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Post by popmann on Jan 27, 2015 9:53:02 GMT -6
It's used because you CAN use it as the final track. It won't reject as well as any number of "live" vocal mics. It's used because magic happens....and an sm7 track is a perfectly solid professional vocal track.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2015 9:58:49 GMT -6
Great post yotonic, those are interesting observations.
On the most recent track I've just begun, I put down just a high hat beat as a click. I had my mic set up from an earlier session, so I figured I would write a better drum part if I had some music to write to, so I grabbed my acoustic, stood in front of my LDC and just sang the song, I wasn't being careful, and even cleared my throat at one point, knowing it was just a guide vocal. The next day I laid down two beautiful acoustic guitar tracks, then did a really good vocal and comped it a little, and every part was solid.
It just didn't touch the vibe of the guide vocal. Now I'm screwed, either keep trying until I get a great vibe vocal that tops the guide vocal, or live with it, warts and all, and work around it. It looks like I'm keeping the guide, arrgghh...
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 27, 2015 10:00:49 GMT -6
I love this mic for male rock vocals. Its the classic...doesnt blow your mind solo'd but just cuts and sits in a mix perfectly. Really versatile...I like it through my API the channel. It's a really focused sound completely opposite of my MK47 which is huge full with some natural air. I can def understand why the Nashville guys would not like this mic...especially for vocals. This mic is a "go to" for some of the best guys in Nashville. It just needs a really good preamp aka Neve etc. I love what Charlie Peacock did with The Civil Wars. That record was his vintage Neve and the Sm7, the vocals are super vibey and the focal point. The arrangements are stripped down and you would think LDC would be the choice but the SM7 fits better as you say. Also all of Ray LaMontagne's hit records with Ethan Johns are the Sm7 and Universal Audio preamp. In my experience a lot of producers or artists will gravitate towards an LDC to try and pump up the vocal as part of the loudness wars. Guys just assume they need to use their biggest gun, but sometimes that's a mistake. Sometimes if you can use the restraint that an experienced painter or producer does, then you can have all of the parts and colors come together to create something more musical and vibey in the end. I struggle using the SM7 because it's not as hyped up as an LDC. But it definitely filters out a lot of noise and other frequencies that an LDC introduces, which results in this simpler more focused sound much like a single analog note ringing on a piano. There is something about a good Neve preamp that pairs really well with the Sm7. I've used everything from a Fearn to UA to Neve with it and the 1073 really elevates that mic to its full potential. Should have said modern country vocal! |
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 10:02:31 GMT -6
Correct. A lot of players perform differently while accompanying the singer. Different accents, more vibe and interesting pacing in places. Sometimes a guide vocal will just be kept when possible. I get that, but why an SM7? Especially if you know it's probably the 'wrong' mic. Sounds like the answer is that it's a good 'live' mic, but not necessarily a good tracking mic - unless you're looking for something that cuts through the rock? Almost "never" will the Sm7/58 be the wrong mic. It will be your singer needs more help. The pattern on the SM7/58 is hugely universal capturing a lot of the 47, 87, and many other well known mics. Any good singer from Paul Rodgers to Bono to Ray LaMontagne to Brandon Boyd can build an entire career around it. The 67 and 87 spread like wildfire in the seventies because everybody in LA and NY started using them to make records (without compressors). There is an obsession with compressors and LDCs today that relates to the loudness wars, home studios, the dying off of the old studio business and it results in people getting the wrong idea of how great records are made. There are so many other things that go into making a professional level record that the difference between choosing an Sm7 and a U87 for example "should be" tiny. But in project studios, and demo mills it becomes a crutch to "fake" a radio sounding recording. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2015 10:14:42 GMT -6
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/fireflies-1
Just for the fun of it, here's the guide vocal track I mentioned. It stills needs all the accompanying instruments, Bass, harmony vocal, maybe harmonica, and I'd love to try a hammond organ, but my keyboard player's a little behind the times regarding sending files, recording and sending them back, so I'll see who I can dig up. My keyboard playing is excruciatingly slow. |
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 10:23:02 GMT -6
Yeah the Sm7 sounds perfect here! Get your snare cracking, and fix the timing on your guitar strumming in the opening Martin and you've got a nice track. I like it. Maybe some BGVs near the end. Good vibe, authentic, strikes me as you.
