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Post by crillemannen on Oct 27, 2024 12:08:29 GMT -6
It's a shame Neumann never trademarked "u47" or "M7". People could be led to think it's an actual u47. There's nothing in there resembling a real u47. Different output transformer, different "tube" (not actually a tube), different capsule, different PSU design, and on and on. Just another clone... To be fair though the current Neumann U67 and M49 mics aren't exact recreations of the originals either. The U67 is? What is the difference? M49 is not but they did great. I have had all the new ones at my place for a few weeks so I've done extensive shootouts which I will share on my channel. Everyone is capitalising on the Neumann heritage. I do believe the VK is made with the old Grosser team so I'm sure it is great. It looks cool! But I do agree that most U47 clones sounds great once you move past the 3k$ range. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 27, 2024 12:57:45 GMT -6
More than anything else, this comes off like a money grab to me.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2024 13:11:33 GMT -6
It's a shame Neumann never trademarked "u47" or "M7". People could be led to think it's an actual u47. There's nothing in there resembling a real u47. Different output transformer, different "tube" (not actually a tube), different capsule, different PSU design, and on and on. Just another clone... We got a true believer here! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2024 13:12:44 GMT -6
More than anything else, this comes off like a money grab to me. Another option! I like it! The new VF 14 is interesting to me. Just wonder if it makes ANY difference. |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 27, 2024 13:58:36 GMT -6
@ Seawell's last post... Nor most "Singers" of Today vs. Yore.  Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 27, 2024 14:03:06 GMT -6
Mike was awesome, I have a voice somewhat like Sting, I sent a clip of me singing "Every breath you take" and the dealer I went through said Mike tweaked the capsule to bring out the perfect amount of reedy mids and soft presence that a great 47 has - my cap is an M7. I'm not sure exactly what took place but when I received the mic it was a perfect match to my voice, the dealer recorded me singing the clip again through the CM7 and apparently Mike was very happy with the results. I was blown away! It was 15 years ago now and in those days I had a Db above high C .... I did a mean Roxanne :-) Now at 61 sadly my range has dropped a 4th (as often happens to old tenors) but it's mellowed and so has my CM7 - we've mellowed together  I should track something and post a clip Not a crime to become "The High Baritone". Welcome to my club! Chris |
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Post by damoongo on Oct 27, 2024 14:05:05 GMT -6
It's a shame Neumann never trademarked "u47" or "M7". People could be led to think it's an actual u47. There's nothing in there resembling a real u47. Different output transformer, different "tube" (not actually a tube), different capsule, different PSU design, and on and on. Just another clone... We got a true believer here! Indeed |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 27, 2024 14:21:08 GMT -6
Mike was awesome, I have a voice somewhat like Sting, I sent a clip of me singing "Every breath you take" and the dealer I went through said Mike tweaked the capsule to bring out the perfect amount of reedy mids and soft presence that a great 47 has - my cap is an M7. I'm not sure exactly what took place but when I received the mic it was a perfect match to my voice, the dealer recorded me singing the clip again through the CM7 and apparently Mike was very happy with the results. I was blown away! It was 15 years ago now and in those days I had a Db above high C .... I did a mean Roxanne :-) Now at 61 sadly my range has dropped a 4th (as often happens to old tenors) but it's mellowed and so has my CM7 - we've mellowed together I should track something and post a clip Not a crime to become "The High Baritone". Welcome to my club! Chris As you know categories aren't defined by range. You sound like a baritone (a lovely voice type to have) I still sound exactly like a tenor - I just don't sing past my top A anymore. My comfortable mid range is still D,E,F above mid C - most baritones would get tired quite quickly - sitting in this mid register for a two hour set. It's all about the colour of your voice and it's comfortable mid range - the part of the voice where thew voice moat naturally resonates. I've known basses with higher top notes than some light lyrical tenors - though their voice colour is bass! |
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2024 14:36:09 GMT -6
More than anything else, this comes off like a money grab to me. Another option! I like it! The new VF 14 is interesting to me. Just wonder if it makes ANY difference. That's what I was getting at, even if Neumann decided to re-issue the U47 it's not going to have an original VF14 either so I appreciate anyone at least trying to re-create it. Even if someone were financially inclined to build the machinery to bring back the VF14 to exact specs, there are environmental issues with old gear processes and materials that would most likely make it impossible. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2024 14:36:43 GMT -6
