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Post by bgrotto on Nov 2, 2024 12:24:33 GMT -6
Considering a piano purchase, in the neighborhood of 7ft. A local guy has a Kawai KG5 for sale that we're eyeing, but I wanted to poll the locals here to see what y'all think might actually bring piano-centric business in. Is Kawai a brand that players are attracted to? Would we be better off with the more standard Yamaha C-something (which is the piano I am most familiar with in terms of studio use)?
Thoughts?
Thanks!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 2, 2024 13:26:17 GMT -6
Yamaha U1 insane bang for the buck. I see them used around here for just $3000 or $4000 which is a really good price for such a quality instrument. Great piano and easy to mic. U3 same but taller.
Kawai's tend to be bright but not in a bad way. I usually like the action on a Kawai. I like the Yamaha action too.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 2, 2024 13:29:13 GMT -6
I just looked up the Kawai model that you were looking at, looks great. My take is that people that know pianos would want to record on that but people that don't know pianos don't know anything other than Steinway.
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 2, 2024 13:42:18 GMT -6
Yamaha U1 insane bang for the buck. I see them used around here for just $3000 or $4000 which is a really good price for such a quality instrument. Great piano and easy to mic. U3 same but taller. Kawai's tend to be bright but not in a bad way. I usually like the action on a Kawai. I like the Yamaha action too. We've got a U3 at my studio now. It's fabulous sounding. I've lost count of the number of pianists who've sneered (or grimaced!) when they first see it, only to eventually gush about the action and especially the sound. It records so well. But! I only get that feedback AFTER they play it, so it's not exactly selling studio time. Most of my jazz pianist friends/clients/colleagues have told me that if we want to book piano studio time, we need a proper piano. Hence, the hunt being on for a non-upright. Thanks much for the input! I appreciate your notes, and your thoughts about the sonics and action on the Kawai. |
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Post by keymod on Nov 2, 2024 13:44:42 GMT -6
Nothing beats a Yamaha C......
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Post by dok on Nov 2, 2024 14:23:15 GMT -6
Piano player here. I'm really surprised that anybody would consider a U3 less than a proper piano. I'd LOVE to have one of those, instead I have a trusty P22 which is itself a fantastic instrument and very easy to record. I think Yamaha makes absolutely fantastic pianos and would be thrilled with a C series (or a U3). Nothing wrong with Kawai either, but I'd be more excited about the Yamah.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,082 
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Post by ericn on Nov 2, 2024 14:28:19 GMT -6
Nothing beats a Yamaha C...... Yeah nobody usually smears at the Yamaha Grands, I’m saying the Kawaii isn’t as good , but it’s going to be more work to sell to the client. The funny thing is the best sounding grands I have heard are all by a bunch of small USA Builders that disappeared in the 20-30’s. Here is the the ironic lesson I learned booking studios, just like any instrument it really did mean much what it was but the care it got. The tell was always if I called and enquired about the piano and the booker could quickly list the name of a tuner or 2 they used regularly that was where I was going to book, be it a Samick, Steinway, Yamaha Baldwin etc! Maybe it’s a lesson learned from spending to much time working on stages while the tuner is at work, but they all have their own little issues, always best to have someone who knows the instrument. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 2, 2024 14:51:59 GMT -6
Piano player here. I'm really surprised that anybody would consider a U3 less than a proper piano. I'd LOVE to have one of those, instead I have a trusty P22 which is itself a fantastic instrument and very easy to record. I think Yamaha makes absolutely fantastic pianos and would be thrilled with a C series (or a U3). Nothing wrong with Kawai either, but I'd be more excited about the Yamah. I've posted this elsewhere but my proudest gear purchase was a U1 I got from an elementary school music department liquidation. $1500. Just a fantastic piano. A little less richness than the U3 but I think it's actually easier to record for that reason. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 2, 2024 15:08:22 GMT -6
C series all the way. For the win.
