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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 5, 2015 11:02:08 GMT -6
Yep, I agree. I'd rather see the output knob than the input knob. Also, if you're already modding the circuit, why not include the output too. Makes total sense. I guess I'm just less concerned because I'd be using it in mixing more than tracking. Out of the converters, to the console, hit the comp on the insert, then use the fader to set my output level. No issues other than maybe a wonky level difference with a bypass/active using my console insert switch.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 5, 2015 12:14:43 GMT -6
Bruce Swedien "track with compression? what are you kookoo?" or something like that 8) every attenuation/amp device in the circuit is another footprint on your audio, conductive plastics are better but mucho dinero'$ Keep your options open, say no to tracking with compression..., especially if your aiming at -18dbfs, there is simply no need unless you're short on plugs? hardware is different i concede...  ,,, ok, GO!!! |
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Post by drbill on Feb 5, 2015 16:27:55 GMT -6
Tony - a comment on your thoughts not directed specifically towards you.....
I'll GENERALLY track without compression, but I want my basic tracks with all faders at unity to sound like a record. I want it to sound like what I want the mix to sound like. If that means tracking with compression, EQ, chorus or whatever, I'll do it. The only thing I generally (but it does happen) won't track with is delays and/or verb. IMO, one of the big problems with music production these days is delayed decision making. It kills the creative spirit, I'm all about creative spirit, and I find making decisions that sometimes cause me to find unusual solutions after I screw up to be a wonderful creative muse. So I say - COMPRESS AWAY if that's what you hear. Screw having options later. Use the force to direct the sound......
The Caveat : If you don't know what you want it to sound like, I'd suggest enlisting the help of someone with production skills to help out.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 5, 2015 22:10:12 GMT -6
Tony - a comment on your thoughts not directed specifically towards you..... I'll GENERALLY track without compression, but I want my basic tracks with all faders at unity to sound like a record. I want it to sound like what I want the mix to sound like. If that means tracking with compression, EQ, chorus or whatever, I'll do it. The only thing I generally (but it does happen) won't track with is delays and/or verb. IMO, one of the big problems with music production these days is delayed decision making. It kills the creative spirit, I'm all about creative spirit, and I find making decisions that sometimes cause me to find unusual solutions after I screw up to be a wonderful creative muse. So I say - COMPRESS AWAY if that's what you hear. Screw having options later. Use the force to direct the sound...... The Caveat : If you don't know what you want it to sound like, I'd suggest enlisting the help of someone with production skills to help out. Putting off decisions? really? it takes all of 30 seconds to add compression to a track once it's ready for mixing, how long does it take to get back the mis timed attack/release attenuations, dynamic range and transients you tossed away while assumptively compressing it on the way in? You know, when just a single parameter that you locked yourself into that doesn't work with that small CHANGE the artist made in the creative process? Never is how long it takes. The best part about compressing in the MIX stage, is now you KNOW what the tune is gonna sound like, no gambling with the clients art necessary, you can dive yourself into "I know exactly what I want" on your own stuff and you'll have no one to blame but yourself if you F up, but if you're working for a client and you blow it, i'm pretty sure they'll know where to put the blame lol, you better think twice! Beside this, every great pro mix engineer i've ever seen always ALWAYS! applies compression, eq, and CREATIVELY experiments with everything else available to them AFTER tracking, and DURING the mix process, it doesn't slow shit down unless you're a sub enthusiast level AE, in fact, it greatly enhances the CREATIVE process, and at the time when you actually have the RIGHT to non destructively experiment with the CLIENTS art. I believe compression is the single most powerful tool an AE has in their toolbox, it's much MUCH more than just a simple color, or getting levels up tool, it controls image placement, density, it's a dynamic volume/eq control that dictates the energy and movement of a track, its use is almost exclusively predicated on factors outside the track it's inserted on, and it's ultimate use cannot be precisely optimized outside the scope of a completely recorded piece of music that is ready for the mix stage. Compressing should never be a limiting factor(no pun), If you compress on the way in, YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY SHRINKING your available dynamic range and eq, and it is no longer available at mix time, tantamount to taking tools out of your toolbox that would have allowed you maximum control to do YOUR JOB in the context of full bandwidth tracks, and instead locking you into restrictions that actually limit your CREATIVITY, and take you out of what should be the WHIMSICAL and instinctive act of mixing in the moment. Bruce Swedien doesn't assume he understands "EXACTLY" what a clients tune is going to sound like BEFORE the mix stage, that would be inexcusably presumptuous! Shit, most artists don't know what their OWN tunes are going to sound like during the mix stage, even with plenty of pre production! and anyone who DOES isn't exactly opening themselves up to the moment and letting the CREATIVE SPIRIT fly now are they? My advice is solid,...of course Bill-none of this is directed specifically at you 8) |
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Post by mulmany on Feb 5, 2015 22:23:15 GMT -6
tonycamphd, I just read all that in an exasperated yelling voice in my head.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 5, 2015 22:29:50 GMT -6
