will try soon.You too Ben, will try to up my game soon. Right now, I'm just trying to write the parts I hope to record well ;-)
Just watched the video, that's really interesting, I gotta try that. I've struggled with the quality of my acoustic guitar on some tracks, and the panning was the reason. I think this Haas effect technique might be the answer I was looking for.
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Post by lcr on Apr 7, 2015 7:47:12 GMT -6
Haas is an old technique, not so much a secret.. It can be cool, sometimes. It can get very 80's sounding, and sometimes that is cool. Not sure if it's been mentioned, but panning a mono instrument hard left and a mono verb hard right can be cool. Also try duplicating a mono instrument, hard pan each opposite sides, lopass one side so it is all lomids and lows, and hipass the other side so it is all hi mids and highs.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 7, 2015 8:14:37 GMT -6
I tried the Haas technique briefly yesterday, and it didn't seem to do much. I'll have to try it again. Not sure which delay would be best to do it with, I have a few.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 7, 2015 8:56:18 GMT -6
Beware Haas and phase widening can both create mono and, in turn, broadcast processing problems. All broadcast processing assumes mono compatibility.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 7, 2015 9:19:47 GMT -6
Will keep that in mind, thanks Bob.
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Post by svart on Jun 23, 2020 7:05:08 GMT -6
An old thread, but I ran into something the other day while messing around with an old mix and watching videos of pro mixers do their thing..
So a medium-name mixer made a set of videos for mixing harder music and for the most part it's just the usual stuff, but one thing really stuck out at me as being completely opposite of what I'm used to seeing..
He added a high shelf to the overheads and CUT them down a few dB above 4K. he also added a HPF around 300-500 and a slight cut somewhere for resonance.
But anyway, that high shelf cut blew my mind. It sounded so dark and almost muffled in solo, but fit his mix well, so I decided to give it a try in this mix that I've been redoing.
I gotta say, in a dense mix, it still sounds reasonably bright but the cymbals stand out a lot more due to their lower harmonics being more prominent than the high frequencies and it still sounds more full over the frequency spectrum than I expected.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 9:50:06 GMT -6
An old thread, but I ran into something the other day while messing around with an old mix and watching videos of pro mixers do their thing.. So a medium-name mixer made a set of videos for mixing harder music and for the most part it's just the usual stuff, but one thing really stuck out at me as being completely opposite of what I'm used to seeing.. He added a high shelf to the overheads and CUT them down a few dB above 4K. he also added a HPF around 300-500 and a slight cut somewhere for resonance. But anyway, that high shelf cut blew my mind. It sounded so dark and almost muffled in solo, but fit his mix well, so I decided to give it a try in this mix that I've been redoing. I gotta say, in a dense mix, it still sounds reasonably bright but the cymbals stand out a lot more due to their lower harmonics being more prominent than the high frequencies and it still sounds more full over the frequency spectrum than I expected. That's interesting. I've been using a dynamic EQ with a high shelf around 4-5k to clamp down a bit when things get a little harsh. Sometimes it's just the one cymbal that is too much, so I'll use the m/s thing to just grab the one side. Works well. Haven't fully committed to just turning it down altogether though.
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Post by Ward on Jun 24, 2020 6:52:46 GMT -6
An old thread, but I ran into something the other day while messing around with an old mix and watching videos of pro mixers do their thing.. So a medium-name mixer made a set of videos for mixing harder music and for the most part it's just the usual stuff, but one thing really stuck out at me as being completely opposite of what I'm used to seeing.. He added a high shelf to the overheads and CUT them down a few dB above 4K. he also added a HPF around 300-500 and a slight cut somewhere for resonance. But anyway, that high shelf cut blew my mind. It sounded so dark and almost muffled in solo, but fit his mix well, so I decided to give it a try in this mix that I've been redoing. I gotta say, in a dense mix, it still sounds reasonably bright but the cymbals stand out a lot more due to their lower harmonics being more prominent than the high frequencies and it still sounds more full over the frequency spectrum than I expected. That's not unusual in heavy music as most of those drummers really crash out their cymbals hard and crash-ride them. I find it very necesary but also notch somewhere between 3 and 4 k so my ears aren't gone after an hour at a song.