Every piano is a unique beast, but in terms of draw, the Kawai is not going to pull in clients. The Yamaha will (as long as you have legit clients that need a real piano - and as long as you don't choose a dog - rare.)
The other option is of course a Steinway, but IMO, if it was my money, I'd be buying a C7 or maybe a C9.
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 2, 2024 15:25:46 GMT -6
C series all the way. For the win. Every piano is a unique beast, but in terms of draw, the Kawai is not going to pull in clients. The Yamaha will (as long as you have legit clients that need a real piano - and as long as you don't choose a dog - rare.) The other option is of course a Steinway, but IMO, if it was my money, I'd be buying a C7 or maybe a C9. Steinway is gonna be way out of our price range pending some miracle, and probably frankly overkill considering our usual clientele. Wish it weren't so, though! Not totally sure we have the space for a C9 in the new room, so we're probably going to keep the instrument closer to 7'. I'll poke around for some used C7s. Thanks for the insight, Bill! |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 2, 2024 15:57:31 GMT -6
For anything not classical music - Yamaha all day everyday.
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Post by christophert on Nov 2, 2024 16:19:13 GMT -6
I have an 80's U3 here, and it blows everyone away how great it sound and records.
I agree with the others here - find a great sounding Yamaha grand - avoid the Kawai, serious players consider them a big step down.
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Post by drbill on Nov 2, 2024 16:25:23 GMT -6
Steinway is gonna be way out of our price range pending some miracle, and probably frankly overkill considering our usual clientele. Wish it weren't so, though! Not totally sure we have the space for a C9 in the new room, so we're probably going to keep the instrument closer to 7'. I'll poke around for some used C7s. Thanks for the insight, Bill! You bet. Honestly, although I love the thunderous bottom of the C9, the C7 would be MUCH easier to find and is a much better use of money, and the perfect draw for 90% of potential piano requesting clients. As mentioned, the Steinway is a great call for classical purists, and some jazz guys, but MOST (not all) of your clients would probably be thrilled with a well maintained C7. |
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Post by notneeson on Nov 2, 2024 17:35:28 GMT -6
Don’t forget to water the Yamaha!
(Refill the humidifier, that is).
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Post by bossanova on Nov 2, 2024 18:14:36 GMT -6
I grew up playing a Yamaha C5…I think? 90s Disklavier and everything. Wonderful instrument. Whenever my piano playing friends would come over they usually said it was the nicest feeling and sounding piano they had ever played. I still make sure to get some time on it whenever I go home to visit my parents. If I had the money I would buy one for myself, no question.
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Post by dok on Nov 2, 2024 18:25:18 GMT -6
I've posted this elsewhere but my proudest gear purchase was a U1 I got from an elementary school music department liquidation. $1500. Just a fantastic piano. A little less richness than the U3 but I think it's actually easier to record for that reason. Damn, that's a great deal! I got my P22 for $1200. It's the "institutional model", built for schools and churches, which means it's very sturdy and has a very familiar tone, and it's easy to service. But one day I'd love to have a U-series or a C-series! |
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Post by smashlord on Nov 2, 2024 21:43:54 GMT -6
I only have experience with a C3 and I guess I am the odd man out not really being wowed by it. I always found it to be dark and the attack to be a bit aggressive once you brightened it up sufficiently to sit in a mix. Maybe its big brothers are different.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 2, 2024 22:58:53 GMT -6
Yamaha all day. I record Steinways pretty much for my main living. But I still like a good yamaha for other genres.
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Post by daddyq on Nov 3, 2024 6:33:46 GMT -6
piano player also here.
I'd consider getting Yamaha C5~C7 for studio usage if I run a studio.
I have Kawai Grand which I like, it's darker than Yamaha. but I think for general purpose Yamaha is better, for my ears anyway. I'm trading my grand for two Yamaha upright (one U3 and one for small upright for home, mostly for myself noodling and for kids.)
if you can stretch your budget to C7 that would be great.
