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Post by geoff738 on Nov 3, 2024 15:55:39 GMT -6
Kawai makes a fine piano. My first job in high school was working for a keyboard shop that sold Kawai. This would be 1980 give or take.
But for a commercial recording place, Yamaha. Just way higher name recognition and they also happen to make a fine piano.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 3, 2024 17:48:36 GMT -6
Kawai makes a fine piano. My first job in high school was working for a keyboard shop that sold Kawai. This would be 1980 give or take. But for a commercial recording place, Yamaha. Just way higher name recognition and they also happen to make a fine piano. Cheers, Geoff Totally agree. Kawai pianos seem to be very underrated (evidently) but I can assure you that they are a breeze to play and sound great. Nonetheless, Yamaha is certainly "can't go wrong". I myself am a Yamaha guy. |
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 3, 2024 19:04:02 GMT -6
I think we'll probably go Yamaha thanks to this thread. The extra cost will probably get paid for pretty quick with bookings, so I really appreciate the feedback and insight here. Thanks!!!
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Post by mcirish on Nov 3, 2024 21:47:25 GMT -6
I think we'll probably go Yamaha thanks to this thread. The extra cost will probably get paid for pretty quick with bookings, so I really appreciate the feedback and insight here. Thanks!!! Can't go wrong. If I take off the covers and mic the bottom section, I can get a U3 to sound like a grand. Really great. The only thing I don't like is tuning. It just eats up so much time and has to be done before sessions. |
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Post by aremos on Nov 3, 2024 22:49:41 GMT -6
Sometimes used Steinways show up at very reasonable prices. But yes, either Steinway or Yamaha ... or Bösendorfer.
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Post by christopher on Nov 4, 2024 0:16:08 GMT -6
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ji43
Junior Member
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Post by ji43 on Nov 4, 2024 8:12:45 GMT -6
Recently purchased a Yamaha U3 and about to track it for the first time. Due to the setup in my small space, I'm going to be micing about 12" out from the hammers, with all the front covers off (both top and bottom).
Choices are a pair of Neumann M49v and Coles 4038s. Anyone have experienced with LDCs vs Ribbons, and can speak to their experience, preferences?
While I can't mic from the rear of the piano in my room, I do lean more towards desiring a "grand" type of sound than an upright (which is why I went with a U3 instead of a U1).
Will share my results later, as I'm sure my choice will be context dependant; but my plan today is to try the 4038s, and then the M49v in all polar patterns. Perhaps omni will soften the sound and bring it more into the darker realm of a grand...or the Coles will darken it perfectly. Let's see!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 4, 2024 13:11:37 GMT -6
Sometimes used Steinways show up at very reasonable prices. But yes, either Steinway or Yamaha ... or Bösendorfer. Yeah, my piano guy used to always say the same thing when someone would call about him inspecting a cheap Steinway or Bosendorf. “ already seen it, it’s cheap, but if I show you what we worked up to make it decent, you will buy a new one, & we don’t sell new pianos.” Everyone thinks nothing can go wrong with that gorgeous piano just sitting in the living room, never being played, tuned and no water in the humidity control system. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 4, 2024 21:59:43 GMT -6
Recently purchased a Yamaha U3 and about to track it for the first time. Due to the setup in my small space, I'm going to be micing about 12" out from the hammers, with all the front covers off (both top and bottom). Choices are a pair of Neumann M49v and Coles 4038s. Anyone have experienced with LDCs vs Ribbons, and can speak to their experience, preferences? While I can't mic from the rear of the piano in my room, I do lean more towards desiring a "grand" type of sound than an upright (which is why I went with a U3 instead of a U1). Will share my results later, as I'm sure my choice will be context dependant; but my plan today is to try the 4038s, and then the M49v in all polar patterns. Perhaps omni will soften the sound and bring it more into the darker realm of a grand...or the Coles will darken it perfectly. Let's see! Ribbons are my fave mic for piano. Although I'm mostly using them on a Grands. I have a unique bizarrely bastardized fig-8 setup that I use. Long thread about the setup on the "Other" site. |
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Post by mcirish on Nov 5, 2024 14:08:08 GMT -6
Recently purchased a Yamaha U3 and about to track it for the first time. Due to the setup in my small space, I'm going to be micing about 12" out from the hammers, with all the front covers off (both top and bottom). Choices are a pair of Neumann M49v and Coles 4038s. Anyone have experienced with LDCs vs Ribbons, and can speak to their experience, preferences? While I can't mic from the rear of the piano in my room, I do lean more towards desiring a "grand" type of sound than an upright (which is why I went with a U3 instead of a U1). Will share my results later, as I'm sure my choice will be context dependant; but my plan today is to try the 4038s, and then the M49v in all polar patterns. Perhaps omni will soften the sound and bring it more into the darker realm of a grand...or the Coles will darken it perfectly. Let's see! Mic a U3 on the bottom (about half way between the floor and keybed, out about 1-2 or so) with the covers off. Then a ribbon on the top, but not pointing at the hammers. To me, that sounds fantastic. I've done multiple albums that way. The only trick is to wrap the damper pedal in a soft towel so shoes don't get picked up. Also, the damper mechanism needs to be adjusted so it doesn't "clunk". I've used U67, MC930 and AT4050 on the bottom and it sounded great. The U67 was my favorite. |
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ji43
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Post by ji43 on Nov 6, 2024 7:16:25 GMT -6
