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Post by bluesholyman on Oct 7, 2024 11:20:43 GMT -6
I have basic understanding of what a compressor does and how it allows you to raise softer volumes. I had read somewhere, one of the main compressor types (VCA, Opto, FET, Vari-Mu) was very useful for raising the overall volume of a track that was recorded at a lower than desirable level. I just can't remember which one it is - I am thinking optical, IIRC, because I remember it being a traditional "2-knobber" like an LA-2A
If I get the gist of what it would do, there would be little/no compression but added output gain. I am aware that this would also increase the noise floor. If there is a better way to raise overall levels without changing dynamics of the source (within reason,) I would appreciate the suggestion.
Thanks.
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 7, 2024 11:44:02 GMT -6
Are you all analog or in daw? If in daw then clip gain is your best friend at this.
Sure you can use a compressor to boost your post compression signal if you’re not in the daw
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Post by phdamage on Oct 7, 2024 12:16:05 GMT -6
If the output is that low, you may want to look into some kind of active booster if you aren’t already using a condenser. Tons of options for that. The cathedral pipes one seems to be the cheapest. Think it’s like $60. Failing that, a mic with a hotter output might be your best bet.
All that said, 1176 style comps seem to all offer a ton of gain - I’ve def used them as mic pres
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Post by tasteliketape on Oct 7, 2024 12:27:07 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Oct 7, 2024 12:30:45 GMT -6
I have basic understanding of what a compressor does and how it allows you to raise softer volumes. I had read somewhere, one of the main compressor types (VCA, Opto, FET, Vari-Mu) was very useful for raising the overall volume of a track that was recorded at a lower than desirable level. I just can't remember which one it is - I am thinking optical, IIRC, because I remember it being a traditional "2-knobber" like an LA-2A If I get the gist of what it would do, there would be little/no compression but added output gain. I am aware that this would also increase the noise floor. If there is a better way to raise overall levels without changing dynamics of the source (within reason,) I would appreciate the suggestion. Thanks. Raising the level but reducing dynamics is how compressors work. They reduce the higher power signals and then add gain to the remaining signal. All compressors have some kind of make-up gain amplifier inside and you could simply bypass the compressor sidechain and use the gain to increase a signal level without actually compressing it. Some people did this with the 1176 back in the day supposedly. Either way, what you're asking for is just an variable gain amplifier. |
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Post by bossanova on Oct 7, 2024 13:26:49 GMT -6
I too am interested in if the OP is doing this with an already recorded track and not adding gain to a quiet source on the way in.
If you're looking to bring up low level sections in a way that doesn't sound like compression ITB, Waves Vocal Rider set to bring up the signal during quiet parts only and/or the upward compression function of MV-2 would both do what you're looking for.
As others have said, you'll probably want to use clip gain if you're ITB and just want to avoid compression altogether, but the above solutions can speed things up if you find a set and forget sweet spot. In all those cases, I use something like RX at the front of the chain if the noise floor is particularly bad.
As for the hardware compressor type, I'm wondering if it's something like an opto (or a mellow vari-mu?) where the compression can be fairly transparent at low settings and the rest comes from makeup gain.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 7, 2024 14:00:57 GMT -6
If you're talking about increasing density without apparent effects on peaks, an RMS VCA at a very low ratio and threshold with longer attack and release times can give an apparent boost to low level stuff without affecting high level much. Alternatively, parallel compression.
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Post by Dan on Oct 7, 2024 14:04:03 GMT -6
A slow, program dependent RMS compressor. Kotelnikov, Weiss DS1, and MDWDRC2 are perfect for this set correctly. There is far less distortion than with peak detectors.
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Post by Ward on Oct 7, 2024 14:06:50 GMT -6
Theoretically, you are looking for a compressor with great 'reach' and great low-noise op amps.
You're going to be looking at VCAs, friend. Nothing else is going to do that without increasing noise and distortion.
Strongest recommendations? The various cloner SSL Buss Comp clones, Apex Compellor variants, Symmetric 206 and 425 especially for acoustic instruments, Focusrite Red 3 series compressor. The DBX high end 160SL. Just a few I own and sprang to mind.
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Post by geoff738 on Oct 7, 2024 14:10:06 GMT -6
Are you sure you want/need a compressor for this? Why not just do it inside your Daw?
