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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 21, 2014 10:16:43 GMT -6
So I kinda need to start thinking about quantities. More quantities mean cheaper unit prices, but I don't want to do a pilot run of 20 and only have like 3 people buy them and be stuck with thousands of $$ worth of units. Depending on the chassis costs, I'm looking at a target of around 300$ sales price for the ADC-to-SPDIF/AES converter. This is around 70$ less than R-M's ADC converters. I have subtracted the optical output as this is not industry accepted for the most part, but I have added the LCD and control system so nobody has to go inside and flip a bunch of tiny switches. Also, the units will have an expansion option for the DAC, to keep upgrade costs down. You'll open the unit, pop out a couple plastic hole covers, screw in the new board and be done(that's the plan anyway). This will keep you from having to buy a separate converter box like R-M has you do. So should I start another thread asking about interested parties, or just have them sound off in this thread? I would start another thread. Any idea what the DAC expansion cost will be? I assume that the ADC and DAC cost is about the same, but the LCD, power supply, and case will already be provided, so not much to expand to the DAC too? |
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 10:20:13 GMT -6
So I kinda need to start thinking about quantities. More quantities mean cheaper unit prices, but I don't want to do a pilot run of 20 and only have like 3 people buy them and be stuck with thousands of $$ worth of units. Depending on the chassis costs, I'm looking at a target of around 300$ sales price for the ADC-to-SPDIF/AES converter. This is around 70$ less than R-M's ADC converters. I have subtracted the optical output as this is not industry accepted for the most part, but I have added the LCD and control system so nobody has to go inside and flip a bunch of tiny switches. Also, the units will have an expansion option for the DAC, to keep upgrade costs down. You'll open the unit, pop out a couple plastic hole covers, screw in the new board and be done(that's the plan anyway). This will keep you from having to buy a separate converter box like R-M has you do. So should I start another thread asking about interested parties, or just have them sound off in this thread? I would start another thread. Any idea what the DAC expansion cost will be? I assume that the ADC and DAC cost is about the same, but the LCD, power supply, and case will already be provided, so not much to expand to the DAC too? I haven't looked at the DAC stuff yet, but I estimate around 100$ for the upgrade. An option might be to make the DAC able to be run on it's own in the same chassis so a person who only needs one or the other can just use buy what they need. If I decide that the ADC is always the master and the DAC must always be used in conjunction, then I might be able to shave more costs off. I don't necessarily want to do that though. I'd rather have a small cost increase but keep the customer's options open. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 21, 2014 10:28:02 GMT -6
So I kinda need to start thinking about quantities. More quantities mean cheaper unit prices, but I don't want to do a pilot run of 20 and only have like 3 people buy them and be stuck with thousands of $$ worth of units. Depending on the chassis costs, I'm looking at a target of around 300$ sales price for the ADC-to-SPDIF/AES converter. This is around 70$ less than R-M's ADC converters. I have subtracted the optical output as this is not industry accepted for the most part, but I have added the LCD and control system so nobody has to go inside and flip a bunch of tiny switches. Also, the units will have an expansion option for the DAC, to keep upgrade costs down. You'll open the unit, pop out a couple plastic hole covers, screw in the new board and be done(that's the plan anyway). This will keep you from having to buy a separate converter box like R-M has you do. So should I start another thread asking about interested parties, or just have them sound off in this thread? I would be in, but I just realized the Alphalink has no spdif, so I guess I don't have a way to hook it up.... unless I'm missing something? Never used a dedicated AD converter. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Nov 21, 2014 11:04:16 GMT -6
What have you selected for the ADC chipsets? ESS or BB? I prefer the PCM/DSD4222 myself. The PCM1974 still reigns supreme here for a DAC if you use a pair per side, sign/cosine config. It also stll has the best dynamic range, -132 dbu.
