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Post by thehightenor on Nov 8, 2024 8:46:06 GMT -6
See, I said not everyone would agree with me  Mark Bartel designed the TKI as a clone of a DR (not the lead channel of course) Still a clone and not the real thing. I've seen this a lot over the internet, but people need to remember that Friedman is not a Plexi. Matchless is not a Vox and Tone King is not a Fender. They are all interpretations of those sounds - maybe even better for some. The real Vox sound only exists within Vox amps, the same with the Plexis and the Fenders. So yeah, Tone King =/= Deluxe Reverb 65 Well I do considerably prefer a TKI to a DR. I demoed both when buying the TKI. Shame for me UAD didn’t emulate a TKI - hopefully they’ll do a better job than the ones TKI sims I’ve tried |
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Post by phantom on Nov 8, 2024 8:51:17 GMT -6
Still a clone and not the real thing. I've seen this a lot over the internet, but people need to remember that Friedman is not a Plexi. Matchless is not a Vox and Tone King is not a Fender. They are all interpretations of those sounds - maybe even better for some. The real Vox sound only exists within Vox amps, the same with the Plexis and the Fenders. So yeah, Tone King =/= Deluxe Reverb 65 Well clearly I considerably prefer a TKI to a DR. I demoed both when buying the TKI. Shame UAD didn’t emulate a TKI …. maybe one day Well, if you demoed both and prefered the TKI, why were you pretending until now that the TKI should sound exactly like a DR? They are different, right? And you like the TK more. All good with that. I would enjoy a TK pedal, but I don't think UA is going after clones to emulate, they usually go for Vintage Units. The particular amp they used for Dream 65 is actually from 65. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 8, 2024 8:54:49 GMT -6
Well clearly I considerably prefer a TKI to a DR. I demoed both when buying the TKI. Shame UAD didn’t emulate a TKI …. maybe one day Well, if you demoed both and prefered the TKI, why were you pretending until now that the TKI should sound exactly like a DR? They are different, right? And you like the TK more. All good with that. I would enjoy a TK pedal, but I don't think UA is going after clones to emulate, they usually go for Vintage Units. The particular amp they used for Dream 65 is actually from 65. I think of the TKI as the ultimate DR. So yes, I compare it to a DR. I’m absolutely not the only person who does that I can assure you. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree and agree to part as friends |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 9:44:01 GMT -6
Huh. Sold your AXE-FX @johnkenn ?
Speaking for myself as an avid tube amp user, the sim world spins and spits out new products weekly in the most fickle, over dramatic and sensationalized gear market, I cannot imagine a more relevant, reliable, stable, consistent and easy to recall piece of hardware to keep.
OK. I’ve always known buying a piece of digital hardware was dumb to buy. It’ll be outdated in a few years. The III is at the end of its life cycle…and to my ears, these sound as good if not better. Wasn’t a hard decision. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 9:45:54 GMT -6
Well, if you demoed both and prefered the TKI, why were you pretending until now that the TKI should sound exactly like a DR? They are different, right? And you like the TK more. All good with that. I would enjoy a TK pedal, but I don't think UA is going after clones to emulate, they usually go for Vintage Units. The particular amp they used for Dream 65 is actually from 65. I think of the TKI as the ultimate DR. So yes, I compare it to a DR. I’m absolutely not the only person who does that I can assure you. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree and agree to part as friends MkII - so one better neuraldsp.com/plugins/tone-king-imperial-mkii |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 8, 2024 9:52:32 GMT -6
I think of the TKI as the ultimate DR. So yes, I compare it to a DR. I’m absolutely not the only person who does that I can assure you. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree and agree to part as friends MkII - so one better neuraldsp.com/plugins/tone-king-imperial-mkiiMy Tone King Imperial amp is the MK2. So I demoed this sim and made a direct comparison and I did think they captured some of the vibe. I keep thinking I might grab it in a sale for my laptop. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 10:41:52 GMT -6
My Tone King Imperial amp is the MK2. So I demoed this sim and made a direct comparison and I did think they captured some of the vibe. I keep thinking I might grab it in a sale for my laptop. I bought it a couple years ago. It’s really good. |
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Post by FM77 on Nov 8, 2024 11:12:25 GMT -6
Huh. Sold your AXE-FX @johnkenn ?