tonycamphd, I just read all that in an exasperated yelling voice in my head. lol, must be the capital letters? i'm just trying to be helpful. Try reading again with some kenny G playing in the background and some incense burning 8) |
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Post by drbill on Feb 5, 2015 22:48:01 GMT -6
Tony - a comment on your thoughts not directed specifically towards you..... I'll GENERALLY track without compression, but I want my basic tracks with all faders at unity to sound like a record. I want it to sound like what I want the mix to sound like. If that means tracking with compression, EQ, chorus or whatever, I'll do it. The only thing I generally (but it does happen) won't track with is delays and/or verb. IMO, one of the big problems with music production these days is delayed decision making. It kills the creative spirit, I'm all about creative spirit, and I find making decisions that sometimes cause me to find unusual solutions after I screw up to be a wonderful creative muse. So I say - COMPRESS AWAY if that's what you hear. Screw having options later. Use the force to direct the sound...... The Caveat : If you don't know what you want it to sound like, I'd suggest enlisting the help of someone with production skills to help out. Putting off decisions? really? it takes all of 30 seconds to add compression to a track once it's ready for mixing, how long does it take to get back the mis timed attack/release attenuations, dynamic range and transients you tossed away while assumptively compressing it on the way in? You know, when just a single parameter that you locked yourself into that doesn't work with that small CHANGE the artist made in the creative process? Never is how long it takes. The best part about compressing in the MIX stage, is now you KNOW what the tune is gonna sound like, no gambling with the clients art necessary, you can dive yourself into "I know exactly what I want" on your own stuff and you'll have no one to blame but yourself if you F up, but if you're working for a client and you blow it, i'm pretty sure they'll know where to put the blame lol, you better think twice! Beside this, every great pro mix engineer i've ever seen always ALWAYS! applies compression, eq, and CREATIVELY experiments with everything else available to them AFTER tracking, and DURING the mix process, it doesn't slow shit down unless you're a sub enthusiast level AE, in fact, it greatly enhances the CREATIVE process, and at the time when you actually have the RIGHT to non destructively experiment with the CLIENTS art. I believe compression is the single most powerful tool an AE has in their toolbox, it's much MUCH more than just a simple color, or getting levels up tool, it controls image placement, density, it's a dynamic volume/eq control that dictates the energy and movement of a track, its use is almost exclusively predicated on factors outside the track it's inserted on, and it's ultimate use cannot be precisely optimized outside the scope of a completely recorded piece of music that is ready for the mix stage. Compressing should never be a limiting factor(no pun), If you compress on the way in, YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY SHRINKING your available dynamic range and eq, and it is no longer available at mix time, tantamount to taking tools out of your toolbox that would have allowed you maximum control to do YOUR JOB in the context of full bandwidth tracks, and instead locking you into restrictions that actually limit your CREATIVITY, and take you out of what should be the WHIMSICAL and instinctive act of mixing in the moment. Bruce Swedien doesn't assume he understands "EXACTLY" what a clients tune is going to sound like BEFORE the mix stage, that would be inexcusably presumptuous! Shit, most artists don't know what their OWN tunes are going to sound like during the mix stage, even with plenty of pre production! and anyone who DOES isn't exactly opening themselves up to the moment and letting the CREATIVE SPIRIT fly now are they? My advice is solid,...of course Bill-none of this is directed specifically at you 8) Now don't get your panties all wadded up bro..... :-) Did you read that I said I "generally" track without compression? No one said your advice wasn't solid. It is fine advice. I just said it wasn't how I like to work. And then I told you why. The #1 reason? I like working fast, and I like committing so I have less options. It front loads the creative decisions, and I find I can turn out more work that way instead of sifting thru 3 kick drum tracks, a myriad of gtrs, etc. when it's mix time. I certainly understand how that might not work for you or the next guy. We don't all have to work the same way, right? These days, I am my own client. I'm either producing someone else that I've chosen, or it's my own music. Either way, I already have a vision in my mind, and I'm not working for some band that can't commit or has not much experience. I've paid my dues on hundreds of sessions for others and am REALLY happy and blessed with where I've ended up in the last few years. The types of sessions I mentioned (with me producing either my own music or someone else) take away about 90% of the question mark "what if's" in my world. Hey, it's old skool, and I'm proud to work that way. (I think it might be the way Zep started.....  I get your point 100%. But like I said, it's old skool, I'm old skool and I dig it. It seems to be working for me as the demand for what I do keeps getting more and more every quarter, so...... Don't fix what ain't broken. I totally dig working that way because it heightens the creative juices. And when you get used to it, you start rising to the occasion. At least I find I do. Keeps me from getting lazy. :-) I'm much better at "snap decisions" than I used to be. Fun stuff. As the man said.....YMMV. |
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Post by kevinnyc on Feb 7, 2015 8:06:33 GMT -6
I almost always track with compression.....just very gently. Call me crazy but I like to take advantage of my hardware comps and analog mojo on the way in the box....
Therefore I can make better use of my hardware during summing and still have the ability to mangle in between if necessary...