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Post by svart on Jun 24, 2020 7:15:45 GMT -6
An old thread, but I ran into something the other day while messing around with an old mix and watching videos of pro mixers do their thing.. So a medium-name mixer made a set of videos for mixing harder music and for the most part it's just the usual stuff, but one thing really stuck out at me as being completely opposite of what I'm used to seeing.. He added a high shelf to the overheads and CUT them down a few dB above 4K. he also added a HPF around 300-500 and a slight cut somewhere for resonance. But anyway, that high shelf cut blew my mind. It sounded so dark and almost muffled in solo, but fit his mix well, so I decided to give it a try in this mix that I've been redoing. I gotta say, in a dense mix, it still sounds reasonably bright but the cymbals stand out a lot more due to their lower harmonics being more prominent than the high frequencies and it still sounds more full over the frequency spectrum than I expected. That's not unusual in heavy music as most of those drummers really crash out their cymbals hard and crash-ride them. I find it very necesary but also notch somewhere between 3 and 4 k so my ears aren't gone after an hour at a song. Same. There's usually a narrow slice around 4-5k and another around 6-7k where they whistle a bit, but this is a whole cutting shelf, but it works better than I expected.
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Post by schmalzy on Jun 24, 2020 8:05:11 GMT -6
That upper mids shelf down is a cool idea. I'll have to try that!
I've been doing one of a few things on my overheads depending on the mix:
Saturation that has a low-pass built into it. Kush's Omega N gets gently dark above 10 kHz and has been good for this. Low-pass deep but add some high shelf back into it. Softube's EQF-100 or the Kush Hammer EQ has worked great. It kind of sounds like a bell down with a shelf back up but better. ...and (idealogically the complete opposite) which is limiting the shells, hpf to 500-ish (I like the snare bark in that area), shelf up a bit around 8k, and compress fast/med slow with the detector high-pass set to 3k-ish. An important part in this is a heavy reliance on rooms and close mics for the overall drum sound.
All of those include a few narrow EQ rips. My room has a 2.3k thing but there's typically something around 6k and 9k, too.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 24, 2020 15:36:40 GMT -6
I remember vividly what took my amateurish mixes to the next level; understanding Busses and Effects Sends and how to use them to your advantage. Effects sends started that journey. Putting the reverb on a separate fader and mixing it together in parallel was a revelation for me. I could also use the same reverb or delay on multiple sources utilizing only one instance of the plugin.
Further by utilizing busses I could make mixing easier, especially when dealing with full orchestra based orchestrations. It allowed me to utilize a single fader to bring up entire String sections, brass sections, woodwinds, percussion, drums, vocals etc and their respective effects all at once. It allowed me to make mini mixes of each section and control the volume and balance of the entire section with one fader.
This may seem obvious to many of you who’ve been doing this for a long time, but this approach was the single most important leap in my own journey. So I thought I’d share it.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 24, 2020 21:20:22 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas here.
It also amazes me how this job requires constant discovery when you work on others music, when in your own room with your usual stuff. Just as many times where personal mix tricks don’t work, and you have to know the ingredients for a new recipe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 7:37:13 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas here. It also amazes me how this job requires constant discovery when you work on others music, when in your own room with your usual stuff. Just as many times where personal mix tricks don’t work, and you have to know the ingredients for a new recipe. It's that relentless, sometimes frustrating, always captivating pursuit that makes me love this stuff so much. I'm like that about just about everything, but this is the one area where it makes sense and doesn't cause problems in my life. haha.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 25, 2020 7:57:45 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas here. It also amazes me how this job requires constant discovery when you work on others music, when in your own room with your usual stuff. Just as many times where personal mix tricks don’t work, and you have to know the ingredients for a new recipe. Almost every major leap I’ve taken was working on other people’s music. Kind of lucky my wife is around too. Having another voice to work on helps.