Speaking for myself as an avid tube amp user, the sim world spins and spits out new products weekly in the most fickle, over dramatic and sensationalized gear market, I cannot imagine a more relevant, reliable, stable, consistent and easy to recall piece of hardware to keep.
OK. I’ve always known buying a piece of digital hardware was dumb to buy. It’ll be outdated in a few years. The III is at the end of its life cycle…and to my ears, these sound as good if not better. Wasn’t a hard decision. All good man. Personal decision is one thing, but end of it's life cycle is completely absurd. I have a minimum of a decade left with the AXE III, MKII. Probably more.
I listen to tones from the AXE2, nearly two decades ago that hold up to everything and anything I am doing now. The technology is going around in circles most often. The industry requires it keep selling the same thing with a different way to access it or package it and a promise of more authenticity - which is already a misnomer.
I gave my AXE2 to a friend who was flooded in Houston some time back and lost alot of his gear, if not I would still be using it without a single issue. But then again, I am on the same phone for past 10 years also.
I only commented on the fact you sold it, because it is very stark contrast to 4 months ago. All the best.
4 months ago you said this - "I will say I’ve been looking like a fanboi for like 3-4 years now…Now you can be one too. lol.
You basically said what I’ve said in all the threads - it might be the best purchase I’ve ever made as far as the amount it can do, ease of use and the best customer service/support/development I’ve ever experienced. There are firmware updates just about every very two weeks. And every single time I think it can’t get better, it does. Makes me really frustrated with plugin developers after seeing how this thing has evolved. Oh - and you’re exactly right - I don’t think I could mic these things up and get that tone…maybe if you spent thousands…
Thought about replacing it and bought UA Ruby, Dream and Golden…Strymon Mobius and couple of drive pedals…sounded really good, but I could pretty much match it pretty easily with the Fractal - AND all the pedals cost more than a used AxeFX 3.
Glad you’re loving it, man…it’s definitely one of those things I thought “why did it take me this long to buy this?”
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Post by phantom on Nov 8, 2024 11:36:08 GMT -6
I was thinking about modellers vs plugins, actually.
We know that the processing power of computers are a lot bigger than the ones inside modellers, so why the top notch of amp modelling are inside external hardware - like Line 6, Fractal, Neural DSP?
Neural DSP, btw, is a very interesting case. Their plugins sound better than the modelling inside the Quad Cortex. Now they are porting the plugins to the hardware, but by the pace of it, looks like a very difficult job.
I mean, when Softube or even Nembrini are making a amp plugins, they don't have to think if it'll fit inside whatever the underpowered chip their platform has. They can make it as power hungry as they need.
Anyway, just food for thought.