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Post by damoongo on Nov 3, 2024 7:02:43 GMT -6
Nothing beats a Yamaha C...... Except a Steinway B |
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Post by damoongo on Nov 3, 2024 7:09:02 GMT -6
Yamaha U1 insane bang for the buck. I see them used around here for just $3000 or $4000 which is a really good price for such a quality instrument. Great piano and easy to mic. U3 same but taller. Kawai's tend to be bright but not in a bad way. I usually like the action on a Kawai. I like the Yamaha action too. We've got a U3 at my studio now. It's fabulous sounding. I've lost count of the number of pianists who've sneered (or grimaced!) when they first see it, only to eventually gush about the action and especially the sound. It records so well. But! I only get that feedback AFTER they play it, so it's not exactly selling studio time. Most of my jazz pianist friends/clients/colleagues have told me that if we want to book piano studio time, we need a proper piano. Hence, the hunt being on for a non-upright. Thanks much for the input! I appreciate your notes, and your thoughts about the sonics and action on the Kawai. What’s your preferred mic setup on your U3? |
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 3, 2024 8:22:35 GMT -6
We've got a U3 at my studio now. It's fabulous sounding. I've lost count of the number of pianists who've sneered (or grimaced!) when they first see it, only to eventually gush about the action and especially the sound. It records so well. But! I only get that feedback AFTER they play it, so it's not exactly selling studio time. Most of my jazz pianist friends/clients/colleagues have told me that if we want to book piano studio time, we need a proper piano. Hence, the hunt being on for a non-upright. Thanks much for the input! I appreciate your notes, and your thoughts about the sonics and action on the Kawai. What’s your preferred mic setup on your U3? It’s a bit dependent on the context, but if I want it to sound like a grand piano, my best results have come from a pair of DPAs in ORTF on the back of the instrument. Micing the front-bottom, under the keyboard, with the panel removed also sounds good, but there’s often too much mechanical noise from the pedals. In this configuration, I use spaced pairs of whatever suits the tone I’m after. A pair of R44s captured my favorite recording in this setup. if I want it to sound like an upright, I mic the hammers or do a spaced pair overheads, with the top open and usually with the front panel removed. |
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Post by mcirish on Nov 3, 2024 10:29:07 GMT -6
I'm a huge U3 fan. I love mine. I would pick it over any grand piano smaller than 7'. When I bought it, I looked at kawai as well. I liked the Yamaha so much more.
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Post by damoongo on Nov 3, 2024 10:31:13 GMT -6
What’s your preferred mic setup on your U3? It’s a bit dependent on the context, but if I want it to sound like a grand piano, my best results have come from a pair of DPAs in ORTF on the back of the instrument. Micing the front-bottom, under the keyboard, with the panel removed also sounds good, but there’s often too much mechanical noise from the pedals. In this configuration, I use spaced pairs of whatever suits the tone I’m after. A pair of R44s captured my favorite recording in this setup. if I want it to sound like an upright, I mic the hammers or do a spaced pair overheads, with the top open and usually with the front panel removed. Nice. Thanks. I rented a U1 for a session (we have a Steinway model O here, but the artist wanted the felted sound for a couple tunes). Used a pair of 67’s spaced on the back of the instrument. Sounded great. Thinking about keeping the rental! (They only want $1200 for it.) |
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Post by christophert on Nov 3, 2024 15:24:56 GMT -6
What’s your preferred mic setup on your U3? Schoeps CM6's with the wide cardiod capsules just inside the lid is my favorite. I did a session yesterday, and my assistant set up the piano mics - during the first take I felt the piano did not sound as great as normal. I guessed the normal cardiods were left on the Schoeps after a recent string quartet session. Changed the capsules to wide - and there it was. The wide cardiod reaches much deeper into the piano.
This combo of mic and wide cardiod capsule really is one of the greatest upright piano recording setups I have ever used. Lately loving the Avedis MA5's for preamps.
BTW - my U3 is the tall frame version from the 80's - so it projects a bigness that is wonderful, and closer to a grand than a normal upright.
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