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 12:05:02 GMT -6
So I kinda need to start thinking about quantities. More quantities mean cheaper unit prices, but I don't want to do a pilot run of 20 and only have like 3 people buy them and be stuck with thousands of $$ worth of units. Depending on the chassis costs, I'm looking at a target of around 300$ sales price for the ADC-to-SPDIF/AES converter. This is around 70$ less than R-M's ADC converters. I have subtracted the optical output as this is not industry accepted for the most part, but I have added the LCD and control system so nobody has to go inside and flip a bunch of tiny switches. Also, the units will have an expansion option for the DAC, to keep upgrade costs down. You'll open the unit, pop out a couple plastic hole covers, screw in the new board and be done(that's the plan anyway). This will keep you from having to buy a separate converter box like R-M has you do. So should I start another thread asking about interested parties, or just have them sound off in this thread? I would be in, but I just realized the Alphalink has no spdif, so I guess I don't have a way to hook it up.... unless I'm missing something? Never used a dedicated AD converter. It doesn't. Do you have the ADAT version of Alphalink? |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 21, 2014 12:09:14 GMT -6
I would be in, but I just realized the Alphalink has no spdif, so I guess I don't have a way to hook it up.... unless I'm missing something? Never used a dedicated AD converter. It doesn't. Do you have the ADAT version of Alphalink? I have the AX with MADI/ADAT. |
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 12:15:32 GMT -6
What have you selected for the ADC chipsets? ESS or BB? I prefer the PCM/DSD4222 myself. The PCM1974 still reigns supreme here for a DAC if you use a pair per side, sign/cosine config. It also stll has the best dynamic range, -132 dbu. The ADC board was designed around the PCM4222. The DAC board has yet to be designed, and will use either the PCM1794 or the PCM1798 depending on testing and costs. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 14:55:16 GMT -6
So total cost $300? I'm in...
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 14:58:25 GMT -6
If you want to make a feeler/order thread, I'll pin it at the top. Just give a short recap on the product, connections, chips used, etc... BTW - are there good and bad SPDIF implementations? I know the one on my Symphony could be a little shaky. I use W/C for my Burl...(But I'm hoping you can allow me to sell my Burl because of the pristine goodness from the RGO Speedwagon  ) |
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:02:30 GMT -6
If you want to make a feeler/order thread, I'll pin it at the top. Just give a short recap on the product, connections, chips used, etc... BTW - are there good and bad SPDIF implementations? I know the one on my Symphony could be a little shaky. I use W/C for my Burl...(But I'm hoping you can allow me to sell my Burl because of the pristine goodness from the RGO Speedwagon ) There is another thread I started a little while ago! I suppose there are good and bad implementations, especially if the clocking has a software component. This one is all hardware. The ADC derives a clock for the data from a very high quality oscillator. The DAC board will use the clock recovered from the data stream to drive the reference for a internal PLL that will clock the DAC IC itself. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 15:06:21 GMT -6
Er...you scientists be smart. Do it werk?