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Post by Quint on Nov 8, 2024 13:13:39 GMT -6
The reason that standalone hardware amp sim boxes continue to sell is because a lot of guitar players, myself included, don't want to futz around with a mouse and computer screen when they're playing. Real knobs with dedicated functions, coupled with being able to just listen and react with your head in a non-technical space, is still worth something. Sound comparisons aside, standalone hardware amp sim boxes get you closer to the experience of using a real amp than a plugin will. There's just something about a mouse and computer screen that makes me feel like I'm filling out a TPS report* rather than making music. I think a lot of guitar players feel the same way. * Office Space reference  |
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Post by Dan on Nov 8, 2024 13:30:12 GMT -6
I was thinking about modellers vs plugins, actually. We know that the processing power of computers are a lot bigger than the ones inside modellers, so why the top notch of amp modelling are inside external hardware - like Line 6, Fractal, Neural DSP? Neural DSP, btw, is a very interesting case. Their plugins sound better than the modelling inside the Quad Cortex. Now they are porting the plugins to the hardware, but by the pace of it, looks like a very difficult job. I mean, when Softube or even Nembrini are making a amp plugins, they don't have to think if it'll fit inside whatever the underpowered chip their platform has. They can make it as power hungry as they need. Anyway, just food for thought. the neural sims are slowly being updated to not have the shitty high end of the quad cortex. Softube’s post uad efforts are way better: the Lemmy super bass, Kerry king 2203, and Engl Savage II. Most of the youboobers aren’t gain staging or bothering to match the tone stack (those pots have wide tolerances) of any comparison they do. And it’s also obvious that the plexis and such everyone is modeling must have sounded totally different from each other. Even the units softube modeled sounded totally different with the plexi super lead, jcm 800, 2203. The answer to which has the better Marshall tone is “What Marshall?” The Kerry King they did is certainly among the “cleanest” Marshall models if you turn off the built in boost. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 13:40:31 GMT -6
OK. I’ve always known buying a piece of digital hardware was dumb to buy. It’ll be outdated in a few years. The III is at the end of its life cycle…and to my ears, these sound as good if not better. Wasn’t a hard decision. All good man. Personal decision is one thing, but end of it's life cycle is completely absurd. I have a minimum of a decade left with the AXE III, MKII. Probably more. I listen to tones from the AXE2, nearly two decades ago that hold up to everything and anything I am doing now. The technology is going around in circles most often. The industry requires it keep selling the same thing with a different way to access it or package it and a promise of more authenticity - which is already a misnomer. I gave my AXE2 to a friend who was flooded in Houston some time back and lost alot of his gear, if not I would still be using it without a single issue. But then again, I am on the same phone for past 10 years also.
I only commented on the fact you sold it, because it is very stark contrast to 4 months ago. All the best.
4 months ago you said this - "I will say I’ve been looking like a fanboi for like 3-4 years now…Now you can be one too. lol.
You basically said what I’ve said in all the threads - it might be the best purchase I’ve ever made as far as the amount it can do, ease of use and the best customer service/support/development I’ve ever experienced. There are firmware updates just about every very two weeks. And every single time I think it can’t get better, it does. Makes me really frustrated with plugin developers after seeing how this thing has evolved. Oh - and you’re exactly right - I don’t think I could mic these things up and get that tone…maybe if you spent thousands…
Thought about replacing it and bought UA Ruby, Dream and Golden…Strymon Mobius and couple of drive pedals…sounded really good, but I could pretty much match it pretty easily with the Fractal - AND all the pedals cost more than a used AxeFX 3.
Glad you’re loving it, man…it’s definitely one of those things I thought “why did it take me this long to buy this?”
Ya got me! You get a medal. I like these better. These weren’t invented 4 months ago when I said that. I loved the axe. Still love to have one if I could afford both. I didn’t have this same experience with the pedals…the lack of output volume for a line level connection annoyed me. You can also find where I said “this 251 is the best decision I’ve made in years…” Then when I found something I liked better, you didn’t see me come back and slag the old one, right? Because there’s nothing to slag. I found something I liked better. Something that CHANGED that opinion. You can take it or leave it. As for my opinion as to whether the axe is at the end of its life cycle - A) I had a MkI which is…at the end of its life cycle and B) I might be wrong…I didn’t order a study on it. These were my reasons for selling. 1) thought these sounded as good if not better than the axe counterparts (first time I can say that imo) 2) these are $109 3) I received $1600 for my axe 4) These were more intuitive to me. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 13:45:18 GMT -6
I also have said in nearly every discussion of the axe - “If I could find something cheaper than I liked as much I’d do it in a second.” That’s what I did.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 8, 2024 13:53:27 GMT -6
I also have said in nearly every discussion of the axe - “If I could find something cheaper than I liked as much I’d do it in a second.” That’s what I did. Did it sound 1600 % better ? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 13:54:44 GMT -6