Whatever sounds and feels good.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 7, 2015 9:51:48 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Feb 7, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -6
I almost always track with compression.....just very gently. Call me crazy but I like to take advantage of my hardware comps and analog mojo on the way in the box.... Therefore I can make better use of my hardware during summing and still have the ability to mangle in between if necessary... Whatever sounds and feels good. DITTO |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 7, 2015 14:19:49 GMT -6
Bruce Swedien "track with compression? what are you kookoo?" or something like that 8) every attenuation/amp device in the circuit is another footprint on your audio, conductive plastics are better but mucho dinero'$ Keep your options open, say no to tracking with compression..., especially if your aiming at -18dbfs, there is simply no need unless you're short on plugs? hardware is different i concede...
,,, ok, GO!!! glad we all agree..lol,... ^ does anyone read anymore? |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 7, 2015 15:54:13 GMT -6
Bruce Swedien "track with compression? what are you kookoo?" or something like that 8) every attenuation/amp device in the circuit is another footprint on your audio, conductive plastics are better but mucho dinero'$ Keep your options open, say no to tracking with compression..., especially if your aiming at -18dbfs, there is simply no need unless you're short on plugs? hardware is different i concede...
,,, ok, GO!!! glad we all agree..lol,... ^ does anyone read anymore? That last part want there when you posted. Must have edited after.  |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 8, 2015 11:23:39 GMT -6
glad we all agree..lol,... ^ does anyone read anymore? That last part want there when you posted. Must have edited after. Holy hallucination batman! He edited it at 11:18am on February 5th, the next post was...2:27pm feb 5th! The joker must have used the time machine?  |
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Post by Randge on Feb 8, 2015 11:53:58 GMT -6
For me, most of the time, I spend quite a bit of one on one time with the artists in preproduction and we know what we are focused on and shooting for. So, I am able to be flexible with the tracking players if someone has a great idea or stick to the charted plan that is working. We try things both ways if time and money permits. So, with having a good idea of the game plan and preproduction behind us, I can use creative eq and compression on the way in. If I was unable to have the adequate preproduction done before hand,I track with a bare minimum of essentials and use outboard later. I do high pass needed instruments so the headphone mix sound clean and manageable.
R
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Post by Ward on Feb 8, 2015 17:24:38 GMT -6
Holy hallucination batman! He edited it at 11:18am on February 5th, the next post was...2:27pm feb 5th! The joker must have used the time machine? Is that donr 's time machine? If so, how did the ghost overcome the physical limitations of not being to interact (physically) with a past time? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 8, 2015 18:20:46 GMT -6
Holy hallucination batman! He edited it at 11:18am on February 5th, the next post was...2:27pm feb 5th! The joker must have used the time machine? Is that donr 's time machine? If so, how did the ghost overcome the physical limitations of not being to interact (physically) with a past time? simple, by virtue of his time machine not being the intergalactic type, it does not introduce time compression until AFTER you get back to present time, in turn leaving the critically important transients of the interdimensional time travel continuum fully in tact and accessible into the 4th dimension, allowing an existential time traveler(such as myself), although invisible in this historical dimension, the ability to reach into said dimension, and to change history for the benefit all of mankind,.... or at least my argument |
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Post by Ward on Feb 10, 2015 10:27:25 GMT -6
OK... I want Tony's time machine instead.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
Member is Online
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Post by ericn on Feb 10, 2015 10:42:16 GMT -6
Well I know where you can find a Lexicon Time Compressor close enough?
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Post by Ward on Feb 11, 2015 7:47:49 GMT -6
Life's short enough as it is, ericn! Who would wish to compress it even further? |
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 25, 2015 19:32:37 GMT -6
I'm not on Facebook could you post a link to the comp. so I can see without joining. I've got 2 of the D4 (Redd47 style) preamps. Have yet to try them out. I need to setup a few more things in the studio and test them out. - have you had a chance to try out these D4's yet? Impressions...... |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 25, 2015 20:00:45 GMT -6
D4 clip on other thread.
it has a clarity , presence and tone!
certainly different than my la610 and warm audio tb12: different in a complimentary way
solid case well made and nice clean build inside ( it even smells good !)
i recommend !
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Post by winetree on Feb 26, 2015 0:24:27 GMT -6
Odyssey76 Asked, "winetree - have you had a chance to try out these D4's yet? Impressions……"
No, still doing studio construction. But after listening to the clip,
I' think I'll take a D4 over to Tony's house when we do the mic shoot-out this weekend,
and take a listen to it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 26, 2015 2:49:33 GMT -6
if you haven't used yours yet, i noticed the main pre controls need to seat and feel grabby so i turned i click louder one softer, one step at a time up to max, seems to break contacts in ?
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 26, 2015 4:33:00 GMT -6
Odyssey76 Asked, "winetree - have you had a chance to try out these D4's yet? Impressions……" No, still doing studio construction. But after listening to the clip, I' think I'll take a D4 over to Tony's house when we do the mic shoot-out this weekend, and take a listen to it. Nice, very eager to check that out especially with your mic collection winetree. Looking forward to it... |
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Post by gouge on Mar 4, 2015 4:18:23 GMT -6
I want one of these. so badly. damn the Australian dollar!! I don't care about output gain missing.
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,,, ok, GO!!!