Recently purchased a Yamaha U3 and about to track it for the first time. Due to the setup in my small space, I'm going to be micing about 12" out from the hammers, with all the front covers off (both top and bottom). Choices are a pair of Neumann M49v and Coles 4038s. Anyone have experienced with LDCs vs Ribbons, and can speak to their experience, preferences? While I can't mic from the rear of the piano in my room, I do lean more towards desiring a "grand" type of sound than an upright (which is why I went with a U3 instead of a U1). Will share my results later, as I'm sure my choice will be context dependant; but my plan today is to try the 4038s, and then the M49v in all polar patterns. Perhaps omni will soften the sound and bring it more into the darker realm of a grand...or the Coles will darken it perfectly. Let's see! Ribbons are my fave mic for piano. Although I'm mostly using them on a Grands. I have a unique bizarrely bastardized fig-8 setup that I use. Long thread about the setup on the "Other" site. Any tips for EQing ribbons on piano? The Coles sound incredible. Could use a bit of a high end lift, perhaps cleaning up some lows? Is there a typically frequency range to boost on a high shelf, or cut on a HPF? Preferring the 4038s to the M49s for bringing out the qualities of the U3 I like; just need to bring out some more clarity. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 6, 2024 12:09:57 GMT -6
Ribbons are my fave mic for piano. Although I'm mostly using them on a Grands. I have a unique bizarrely bastardized fig-8 setup that I use. Long thread about the setup on the "Other" site. Any tips for EQing ribbons on piano? The Coles sound incredible. Could use a bit of a high end lift, perhaps cleaning up some lows? Is there a typically frequency range to boost on a high shelf, or cut on a HPF? Preferring the 4038s to the M49s for bringing out the qualities of the U3 I like; just need to bring out some more clarity. It of course depends on the piano, room, placement, etc.. But maybe a high shelf lift up around 12k? But somewhere between 320 and 400 Hz? Just guessing as I'm not there. For me, the Coles are excellent for solo piano that's not too "busy" or dense. If it's busy or dense, I'll switch to my Joly modded 205's which are not as "thick". |
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ji43
Junior Member
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Post by ji43 on Nov 6, 2024 12:42:08 GMT -6
Any tips for EQing ribbons on piano? The Coles sound incredible. Could use a bit of a high end lift, perhaps cleaning up some lows? Is there a typically frequency range to boost on a high shelf, or cut on a HPF? Preferring the 4038s to the M49s for bringing out the qualities of the U3 I like; just need to bring out some more clarity. It of course depends on the piano, room, placement, etc.. But maybe a high shelf lift up around 12k? But somewhere between 320 and 400 Hz? Just guessing as I'm not there. For me, the Coles are excellent for solo piano that's not too "busy" or dense. If it's busy or dense, I'll switch to my Joly modded 205's which are not as "thick". Thanks for the insight. Productions are sparse, so I think the 4038s will work. The only issue I'm experiencing now with both sets of mics, is that the piano is sounding a bit "washy"; even though the mics are about 12" from the hammers it's a bit "distant" sounding; almost like the reverberations of the piano/sustain pedal are mixed higher than the direct signal. I'm tracking in a small treated space, so it's relatively dead in here; (6" clouds, bass traps, etc). The room is well balanced and not totally dead, but it's not a big live room where the piano excites the room and plays into the sound at the source. This has worked wonderfully on acoustic guitars, and vocals (adding reverb for ambience)...though I'm wondering how this might contribute to the sound of the piano when close mic'd. I did try it in my large open floor plan great room prior to this, and the piano was definitely being excited by the room; much louder, and lots of natural ambience...I moved it into the treated room because it felt too reverberant. Now it seems the "reverb/ambience" is primarily coming from the body of the piano, and I wonder how that might be contributing to this "less direct" sound on the recording. FYI behind the piano is a large 6x4x6.5" bass trap, but covered with sheets of pegboard, so the piano is still in front of a reflective surface; but not just against the wall. I could try removing this trap, or even removing the pegboard and seeing if the trap without reflective surfaces helps? Though I've heard it's a good idea to have the rear of the piano against a harder surface. Any thoughts/suggestions on how the room/source might be contributing to my issue and how to best solve it? BTW, I assumed I'd prefer the M49s because I anticipated a more direct/clear sound (as I find with acoustic guitars); but in this case the M49s and the 4038s are both less direct; the 4038s are preferred because the midrange is richer and fuller, and they take some of the "upright" quality out of the recording, which I prefer. 49s on omni also helps get rid of some of that "upright thing" ; cardiod is a bit clearer, but definitely sounds like an upright, which I'm trying to lean more towards a darker/grand type sound. |
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Post by M57 on Nov 6, 2024 17:30:41 GMT -6
Whatever you choose, play it. I went with a Kawaii over all the Yamahas I auditioned - it was an easy decision for me. Loved the action, the sound.. everything. Hopefully the Yamahas sound better to you, because like like someone said earlier, was it drbill ??, perception is important if you're trying to attract clients. |
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ji43
Junior Member
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Post by ji43 on Nov 6, 2024 19:20:57 GMT -6
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Post by dok on Nov 7, 2024 11:51:08 GMT -6
Lots of people prefer to take the front panel off, but I like to keep it on - just sounds more real. I use M160s about an inch inside, pointed straight down, and you'll have to determine how wide you want your stereo spread. I put those through an AEA RPQ2 and it sounds glorious! |
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Post by Bark Bark Dog on Nov 7, 2024 15:39:45 GMT -6
A place local to me has a U3 that records really well. The studio owner passed on a tip that works great to add clarity to counterbalance the ‘washy’ front mics (LDCs, usually TLM170s, top front panel removed). A pair of phase flipped SM57s on the rear. Works a treat to give definition. I add a decent mono omni in the centre of the front (DPA 4006 here) to pull it all together.
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