The reason that standalone hardware amp sim boxes continue to sell is because a lot of guitar players, myself included, don't want to futz around with a mouse and computer screen when they're playing. Real knobs with dedicated functions, coupled with being able to just listen and react with your head in a non-technical space, is still worth something. Sound comparisons aside, standalone hardware amp sim boxes get you closer to the experience of using a real amp than a plugin will. There's just something about a mouse and computer screen that makes me feel like I'm filling out a TPS report* rather than making music. I think a lot of guitar players feel the same way. * Office Space reference I can buy that…but at the same time, I’d say one of the only negatives to the AxeFX is that you have TOO MANY options. And if there hadn’t have been Axe Edit, I don’t know if I could have turned it on. Lol |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 13:55:19 GMT -6
I also have said in nearly every discussion of the axe - “If I could find something cheaper than I liked as much I’d do it in a second.” That’s what I did. Did it sound 1600 % better ? Did it need to? |
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Post by phantom on Nov 8, 2024 13:55:57 GMT -6
The reason that standalone hardware amp sim boxes continue to sell is because a lot of guitar players, myself included, don't want to futz around with a mouse and computer screen when they're playing. Real knobs with dedicated functions, coupled with being able to just listen and react with your head in a non-technical space, is still worth something. Sound comparisons aside, standalone hardware amp sim boxes get you closer to the experience of using a real amp than a plugin will. There's just something about a mouse and computer screen that makes me feel like I'm filling out a TPS report* rather than making music. I think a lot of guitar players feel the same way. * Office Space reference Yeah, totally. I get that. I was mainly talking about the sound and modelling quality. Workflow and whatnot are a different story, and I'll be the first to choose workflow in front of everything else. |
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Post by Quint on Nov 8, 2024 14:28:33 GMT -6
The reason that standalone hardware amp sim boxes continue to sell is because a lot of guitar players, myself included, don't want to futz around with a mouse and computer screen when they're playing. Real knobs with dedicated functions, coupled with being able to just listen and react with your head in a non-technical space, is still worth something. Sound comparisons aside, standalone hardware amp sim boxes get you closer to the experience of using a real amp than a plugin will. There's just something about a mouse and computer screen that makes me feel like I'm filling out a TPS report* rather than making music. I think a lot of guitar players feel the same way. * Office Space reference I can buy that…but at the same time, I’d say one of the only negatives to the AxeFX is that you have TOO MANY options. And if there hadn’t have been Axe Edit, I don’t know if I could have turned it on. Lol I haven't used the Axe, so I'm not really familiar with it's user interface. I was just more or less talking about hardware amp sim boxes, in general. I like that, at least for a lot of them, their user interface is set up to very much resemble that of a real amp. That's how my Strymon is. That's how the UAFX pedals are. That's how a lot of them are. And you can just turn knobs on them without having to think about or worry about things like buffers and latency and whatnot. Those decisions are made for you, inside the hardware box. You just turn it on and go. I like that, for a lot of these amp sim boxes, I wouldn't be able to worry about those sort of things, even if I wanted to. I know that some of these boxes have a ton of IR options and things like that. I guess the Axe is one of those type of boxes. I consider those with all of the IR options to be even more than I care to deal with. It's just option overload. If it's got a menu I have to scroll thru, I'm probably done. Playing a real amp is fun, and I want any amp sim I might play thru to be as close as I can get to the same level of fun as I get with a real amp. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 8, 2024 14:58:52 GMT -6
Did it sound 1600 % better ? Did it need to? No, I was agreeing with your logic, that the plug ins get you where you want to be at such a good price, so sell the axe ! |
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Post by FM77 on Nov 8, 2024 18:22:55 GMT -6
Ya got me! You get a medal. I like these better. These weren’t invented 4 months ago when I said that. I loved the axe. Still love to have one if I could afford both. I didn’t have this same experience with the pedals…the lack of output volume for a line level connection annoyed me. You can also find where I said “this 251 is the best decision I’ve made in years…” Then when I found something I liked better, you didn’t see me come back and slag the old one, right? Because there’s nothing to slag. I found something I liked better. Something that CHANGED that opinion. You can take it or leave it. As for my opinion as to whether the axe is at the end of its life cycle - A) I had a MkI which is…at the end of its life cycle and B) I might be wrong…I didn’t order a study on it. These were my reasons for selling. 1) thought these sounded as good if not better than the axe counterparts (first time I can say that imo) 2) these are $109 3) I received $1600 for my axe 4) These were more intuitive to me. You read more into it than what is there. Little interest in your process or reasoning and I am not challenging it. All good here.