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:08:17 GMT -6
Er...you scientists be smart. Do it werk? As long as I didn't screw something up, yes it'll work and do it with class. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 15:10:21 GMT -6
BTW - I see that it's 1/4 TRS. Is that any kind of compromise? For some reason I always considered XLR to be of higher quality. Is that not the case?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 21, 2014 15:13:52 GMT -6
So svart. Just to be totally straight here. These are basically top flight converters that you're doing right? Right up there with the top of the market. I can take my cheap, portable, Focusrite USB interface and hang your AD/DA off the S/PDIF in and out and have a top flight master deck? I'll be running the mix out of my console into this AD and monitoring through this DA for world class conversion. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 15:21:01 GMT -6
I can say this - I really thought the Ross Martin 1794 DAC was going to be too good to be true...but it wasn't. I like it better than the Symphony...I believe Svart is using the exact same chip. Now - I don't know Svart - but damn, if he doesn't know what he's doing, then he's a damn good liar But then again, my level of electrical engineering ends with plugging into the wall socket. If I didn't own a Ross Martin, I might be skeptical, but believe me, if they are using the same chips and don't fall apart, then they are absolutely worth every penny. |
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:21:32 GMT -6
So svart. Just to be totally straight here. These are basically top flight converters that you're doing right? Right up there with the top of the market. I can take my cheap, portable, Focusrite USB interface and hang your AD/DA off the S/PDIF in and out and have a top flight master deck? I'll be running the mix out of my console into this AD and monitoring through this DA for world class conversion. That's the basic idea, yeah. An affordable but somewhat barebones AD/SPDIF and SPDIF/DA system for those who just want no-frills converters. The SPDIF system inside your computer will still dictate things like latency to some degree. The SPDIF input should be set up so that the ADC will be the master clock. The DAC will slave itself to the SPDIF data stream that comes from the SPDIF source. |
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:23:40 GMT -6
BTW - I see that it's 1/4 TRS. Is that any kind of compromise? For some reason I always considered XLR to be of higher quality. Is that not the case? There's 3 contact points in either connector.. Not much of an electrical difference between them. The biggest difference is simply the mechanical layout of the contacts. The XLR connector might have a higher isolation due to the layout, but in a differential system it probably won't matter much. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Nov 21, 2014 15:27:15 GMT -6
I got a blurb about a new jitter blocker chip from www.micrel.comThey require no external components, just feed a clock and go. They offer multiplication of the incoming clock signal up to 850 mhz. Low cost, SOT-23 sized. The PL902 will reduce large input jitter to 100 ps. Feed it a cleaner 460 ps clock and that is reduced to 75 ps. |
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:27:42 GMT -6
I can say this - I really thought the Ross Martin 1794 DAC was going to be too good to be true...but it wasn't. I like it better than the Symphony...I believe Svart is using the exact same chip. Now - I don't know Svart - but damn, if he doesn't know what he's doing, then he's a damn good liar But then again, my level of electrical engineering ends with plugging into the wall socket. If I didn't own a Ross Martin, I might be skeptical, but believe me, if they are using the same chips and don't fall apart, then they are absolutely worth every penny. Yeah, I've perused the internet looking for AD/DA chip options. I've used AKM and Cirrus converters before, and they make nice products, but the TI parts just made life easier as far as a hardware based approach was concerned. I'm not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination. I can do what needs to be done but nothing more, so the more simple the firmware can be, the better. And yes, as somewhat of a potential competitor to RM, I'll be using the same chips.. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 15:31:54 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:33:45 GMT -6
I got a blurb about a new jitter blocker chip from www.micrel.comThey require no external components, just feed a clock and go. They offer multiplication of the incoming clock signal up to 850 mhz. Low cost, SOT-23 sized. The PL902 will reduce large input jitter to 100 ps. Feed it a cleaner 460 ps clock and that is reduced to 75 ps. I've used Micrel before, mainly in the optical clocking and clock recovery for SDH world. They work well, but don't offer many CMOS I/O options anymore. I've mainly gone LVPECL for most of my clocking work these days, but these boards will use good old (LV)CMOS clocks. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Nov 21, 2014 15:38:20 GMT -6
It is English, techno-speak. Didn't you watch Star Trek? |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 21, 2014 15:50:11 GMT -6
Any chance of ADAT compatibility in the future? Can't believe the alphalink has 8,000 I/O and no spdif....
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Post by svart on Nov 21, 2014 15:53:13 GMT -6
Any chance of ADAT compatibility in the future? Can't believe the alphalink has 8,000 I/O and no spdif.... I'll see what i can do. Adat is a proprietary format, So you only have a few options for the chips, and their availability. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Nov 21, 2014 15:55:15 GMT -6
Any chance of ADAT compatibility in the future? Can't believe the alphalink has 8,000 I/O and no spdif.... I'll see what i can do. Adat is a proprietary format, So you only have a few options for the chips, and their availability. Cool -- thanks for checking. I'll definitely be in for AD and DA if you can make it happen. |
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