It's a shame Neumann never trademarked "u47" or "M7". People could be led to think it's an actual u47. There's nothing in there resembling a real u47. Different output transformer, different "tube" (not actually a tube), different capsule, different PSU design, and on and on. Just another clone... They did, & they expired. Just like Neve 1073, 1081. AKG C12, Telefunken ELAM251 etc. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2024 15:07:35 GMT -6
To be fair though the current Neumann U67 and M49 mics aren't exact recreations of the originals either. The U67 is? What is the difference? M49 is not but they did great. I have had all the new ones at my place for a few weeks so I've done extensive shootouts which I will share on my channel. Everyone is capitalising on the Neumann heritage. I do believe the VK is made with the old Grosser team so I'm sure it is great. It looks cool! But I do agree that most U47 clones sounds great once you move past the 3k$ range. The U67 RI has differences, most notably not using NOS Telefunken EF86 tubes. It may or may not make a huge difference but nevertheless it isn't a 1:1 re-issue using NOS parts like the short run of U67 SLO in the early 90s after the Berlin Wall came down. Neumann have brought back the U67 and M49 but they have had to make strategic choices to be able to produce them in modern times, the same as any other clone manufacturer is having to make. So sadly, it just seems impossible to buy an exact recreation of these classic mics in modern times, even from Neumann. Regarding the clone market overall, the whole concept is a bit weird to me but if Neumann hadn't waited so long to do it themselves, I don't think there would've been nearly as much of a market for it. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 27, 2024 15:40:56 GMT -6
Do it once - do it right....twiceAlways works for me .... always works for me two🙃 They are closer to the originals than anything else out there NOS component wise, Beyschlag resistors and old skool caps. Under $4k for the pair and i'll put em up against anything out there...., already have, and you could also do it or have it done for close to the same price! realgearonline.com/post/375246Start with this..... |
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Post by crillemannen on Oct 27, 2024 15:46:07 GMT -6
The U67 is? What is the difference? M49 is not but they did great. I have had all the new ones at my place for a few weeks so I've done extensive shootouts which I will share on my channel. Everyone is capitalising on the Neumann heritage. I do believe the VK is made with the old Grosser team so I'm sure it is great. It looks cool! But I do agree that most U47 clones sounds great once you move past the 3k$ range. The U67 RI has differences, most notably not using NOS Telefunken EF86 tubes. It may or may not make a huge difference but nevertheless it isn't a 1:1 re-issue using NOS parts like the short run of U67 SLO in the early 90s after the Berlin Wall came down. Neumann have brought back the U67 and M49 but they have had to make strategic choices to be able to produce them in modern times, the same as any other clone manufacturer is having to make. So sadly, it just seems impossible to buy an exact recreation of these classic mics in modern times, even from Neumann. Regarding the clone market overall, the whole concept is a bit weird to me but if Neumann hadn't waited so long to do it themselves, I don't think there would've been nearly as much of a market for it. They have to adapt. I’d be more interested in hearing their engineers' thoughts on what contributes to the audible differences between the vintage and reissue models because there is a difference. That said, I do think the reissues sound great, and if I had a studio, I’d definitely sell off a mic or two from my vintage collection to buy a pair of either the U67 or M49. I think Neumann took pride in looking forward, adding new technology rather than relying on older tech from the past. Then, people who were a bit more business-minded came into charge and decided to reissue the old models. I’m quite sure they’re a success, and it does add a bit of prestige to the brand, which they certainly deserve. |
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Post by damoongo on Oct 27, 2024 17:07:16 GMT -6
It's a shame Neumann never trademarked "u47" or "M7". People could be led to think it's an actual u47. There's nothing in there resembling a real u47. Different output transformer, different "tube" (not actually a tube), different capsule, different PSU design, and on and on. Just another clone... They did, & they expired. Just like Neve 1073, 1081. AKG C12, Telefunken ELAM251 etc. From Klaus Heyne (whom I usually trust on these matters): "Regrettably, Neumann/Sennheiser never bothered to trademark "U47", "VF14", "M7", "BV8", "GN7", its badge design, or various other U47-specific components that are increasingly borrowed by copy manufacturers wishing to cut their slice out of the icon". repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,41136.0.html But maybe he meant regrettably they let them lapse... |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 27, 2024 17:13:59 GMT -6