I was responding to your ‘end of life cycle’ and buying digital hardware/AXE FX is dumb. I consider myself well educated and experienced, I make educated gear purchases, they aren't dumb. Those who have recently purchased the AXE here on this board (from your recent and consistent recommendation) have not made dumb choices, they have made excellent long term choices.
Cost, its not about the dollars at some point. The only real cost in the end is time. Long term relationships with gear, familiarity, stability, that’s where the time is saved and value goes up year after year for me. As for too many options? I hear what you’re saying, it is common remark with alot of gear. But for me, it’s akin to the grocery store I use having too many options.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2024 21:14:06 GMT -6
Ya got me! You get a medal. I like these better. These weren’t invented 4 months ago when I said that. I loved the axe. Still love to have one if I could afford both. I didn’t have this same experience with the pedals…the lack of output volume for a line level connection annoyed me. You can also find where I said “this 251 is the best decision I’ve made in years…” Then when I found something I liked better, you didn’t see me come back and slag the old one, right? Because there’s nothing to slag. I found something I liked better. Something that CHANGED that opinion. You can take it or leave it. As for my opinion as to whether the axe is at the end of its life cycle - A) I had a MkI which is…at the end of its life cycle and B) I might be wrong…I didn’t order a study on it. These were my reasons for selling. 1) thought these sounded as good if not better than the axe counterparts (first time I can say that imo) 2) these are $109 3) I received $1600 for my axe 4) These were more intuitive to me. You read more into it than what is there. Little interest in your process or reasoning and I am not challenging it. All good here. I was responding to your ‘end of life cycle’ and buying digital hardware/AXE FX is dumb. I consider myself well educated and experienced, I make educated gear purchases, they aren't dumb. Those who have recently purchased the AXE here on this board (from your recent and consistent recommendation) have not made dumb choices, they have made excellent long term choices.
Cost, its not about the dollars at some point. The only real cost in the end is time. Long term relationships with gear, familiarity, stability, that’s where the time is saved and value goes up year after year for me. As for too many options? I hear what you’re saying, it is common remark with alot of gear. But for me, it’s akin to the grocery store I use having too many options. Good lord man, I wasn't calling you or anyone else “dumb.” I made an off the cuff comment about it being “dumb” because traditionally digital stuff inherently loses its value. And I was only sharing “my process and reasoning” (though you have little interest) because I thought that’s what you were asking. I’m not sure if you were trying to come in hot, but when someone asks why I was effusive about something - quotes me - and says “it’s a stark difference from (your opinion) 4 months ago…” it kinda felt like I should give an explanation. As far as end of life cycle…just another off the cuff comment, man…and the MkI is worth less than your MkII. And considering they don’t make the MkI anymore, yes, it was at the end of its life cycle. I have no issues with the Axe. It was awesome. It’s still the best modeler over all to me… |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 9, 2024 1:09:10 GMT -6
The reason that standalone hardware amp sim boxes continue to sell is because a lot of guitar players, myself included, don't want to futz around with a mouse and computer screen when they're playing. Real knobs with dedicated functions, coupled with being able to just listen and react with your head in a non-technical space, is still worth something. Sound comparisons aside, standalone hardware amp sim boxes get you closer to the experience of using a real amp than a plugin will. There's just something about a mouse and computer screen that makes me feel like I'm filling out a TPS report* rather than making music. I think a lot of guitar players feel the same way. * Office Space reference This ^ And those of us that still feel a tube amp sounds better! As soon as I get a moment spare I will post some files of my hardware rig vs my amp sims. To my ears there are some fundamental differences - no different to those that motivate some of us to use tube hardware processing when tracking and mixing vs ITB. I will post some files, I’m just so short on time at the moment. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 9, 2024 4:49:24 GMT -6
I bet everyone, thinks the tube amp sounds better, but the plugs are very good convenient tools, and during current sale , cheaper then retubing an amp: once.