I don't think it "needs" the organ.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2015 10:43:50 GMT -6
Thanks yotonic, much appreciated. That's one of the problems with this "guide" track. I did it to just a high hat, and the headphone mix was rough, with the guitar and vocal on one mic, So there's not much I can do about timing if I want to keep the track, I might try dropping the high hat so the the timing's not so noticeable in the intro, I really appreciate the feedback.
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Post by Randge on Jan 27, 2015 10:55:35 GMT -6
I guess I am the only one who just doesn't get along with an SM-7. It hates my voice. I have tried it through about 30 different preamps and have never heard what I was hoping to hear with it. It really works for some singers, but not my own voice. SM-57 and 58's are the same. They work great on my instruments in a live acoustic situation, but not for my vocals. I use a Miktek PM-5 and PM-9 live at this point. They don't sound closed off and muffled as the SM-7 does. An SM-7 will make me sibilant at times (if I am really close) along with sounding overly dark and masked. Wish it worked, but it sure doesn't. I even borrowed a friends to compare mine to his to make sure it wasn't just my SM-7. The end result was the same. If I have to use a bunch of processing to make it sound better, I know I have the wrong mic up.
R
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Post by mobeach on Jan 27, 2015 10:59:37 GMT -6
Mic's run away when they see me coming..
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Post by Ward on Jan 27, 2015 11:57:04 GMT -6
Correct. A lot of players perform differently while accompanying the singer. Different accents, more vibe and interesting pacing in places. Sometimes a guide vocal will just be kept when possible. I get that, but why an SM7? Especially if you know it's probably the 'wrong' mic. Sounds like the answer is that it's a good 'live' mic, but not necessarily a good tracking mic - unless you're looking for something that cuts through the rock? Because of it's 3" pickup range, it will reject a lot of potential bleed and the built in foam pop filter and metal basket diffuser will keep the plosives and sibillants in control. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 27, 2015 12:57:48 GMT -6
I guess I am the only one who just doesn't get along with an SM-7. It hates my voice. I have tried it through about 30 different preamps and have never heard what I was hoping to hear with it. It really works for some singers, but not my own voice. SM-57 and 58's are the same. They work great on my instruments in a live acoustic situation, but not for my vocals. I use a Miktek PM-5 and PM-9 live at this point. They don't sound closed off and muffled as the SM-7 does. An SM-7 will make me sibilant at times (if I am really close) along with sounding overly dark and masked. Wish it worked, but it sure doesn't. I even borrowed a friends to compare mine to his to make sure it wasn't just my SM-7. The end result was the same. If I have to use a bunch of processing to make it sound better, I know I have the wrong mic up. R No your not the only one. It ain't for me neither. |
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 13:49:17 GMT -6
Thanks yotonic, much appreciated. That's one of the problems with this "guide" track. I did it to just a high hat, and the headphone mix was rough, with the guitar and vocal on one mic, So there's not much I can do about timing if I want to keep the track, I might try dropping the high hat so the the timing's not so noticeable in the intro, I really appreciate the feedback. Well the whole point is that this is your sweet spot as a singer songwriter. You should be playing that song everyday along with whatever else is in your daily practice repertoire, and you should be able to easily track it again and again. Then you take your three favorite songs and show up at Oliver's Mission Sound in Brooklyn and cut all three on the spot with players he can line up for you. And living in NY you should be forcing yourself to play out. I wouldn't recommend cutting a song until you've played it for 3-6 months. But I would keep that one. That take isn't magic, it's you and I'm sure you can do it again and again. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 27, 2015 16:20:49 GMT -6
Thanks for the encouragement and solid advice, I believe you're right yotonic, and I will take that under advisement.
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Post by mobeach on Jan 27, 2015 16:25:23 GMT -6
Sometimes things come out of a musician that they're not able to consciously duplicate at another time. I've done things on the fretless bass that I wish I could do now. When you've been playing for 30+ years there's always stages where you've practiced more than others.
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