I only buy genuine “Newman”! (“Jerry!” ) Love that Brimar Tube tone on the BU67…. Chris |
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2024 17:30:21 GMT -6
They did, & they expired. Just like Neve 1073, 1081. AKG C12, Telefunken ELAM251 etc. From Klaus Heyne (whom I usually trust on these matters): "Regrettably, Neumann/Sennheiser never bothered to trademark "U47", "VF14", "M7", "BV8", "GN7", its badge design, or various other U47-specific components that are increasingly borrowed by copy manufacturers wishing to cut their slice out of the icon". repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,41136.0.html But maybe he meant regrettably they let them lapse... Sennheiser wouldn’t be able to they were to late to the party, VF14 and BV8 were probably the IP of their actual manufacturers. While Neumann may not have registered their model numbers, as I recall you will find Telefunken & in North America Gotham probably did. The stories of how protective Gotham was will leave you shaking your head. If a mic was imported by anyone besides Gotham and you wanted service Gotham would charge this insane “ registration fee”. I’m sure they made sure you couldn’t sell a U47 in NA that wasn’t Neumann. One of my historical sources just texted me he is 90% sure Gotham & T funk registered the trademarks. |
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Post by damoongo on Oct 27, 2024 17:58:19 GMT -6
From Klaus Heyne (whom I usually trust on these matters): "Regrettably, Neumann/Sennheiser never bothered to trademark "U47", "VF14", "M7", "BV8", "GN7", its badge design, or various other U47-specific components that are increasingly borrowed by copy manufacturers wishing to cut their slice out of the icon". repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,41136.0.html But maybe he meant regrettably they let them lapse... VF14 and BV8 were probably the IP of their actual manufacturers. [ Good points. However, Neumann made the Bv8 transformers themselves. |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 27, 2024 18:15:58 GMT -6
From Klaus Heyne (whom I usually trust on these matters): "Regrettably, Neumann/Sennheiser never bothered to trademark "U47", "VF14", "M7", "BV8", "GN7", its badge design, or various other U47-specific components that are increasingly borrowed by copy manufacturers wishing to cut their slice out of the icon". repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,41136.0.html But maybe he meant regrettably they let them lapse... Sennheiser wouldn’t be able to they were to late to the party, VF14 and BV8 were probably the IP of their actual manufacturers. While Neumann may not have registered their model numbers, as I recall you will find Telefunken & in North America Gotham probably did. The stories of how protective Gotham was will leave you shaking your head. If a mic was imported by anyone besides Gotham and you wanted service Gotham would charge this insane “ registration fee”. I’m sure they made sure you couldn’t sell a U47 in NA that wasn’t Neumann. One of my historical sources just texted me he is 90% sure Gotham & T funk registered the trademarks. About to have dinner with Commissioner Gordon and Bruce Wayne. We’ll get to the bottom of this Gotham business. Chris P.S. Which State is “N/A”? ) |
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2024 19:44:38 GMT -6
VF14 and BV8 were probably the IP of their actual manufacturers. [ Good points. However, Neumann made the Bv8 transformers themselves. Did they? I always thought it was OEM, learn something new everyday. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Oct 27, 2024 21:52:06 GMT -6
I don’t know… To me, we’re so far past all of this at this point in time. Only thing I think we truly can and should worry and complain about at this point is the true-trickery products. They’re out there!
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 28, 2024 6:56:03 GMT -6
Do it once - do it right....twiceAlways works for me .... always works for me two🙃 They are closer to the originals than anything else out there NOS component wise, Beyschlag resistors and old skool caps. Under $4k for the pair and i'll put em up against anything out there...., already have, and you could also do it or have it done for close to the same price! realgearonline.com/post/375246Start with this.....If you're happy with them that's great. There's nothing like having your dream mic(s) I'll never part with my CM7 - it's as close to perfection on my voice as I've ever achieved with any mic! - I love singing through it and love the results. Wunder CM7 > Coil CA-70s > Retro STA Level > HEDD 192 This chain is soooo smooth and musical - my kinda vocal sound. |
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Post by svart on Oct 28, 2024 7:47:11 GMT -6
Damn. I built mine for around 1K$ and it uses a Thiersch capsule, AMI transformer, and is as sound-accurate as I could make it.
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Chris
