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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 6, 2014 8:31:39 GMT -6
There shouldn't be any delay for analog equipment, right? That delay adjustment is just for digital products that add additional delay, right?
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 6, 2014 8:36:55 GMT -6
There shouldn't be any delay for analog equipment, right? That delay adjustment is just for digital products that add additional delay, right? That's what I thought, too. Is this not the case? |
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2014 10:08:14 GMT -6
The delay has nothing to do with the analog gear. It's that NONE of these software solutions run in real time. You understand that, right? Everything is buffered to be processed--every time you insert a plug in, it has to adjust the time it plays EVERY track to compensate.
So a hardware insert, the signal goes from the app to the process buffer to the driver's buffer to the interface mixer (they all have'em) which is the routed to a DAC, which incurs ANOTHER delay....then it hits that analog gear which incurs no delay.....but, the output has to then do that all in reverse:
ADC....to interface mixer....to driver buffer....to app to process buffer to put it back into the mixer.
That's the thing that SO many people don't get about why I stayed hardware so long---and went BACK for synths. Nothing in software runs in real time. It's slight of hand. If you don't notice it, your app (the magician) is good. And the faster machines get, the more stumbling blocks we put in the way....USB and FW interfaces add yet ANOTHER OS level buffer compared to PCI/PCIE. They make plug ins that use even bigger buffers. We have Kontakt implementing an input scripting engine--yet ANOTHER process buffer between you hitting a key and a note coming out.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 6, 2014 11:48:48 GMT -6
But the ADC in PT's handles that, you get that, right? Sorry...don't know if that's true, but had to match your smartass comment  |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 6, 2014 12:38:02 GMT -6
There shouldn't be any delay for analog equipment, right? That delay adjustment is just for digital products that add additional delay, right? Correct. The delay compensation is for the different converters used. They all fire a little differently. |
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2014 17:08:00 GMT -6
It's not JUST for the converters. It IS for them....AND the entire not real time buffers of the mixer. The trip across PCIe busses....to USB controllers....or Firewire....to that chipset to hand off to the digital mixer on the interface....but, if that over simplification helps someone understand, cool--any conversion to and from digital WILL cause latency. Period. Forever. Some cause more than others. But, if you're listening to a digital cue, you're literally always making one entire loop--use a digital monitor distribution thing and you might be making and double loop before it gets to your ear. We need to stop using that acronym, ADC as in "automatic delay compensation" in this case I assume rather an any "analog to digital converter" that causes part of that delay  .....it DOES take care of it. Feel free to test it sometime and let me know how well. YMMV. If you do--you can't do it with some new project with on test track. FWIW. You need to load the machine down--a full mix of plugs and auxes and groups....and then insert a compressor (or frankly you can insert a wire from the output to input since the compressor isn't going to cause any latency)....that's the real world test that matters. Not one track with a hardware insert on it. In case you are going to test.... |
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Post by LesC on Dec 7, 2014 4:20:46 GMT -6
I downloaded Cubase 8 64-bit today, it installed no problem on Win 7 64-bit, but it hung up during start-up. Apparently it was loading FabFilter Pro-Q2, so I removed the FabFilter plugins and restarted. This time it hung up while loading Broomstick Bass, so I removed that plugin and restarted. Then it hung up while loading Amplitube 3, so I removed that plugin. It then started successfully. All these plugins worked fine with Cubase 7.5, though Broomstick Bass took a fair bit of massaging to work (Sven Bornemark had given up and was pleasantly surprised when I got it to work). I haven't found a pattern to these non-compatible plugins, there is a mix of 32 and 64-bit and VST2 and VST3. Yet my dozens and dozens of other plugins seem fine. I haven't tried any real trouble-shooting yet, but this has been the most troublesome Cubase upgrade in many years (for me). In case anybody else runs into this, the problem was solved by updating my 1K Multimedia Plugins to latest versions, and getting rid of Broomstick Bass. Cubase 8 starts fine now, the problem had nothing to do with FabFilter. I don't mind getting rid of Broomstick Bass at this point, I've been trying to think of a good excuse to get Spectrasonics Trilian anyway. |
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Post by Guitar on Dec 9, 2014 13:12:30 GMT -6
Longtime cubase user. I'll be upgrading from 7.5 to 8 soon I am sure. I am excited about better efficiency, my PC is a few years old at this point. I have sorely been wanting a render in place function, I estimate I'll be using that a lot. Windows handling I want to be better too, I run into that a lot. Media bay docking on the side of the project window could be cool, as I continue to learn how to work with samples. VCA faders and direct outputs I'm sure will be useful at points. Virgin territories, meh. Plugin Management is something that speaks to me as well, would love some control over that organization. Especially with the UAD plugin fiasco of showing every UAD plugin including ones you don't own. Overall, sounds like some slick upgrades for $99. They seem to have improved almost everything that gave me minor headaches about previous versions. Seems like a pretty powerful modern piece of software with a lot of refinement. Hopefully it won't be too buggy at first.
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 11, 2014 21:59:53 GMT -6
I downloaded Cubase 8 to my Mac a few days ago and haven't experienced anything "buggy" about it yet. Some folks online were saying they had some problems with certain plugins. I'm setting up a new Mac (NOS Mac Mini/Maverick) and migrating all of my plugins to it. I've done quick tests on all of the following in Cubase 8 with zero problems so far: Izotope RX4, Echoboy, Exponential Phoenix Verb, Eventide Ultra Channel and UltraReverb, The Glue, Invisible Limiter, Overtone limiter, pultec and FC70, Valhalla Room, Vintage, and Shimmer, IK Mulitmedia Amplitube 3, and PSP Oldtimer. So far everything works like a charm.