As Quint says though, I like real knobs: there’s a dream for sale locally used, but asking price is over $400, bought all 3 plugs for like $125 cdn.
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Post by FM77 on Nov 9, 2024 6:33:16 GMT -6
You read more into it than what is there. Little interest in your process or reasoning and I am not challenging it. All good here. I was responding to your ‘end of life cycle’ and buying digital hardware/AXE FX is dumb. I consider myself well educated and experienced, I make educated gear purchases, they aren't dumb. Those who have recently purchased the AXE here on this board (from your recent and consistent recommendation) have not made dumb choices, they have made excellent long term choices.
Cost, its not about the dollars at some point. The only real cost in the end is time. Long term relationships with gear, familiarity, stability, that’s where the time is saved and value goes up year after year for me. As for too many options? I hear what you’re saying, it is common remark with alot of gear. But for me, it’s akin to the grocery store I use having too many options. Good lord man, I wasn't calling you or anyone else “dumb.” I made an off the cuff comment about it being “dumb” because traditionally digital stuff inherently loses its value. And I was only sharing “my process and reasoning” (though you have little interest) because I thought that’s what you were asking. I’m not sure if you were trying to come in hot, but when someone asks why I was effusive about something - quotes me - and says “it’s a stark difference from (your opinion) 4 months ago…” it kinda felt like I should give an explanation. As far as end of life cycle…just another off the cuff comment, man…and the MkI is worth less than your MkII. And considering they don’t make the MkI anymore, yes, it was at the end of its life cycle. I have no issues with the Axe. It was awesome. It’s still the best modeler over all to me… We certainly have different filters John. Like I said, there is just nothing there. This the internet. A gear forum. I don’t ‘come in hot’ for any topic, any person, any scenario, not ever. It’s the… internet…. Just stating my observations, surprise and facts, take it or leave it to use your language. But nobody owes me an explanation. When I say all the best, again and again, I mean it everytime. Enjoy working native man, I hope it lights you up. Me, I have new custom built Amplified Nation head and cab that shipped this week to add to the amp pallete, ordered sometime back. Running with my Fryette Power Station or Boss Waza Craft. Running a small board into the front end or quadraverb into the effects loop. I run my primary pedal board, including tube preamps, into the AXE. Sound better or worse? Doesn't really matter, its immensely enjoyable. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 9, 2024 8:17:39 GMT -6
Good lord man, I wasn't calling you or anyone else “dumb.” I made an off the cuff comment about it being “dumb” because traditionally digital stuff inherently loses its value. And I was only sharing “my process and reasoning” (though you have little interest) because I thought that’s what you were asking. I’m not sure if you were trying to come in hot, but when someone asks why I was effusive about something - quotes me - and says “it’s a stark difference from (your opinion) 4 months ago…” it kinda felt like I should give an explanation. As far as end of life cycle…just another off the cuff comment, man…and the MkI is worth less than your MkII. And considering they don’t make the MkI anymore, yes, it was at the end of its life cycle. I have no issues with the Axe. It was awesome. It’s still the best modeler over all to me… We certainly have different filters John. Like I said, there is just nothing there. This the internet. A gear forum. I don’t ‘come in hot’ for any topic, any person, any scenario, not ever. It’s the… internet…. Just stating my observations, surprise and facts, take it or leave it to use your language. But nobody owes me an explanation. When I say all the best, again and again, I mean it everytime. Enjoy working native man, I hope it lights you up. Me, I have new custom built Amplified Nation head and cab that shipped this week to add to the amp pallete, ordered sometime back. Running with my Fryette Power Station or Boss Waza Craft. Running a small board into the front end or quadraverb into the effects loop. I run my primary pedal board, including tube preamps, into the AXE. Sound better or worse? Doesn't really matter, its immensely enjoyable. Do you have a Boss WAZA TAE? |
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