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by bluesholyman on Oct 7, 2024 18:05:50 GMT -6
I too am interested in if the OP is doing this with an already recorded track and not adding gain to a quiet source on the way in. This would be an already recorded source. My co-wrtier sent me a stem that was averageing -25dbFS. Found some ways to bring it up, but didn't really grok the "standard" way of doing this - an article has suggested it could be, and maybe often was, done with a compressor. Now I can't find the article. Are you sure you want/need a compressor for this? Why not just do it inside your Daw? Cheers, Geoff Not sure of anything most days, but investigating the option. I suppose I could use clip gain as someone suggested, but there could be cool musical effect doing this with a compressor. |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 7, 2024 18:51:32 GMT -6
Not sure of anything most days, but investigating the option. I suppose I could use clip gain as someone suggested, but there could be cool musical effect doing this with a compressor. Perhaps I'm not understanding your original intent, or I misinterpreting some of the responses you're so far, but it doesn't seem like some of them are addressing the point. You are asking how to selectively increase the level of signals in the track that are at a low level, but at the same time leave the higher level signals unaffected... is that correct? If so then you certainly do have a few options, but clip gain is not one of them. Clip gain will increase the volume of the low and the high level signals together at the same rate. To differentially increase the volume of the low length signals relative to the entire track, or relative to the higher level signals then yes you can use compression. The compressors that you described are downward compression compressors. That means that in and of themselves they will not increase the low level signal. What they will do is decrease the peaks at high signal level. Then after you have used that compressor to decrease the high level peaks, you will use an overall gain increase to increase the overall volume of the track which effectively brings up the low level signals. Alternatively you can use upwards compression. This is different in that instead of decreasing the level of the peaks, you are increasing the level of the floor and the low level signals. In this case you don't typically have to adjust the overall track volume afterwards, because you've already accomplished your primary purpose of increasing the low level signals with the upward compressor. There are software and hardware versions for both downward and upward compression. I would suggest checking out some software versions hopefully maybe even some freeware versions (e.g. Ableton live has a stock OTT that does upward compression) to get familiarized with the upward and downward compression styles. And then decide how you might approach increasing the low level signals through either downward compression or upward compression, or a combination of both. It's a heck of a lot of fun! |
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Post by geoff738 on Oct 7, 2024 19:52:20 GMT -6
I too am interested in if the OP is doing this with an already recorded track and not adding gain to a quiet source on the way in. This would be an already recorded source. My co-wrtier sent me a stem that was averageing -25dbFS. Found some ways to bring it up, but didn't really grok the "standard" way of doing this - an article has suggested it could be, and maybe often was, done with a compressor. Now I can't find the article. Are you sure you want/need a compressor for this? Why not just do it inside your Daw? Cheers, Geoff Not sure of anything most days, but investigating the option. I suppose I could use clip gain as someone suggested, but there could be cool musical effect doing this with a compressor. Yes a compressor could be the solution. But if you just need to make the source louder? Clip gain or similar. I like compressors though. Depends what you want to do with them. Experiment. Have fun! Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 7, 2024 20:57:29 GMT -6
unless i missed it??? i'm really surprised no one mentioned the only tool that is for this specific purpose=an EXPANDER, they only increase the volume of the source and NOT the noise floor when you set them correctly👍
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Post by copperx on Oct 7, 2024 23:02:19 GMT -6
unless i missed it??? i'm really surprised no one mentioned the only tool that is for this specific purpose=an EXPANDER, they only increase the volume of the source and NOT the noise floor when you set them correctly👍
To be clear, you mean an upwards, not a downward expander, right?
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 7, 2024 23:10:21 GMT -6
I too am interested in if the OP is doing this with an already recorded track and not adding gain to a quiet source on the way in. This would be an already recorded source. My co-wrtier sent me a stem that was averageing -25dbFS. Found some ways to bring it up, but didn't really grok the "standard" way of doing this - an article has suggested it could be, and maybe often was, done with a compressor. Now I can't find the article. Are you sure you want/need a compressor for this? Why not just do it inside your Daw? Cheers, Geoff Not sure of anything most days, but investigating the option. I suppose I could use clip gain as someone suggested, but there could be cool musical effect doing this with a compressor. As it seems to me we are talking about gain staging here. Bringing the compressor into the discussion makes it a little confusing I think. You have plenty of range there. Just gain stage with clip gain your tracks to average at -18dbf. Raising that -25 to -18 is no issue. After that start mixing and figuring out if and what compression or riding etc. the track needs. Because what I can take out from your question is that you needed to bring up the gain of the track, nothing more, did i get it right? In these days I don’t see why you’d reach for anything else than clip gain for this as you likely need to gain stage your project anyway. The musical effect you are after will be way nicer to work with when you have the correct leveled feed into the compressor. This gain staging is a basic routine I would take the time to learn. When done correctly you will already have a decent raw mix at your hands at this stage. Then you will spend your time mixing rather than fixing issues. This will keep your levels working correctly with emulated plugs and hw units. Your end game will also be under control and your mixbus will thank you for it. |
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Post by bluesholyman on Oct 8, 2024 5:25:03 GMT -6
You are asking how to selectively increase the level of signals in the track that are at a low level, but at the same time leave the higher level signals unaffected... is that correct? No, I was referring to the entire clip. It seems clip gain may be more useful in this case. This would be an already recorded source. My co-wrtier sent me a stem that was averageing -25dbFS. Found some ways to bring it up, but didn't really grok the "standard" way of doing this - an article has suggested it could be, and maybe often was, done with a compressor. Now I can't find the article. Not sure of anything most days, but investigating the option. I suppose I could use clip gain as someone suggested, but there could be cool musical effect doing this with a compressor. Yes a compressor could be the solution. But if you just need to make the source louder? Clip gain or similar. I like compressors though. Depends what you want to do with them. Experiment. Have fun! Cheers, Geoff Yes, clip gain seems to be the thing. This would be an already recorded source. My co-wrtier sent me a stem that was averageing -25dbFS. Found some ways to bring it up, but didn't really grok the "standard" way of doing this - an article has suggested it could be, and maybe often was, done with a compressor. Now I can't find the article. Not sure of anything most days, but investigating the option. I suppose I could use clip gain as someone suggested, but there could be cool musical effect doing this with a compressor. As it seems to me we are talking about gain staging here. Bringing the compressor into the discussion makes it a little confusing I think. You have plenty of range there. Just gain stage with clip gain your tracks to average at -18dbf. Raising that -25 to -18 is no issue. After that start mixing and figuring out if and what compression or riding etc. the track needs. Because what I can take out from your question is that you needed to bring up the gain of the track, nothing more, did i get it right? In these days I don’t see why you’d reach for anything else than clip gain for this as you likely need to gain stage your project anyway. The musical effect you are after will be way nicer to work with when you have the correct leveled feed into the compressor. This gain staging is a basic routine I would take the time to learn. When done correctly you will already have a decent raw mix at your hands at this stage. Then you will spend your time mixing rather than fixing issues. This will keep your levels working correctly with emulated plugs and hw units. Your end game will also be under control and your mixbus will thank you for it. This was the answer I was looking for - thank you for elaborating on it so well. Much appreciated, to you, and everyone else. |
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