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Post by Randge on Dec 12, 2014 9:26:10 GMT -6
Ah, plugin issues. Even more reason for me to use as much analog gear as feasibly possible.
R
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 12, 2014 13:52:12 GMT -6
Ah, plugin issues. Even more reason for me to use as much analog gear as feasibly possible. R Actually the point of my post was that to date I'm having no plugin issues with Cubase 8--smooth sailing so far. |
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Post by Randge on Dec 12, 2014 15:02:54 GMT -6
That was a more general reply to the group, Ipedrum. I own lots of software plugins, but I am really over them for the most part. Analog is it for me.
R
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Post by matt on Jan 6, 2015 10:03:22 GMT -6
Bumping this thread. I'm going over the logistics of staying on PT, and I don't like the numbers. For me, now would be a good time to convert to Cubase. So, I have some general questions for you Cubase folks:
1. Which is better for Cubase, Mac or Windows? Any advantage of one over the other? Is there a Windows equivalent to OSX's aggregate audio device? (I need this to run my Apogee interfaces).
1a. Any issues with Cubase and Apogee Symphony64?
2. Are there any (recent) plugins that refuse to work?
3. Is there anything missing in Cubase that is in PT 11?
4. How does VariAudio compare to elastic audio in PT? Does Melodyne integrate well?
5. What's it like to work with the equivalent of playlists and build comps off them?
6. What's MIDI like to use and edit? (I'm using an Alesis DM10X kit into BFD3). How is it on latency?
7. Anything else to be aware of? Stability? Resource usage? Etc . . .
Thanks!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2015 11:25:35 GMT -6
Just upgraded for no particular reason.
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Post by matt on Jan 6, 2015 11:43:06 GMT -6
Hmm I don't see a demo version. Darnit.
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Post by Randge on Jan 6, 2015 12:09:03 GMT -6
Bumping this thread. I'm going over the logistics of staying on PT, and I don't like the numbers. For me, now would be a good time to convert to Cubase. So, I have some general questions for you Cubase folks: 1. Which is better for Cubase, Mac or Windows? Any advantage of one over the other? Is there a Windows equivalent to OSX's aggregate audio device? (I need this to run my Apogee interfaces). 1a. Any issues with Cubase and Apogee Symphony64? 2. Are there any (recent) plugins that refuse to work? 3. Is there anything missing in Cubase that is in PT 11? 4. How does VariAudio compare to elastic audio in PT? Does Melodyne integrate well? 5. What's it like to work with the equivalent of playlists and build comps off them? 6. What's MIDI like to use and edit? (I'm using an Alesis DM10X kit into BFD3). How is it on latency? 7. Anything else to be aware of? Stability? Resource usage? Etc . . . Thanks! Cubase will work equally well in both PC and mac formats. I use Apogee converters, so there shouldn't be any difference with the Symphony regarding attachments. You will have to have sound cards. I have never found a plugin that would not load in Cubase that was purchased legally. There is more plugs in Cubase vs PT and every channel has a built in channelstrip, so nothing in PT is going to lack in Cubase. You can use melodyne, but Vari-Audio will do about anything you need it to with the exception of tuning multiple notes at a time. All of this without bogging your computer down as it is built into the program. Comping is far easier as the performances are stacked on top of each other and you can (split into lanes) choose which performance you want without searching through an awful playlist and guessing what might be the best take and going back to the playlist when it isn't. There are lots of youtube tutorials about midi functions and use to let you have an idea what the program can do. Talk to Mike Latterell about computer related setup as he does many computers with Cubase around the Nashville area. 615-500-6628. I would suggest going to Youtube and watching the many tutorials that are free there to understand the program and learn more about it.There is a tutorial on about everything you could imagine related to Cubase and its use. It is a fantastic software program and you will be amazed how much easier/faster it is to run than PT and how much more you can do without having to purchase a single outside plugin. R |
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Post by matt on Jan 6, 2015 12:31:07 GMT -6
Bumping this thread. I'm going over the logistics of staying on PT Cubase will work equally well in both PC and mac formats. . . . It is a fantastic software program and you will be amazed how much easier/faster it is to run than PT and how much more you can do without having to purchase a single outside plugin. R Thanks Randy! This is great information; you've given me a lot of food for thought. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2015 13:09:32 GMT -6
Randy Steinberg. |
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Post by Randge on Jan 6, 2015 13:12:12 GMT -6
I am an endorser. I do feel like it is part of my job to let people know how damn good it really is. I appreciate Steinberg/Yamaha very much and we are a good fit.
R
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Post by Guitar on Jan 6, 2015 16:41:00 GMT -6
I am a big Yamaha/Steinberg fan as well, and Cubase of course. I've got the UR824 interface and all kinds of instruments. You can do a lot with MIDI in Cubase, I do all the time. Very stable on Windows.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2015 18:01:36 GMT -6
Downloading now...gonna do something in it tonight I think.
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.....it DOES take care of it. Feel free to test it sometime and let me know how well. YMMV. If you do--you can't do it with some new project with on test track. FWIW. You need to load the machine down--a full mix of plugs and auxes and groups....and then insert a compressor (or frankly you can insert a wire from the output to input since the compressor isn't going to cause any latency)....that's the real world test that matters. Not one track with a hardware insert on it. In case you are going to test....