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Post by svart on Jun 25, 2020 8:43:53 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas here. It also amazes me how this job requires constant discovery when you work on others music, when in your own room with your usual stuff. Just as many times where personal mix tricks don’t work, and you have to know the ingredients for a new recipe. I'll tell you what I've found.. That it's so much easier mixing someone else's tracks. Maybe because if I track my own I get a case of tunnel vision, but I never feel overly critical when mixing someone else's tracks while I anguish over tiny details in stuff I track.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 25, 2020 9:30:06 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas here. It also amazes me how this job requires constant discovery when you work on others music, when in your own room with your usual stuff. Just as many times where personal mix tricks don’t work, and you have to know the ingredients for a new recipe. I'll tell you what I've found.. That it's so much easier mixing someone else's tracks. Maybe because if I track my own I get a case of tunnel vision, but I never feel overly critical when mixing someone else's tracks while I anguish over tiny details in stuff I track. Yeah. I had a band member commit suicide 12 years ago and only now have forgotten the tracks enough to realistically assess what should happen. But also true of other old unfinished projects I was involved in. Started mixing one that’s 27 years old.
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Post by Ward on Jun 25, 2020 11:10:02 GMT -6
Another tip: get all tracks edited and tidied up before you start mixing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 11:56:20 GMT -6
Another tip: get all tracks edited and tidied up before you start mixing. One of the best things my mentor taught me. Edit, splice, fade, consolidate, delete what you don't need... I always do a back up to a separate external HD of the un-edited/cleaned up session just in case I botch something and need to revert back. I think that's a worthwhile addendum.
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Post by svart on Jun 25, 2020 12:21:37 GMT -6
Another tip: get all tracks edited and tidied up before you start mixing. One of the best things my mentor taught me. Edit, splice, fade, consolidate, delete what you don't need... I always do a back up to a separate external HD of the un-edited/cleaned up session just in case I botch something and need to revert back. I think that's a worthwhile addendum. I thought it kinda went without saying to do these things, but having worked with others on their mixes in their studios, I found it was almost never the case, which I found odd because it seems so obvious to me. But I also do the full import, line everything up and then save as "Safety", then resave it again as a "working mix" that I can edit like crazy. Since Reaper is mostly non-destructive I almost never need to revert to a different mix to fix something, but it's nice knowing I can revert. I typically also save a few different files as progress milestones so that if something were to happen I wouldn't have to go back. I've only had once where I dropped something on the keyboard and it completely blew out my tempo maps and I couldn't ctrl-Z them back for some reason and reverted to the prior day's save.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 25, 2020 12:35:39 GMT -6
One of the best things my mentor taught me. Edit, splice, fade, consolidate, delete what you don't need... I always do a back up to a separate external HD of the un-edited/cleaned up session just in case I botch something and need to revert back. I think that's a worthwhile addendum. I thought it kinda went without saying to do these things, but having worked with others on their mixes in their studios, I found it was almost never the case, which I found odd because it seems so obvious to me. I almost never get anything from another studio that's sorted/edited/consolidated/LABELED in any way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 13:18:59 GMT -6
I thought it kinda went without saying to do these things, but having worked with others on their mixes in their studios, I found it was almost never the case, which I found odd because it seems so obvious to me. I almost never get anything from another studio that's sorted/edited/consolidated/LABELED in any way. Same here. I make sure to let people know that I expect that now before it gets sent. Some home record / hobby types don't even know how to do it. "Consolidate? Huh?" If that's the case, I just roll my eyes and add the extra work to my bill.
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Post by svart on Jun 25, 2020 16:11:02 GMT -6
I thought it kinda went without saying to do these things, but having worked with others on their mixes in their studios, I found it was almost never the case, which I found odd because it seems so obvious to me. I almost never get anything from another studio that's sorted/edited/consolidated/LABELED in any way. Same. I also had a person that insisted I go get PT so he could send me the session file. He was adamant that the session file contained the audio and didn't know what consolidation was. I've known a handful of people doing recording that don't even know the basics, and it seems to be more and more recordists out there that know less and less.
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Post by svart on Jul 12, 2020 21:11:06 GMT -6
Ok, so I figured out a new trick this weekend.
Waves C4, one of the presets "thumping" something or other is a great setting for snare. I boosted more top and made the low mids compression more aggressive and adjusted the low expander a little, but it gives a great starting tone for smacking snare.
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