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Post by kidvybes on Oct 17, 2014 14:21:04 GMT -6
...let's not forget what makes the GroupDIY community unique...yes, most of these "classic clone" mics start with a historic schematic, but guys like Max (ioaudio) and Dany (poctop) who are developing these PCB/kits are experienced mic builders, are by no means, novice DIY tinkerers...their products are then tested by other DIY members who choose to build (or have mics built for them), some of whom are pro engineers/musicians, thus any obvious issues are generally sorted out and perfected (like a super beta-test system) via the input of those who can offer a higher level of expertise...different sources for components are sourced, tested and sussed out...capsules, transformers, caps and resisters, even headbasket resonances are addressed on the stock DIY bodies...
...then there's input from forum members who happen to be respected industry pros like David Bock, Oliver Archut, Mark Fauxman, etc...Oliver Archut chose Dany Bouchard to design the PCBs for the TAB/Funkenwerks clone mics (C12, U47, M49, etc)...so these clones are not the work of one or two people, but ultimately the product of a very talented and inspired community of builders, musicians, engineers, etc...
...and then one has to keep in mind that electronics like tube-mics, in particular, have a curing process, or constant "burn-in" which over extended hours of use, tends to smooth out some of the resonances common to newly manufactured gear...so judging the quality of these clones has less to do with how much they resemble in a sonic sense, some 40-50 year-old example, but rather how these new recreations perform in a professional environment, in the hands of experienced pros...which leads me to:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/herb-music/rubberband
...so, if someone like Shane (Category5) can offer a mic of that quality for a fair price, it's been my experience that there's a number of GroupDIY members who could offer reliable, quality build service...but I agree, offering a warranty is a necessity...each of the builders I purchased from were willing to offer any necessary tweaks or repairs, and if shipping distance was an issue, pay to have another respected DIY member in closer proximity, service the mic assuming the issue was not due to abuse or miss-use (as with any gear warranty)...
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Post by kidvybes on Oct 17, 2014 14:29:04 GMT -6
...after all, this is the way Dave Pearlman, David Bock, Chuck Dickinson (Cathedral Pipes), Ben Sneesby (BeezNeez), and many other respected pro mic builders started out, and without the support of an entire community of beta-testers...
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Post by jimwilliams on Oct 18, 2014 9:10:27 GMT -6
Those people have been at this for several years. It's a little late to come to this party, it's almost over. The field is oversaturated with so called mic experts and their 'designs'. Most are re-rolled designs from the past that offer little that's new.
Maybe talk to the guys over at microphone-parts as they are selling kits, parts and mics too. If you can compete against that, you may be successful. Otherwise, build a few for yourself and enjoy using them.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 22, 2014 19:33:53 GMT -6
Here's a question - are some of the old mic bodies protected by patent? I assume only the U67 since the body is still in production.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 22, 2014 19:58:39 GMT -6
They can be registered as trademarks which never expire.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 22, 2014 20:57:25 GMT -6
They can be registered as trademarks which never expire. you mean the name "U67" right Bob? unless i'm sadly mistaken, a design patent is only good for 17 1/2 years, at which point anyone can copy the design and release it under their own label. I often wonder if the U87 design was somehow an extension to the U67 design allowing them to hang on to it longer? but that would've run out by now also.... unless i'm wrong about this, which would be pretty sad considering i was awarded an US/international patent lol. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 22, 2014 21:36:48 GMT -6
The physical appearance can be trademarked. The legal test is if the appearance might confuse a potential buyer about the manufacturer. It has nothing to do with patents. It also needs to be defended or a court could declare it to be in the public domain.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 22, 2014 21:48:56 GMT -6
I've often wondered how come there are so many clones of preamps and mics that refer to the original. How is it that a manufacturer can make something like a spitting image clone compressor, and not get sued for copyright infringement?
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 22, 2014 21:54:18 GMT -6
The physical appearance can be trademarked. The legal test is if the appearance might confuse a potential buyer about the manufacturer. It has nothing to do with patents. It also needs to be defended or a court could declare it to be in the public domain. You are the best Sir Bob! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 22, 2014 22:01:21 GMT -6
I've often wondered how come there are so many clones of preamps and mics that refer to the original. How is it that a manufacturer can make something like a spitting image clone compressor, and not get sued for copyright infringement? [br During somebody is the only way most get to defend their intellectual property is to sue some like Major League Baseball get the Feds to raid a small shop using a logo on panties. These law suites are long and expensive , often won buy simply by who's lawyers can delay longer than the life of most humans... Then even if you win there is the next step trying to collect you due! |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 22, 2014 22:54:49 GMT -6
During the 1950s a lot of the patents on gear expired. Likewise some trademarks such as Pultec lapsed over the '70s due to lack of use.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 23, 2014 6:34:18 GMT -6
Interesting, thanks Bob, that makes sense. .
I wonder if someone built say.. a complete replica of a 57' T-Bird if that would be infringement on patents. I guess it's just a matter of how long the original rights are held.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 23, 2014 7:52:03 GMT -6
Those people have been at this for several years. It's a little late to come to this party, it's almost over. The field is oversaturated with so called mic experts and their 'designs'. Most are re-rolled designs from the past that offer little that's new. Maybe talk to the guys over at microphone-parts as they are selling kits, parts and mics too. If you can compete against that, you may be successful. Otherwise, build a few for yourself and enjoy using them. Yeah but Max(iaudio) is like Walter White. Nobody cooks like him  |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 23, 2014 10:29:29 GMT -6
Patents and trademarks are two completely different things. Trademarks have to do with the identity of a manufacturer. Anybody reproducing a 57 t-Bird would probably be looking at a trademark infringement lawsuit from Ford. Performers have service marks which work the same way.
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Post by ericn on Oct 23, 2014 11:00:28 GMT -6
Interesting, thanks Bob, that makes sense. . I wonder if someone built say.. a complete replica of a 57' T-Bird if that would be infringement on patents. I guess it's just a matter of how long the original rights are held. You mean these guys www.regalroadsters.com/Passed their shop everyday to work for years, a mile down the street from my all time favorite Budget studio of all time John Machniks Sleepless nights. To this day considering the room and the gear John is was one of the most talented RE 's I have ever known! We would talk audio for hours! |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 23, 2014 13:03:35 GMT -6
Those people have been at this for several years. It's a little late to come to this party, it's almost over. The field is oversaturated with so called mic experts and their 'designs'. Most are re-rolled designs from the past that offer little that's new. Maybe talk to the guys over at microphone-parts as they are selling kits, parts and mics too. If you can compete against that, you may be successful. Otherwise, build a few for yourself and enjoy using them. Yeah but Max(iaudio) is like Walter White. Nobody cooks like him you're aware he's coming out with a 67 right? ughh ohhh lol  groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=57088.0 |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 23, 2014 13:04:36 GMT -6
That's cool ericn, thanks. I suppose as long as they don't say it's a Ford and use Ford emblems it's legal.
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Post by ericn on Oct 23, 2014 13:44:08 GMT -6
That's cool ericn, thanks. I suppose as long as they don't say it's a Ford and use Ford emblems it's legal. It's been years since I talked to the guys, but if my memory is correct they have a very cordial relationship with ford, in fact when ford did the modern 57 that was fugly dealers where sending guys who want something more real to these guys! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 23:27:08 GMT -6
Down the line this could be a good option for me, not right now but I might want a pair of LDCs for overheads
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