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Post by arckangel on Oct 8, 2024 12:18:46 GMT -6
There are a lot of talented Artists who show you live that they are singing to "tracks" usually the house mix has their vocal up so high you can hear them in unison with the track. And most will ad lib and do things to fully reveal to the audience that they are using tracks and sing their lead above it. This WOP thing is 10 years too late. Very few people try to hide it or get one over on their audience, it's not necessary anymore people "get it" just like they get pitch correction. yeah most all pop artists are lip syncing, audiences know it, it’s just taken for granted. Anytime a pop star is dancing while singing, it’s lip syncing. It’s physically impossible to do those large choreographed dance routines and sing with any accuracy. It’s sad but that’s the state of things. I liken it to movies…we know it’s all acting and special effects but we suspend our disbelief because it’s entertaining. Not necessarily. It depends a lot on the artist's stamina, and that's one the reasons why some pop stars work out strenuously. The stronger their cardio is, the stronger their breath control is, thus allowing them to dance and sing live at once. These dance performances below are all 100% vocally live—not lip-synced or pre-recorded to sound live. |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 8, 2024 12:24:42 GMT -6
This stuff is too funny. Even for me! Ketchup before bed. Ultimate test… Put these singers onstage minus a microphone. See/hear how they do.  |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 8, 2024 14:58:24 GMT -6
For me at least the difference between lip syncing in concert and the original point of this thread is that Ken tamplin is trying to entice and take money from young aspiring singers with the promise of signing well; and his compelling reason for doing so is to be able to sound like him.
But even he doesn't really sound like him anymore and so he had to instead fake the performance on the live stream that's designed for his students. I'm not up on strict legal terms, but that seems disingenuous at the least and perhaps even fraudulent.
It's akin to a chef selling cooking lessons and using as the compelling reason to buy his lessons a cooking show where he actually didn't do the cooking, and not only actually didn't do the cooking, but was unable to do that cooking.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 8, 2024 16:26:20 GMT -6
yeah most all pop artists are lip syncing, audiences know it, it’s just taken for granted. Anytime a pop star is dancing while singing, it’s lip syncing. It’s physically impossible to do those large choreographed dance routines and sing with any accuracy. It’s sad but that’s the state of things. I liken it to movies…we know it’s all acting and special effects but we suspend our disbelief because it’s entertaining. Not necessarily. It depends a lot on the artist's stamina, and that's one the reasons why some pop stars work out strenuously. The stronger their cardio is, the stronger their breath control is, thus allowing them to dance and sing live at once. These dance performances below are all 100% vocally live—not lip-synced or pre-recorded to sound live. Sure, not all of them do it 100% of the time...especially the older acts like Madonna. I was watching an older (late 90's) Michael Jackson concert the other day and he was clearly singing while dancing... but you could totally tell from the imperfections. But in today's world the vast majority of pop artists are lip syncing. Either 100% faking it or singing on top of lead vocal track that's as loud (if not louder) than their real vocal.
Edit: maybe we have different definitions of what "100% vocally live" means. That Brittany Spears video you posted clearly shows her singing over a rather loud lead vocal track. I don't consider that '100% live" just like I don't consider drums to be "100% real" if I've blended samples into the original tracks.
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Post by arckangel on Oct 9, 2024 20:42:45 GMT -6
But not just Tamplin. WoP has exposed The Eagles, Celine Dion and apparently now Lenny Kravitz. And be sure that many, many other artists are/have been doing the same maybe for years. So does that mean Milli Vanilli were frauds or just ahead of their time? 🫤 Of course with AI I expect these deceptions will become harder to pick because AI can be used to change the mimed audio just enough from the previously recorded and dubbed in version to be impossible to prove they are the same even with analysis software. The other aspect of this is it potentially brings us closer to ‘legitimising’ full blown AI created artists because if many of the so called legitimate artists we grew up with are now effectively cheating, and will be increasingly so using AI, then where does one draw the line as what can be considered acceptable? Specifically should ‘live’ concerts be required to state they are simulated or lipsynced? Milli Vanilli did not even step foot in the recording studio... They agreed to go along w/ their manager's idea of letting other singers dub all of their vocals. Those singers (The Eagles, Céline Dion, Lenny Kravitz, and so forth) are awesome, legendary vocalists. What if some tuning or tracks are occasionally used to help out a bit? Why is there even a need to "expose" them? Oh... Clicks, views and AdSense money, regardless of the damage that that could bring to the artists. |
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Oct 11, 2024 22:33:20 GMT -6
I have been studying vocals using Ken’s method since 2013. The man can sing and most of his female students that come on and do demonstrations. Sing for bands like trans Siberian orchestra.He also does lots of videos and collaborations with likes of Rudy Sarzo and other heavy hitters in the rock world. I have not watched the video posted so not sure what the subject is. Ken teaches open throat. He teaches how to grow your voice and expand your range. He’s the real deal. I’ve tried many coaches on the internet and found most of them are jokes compared to Ken. His main vocal course is intense. He’s also cousins with Sammy Hagar and was in a poplar Christian band back in the 80s. The dude has some pipes. I’ve seen him sing Pavarotti and nail it. Then sing sound garden and Michael Jackson. Now the dude is getting old and I’m sure his pipes aren’t what they use to be. Even at his age he still rock's. The dude is the real deal, his technique is solid. His academy is the best I’ve been apart of. Here is a little something that came up on google. Just search him out.
Ken Tamplin has worked with many singers, including:
Andraé Crouch: Gospel singer featured on Tamplin's 2001 album Make Me Your Voice
Sammy Hagar: Cousin of Van Halen's Sammy Hagar
Tamplin has also been invited to sing for many popular groups, including:
Motley Crue, Foreigner, INXS, Doobie Brothers, ELO, Black Sabbath, Accept, Peter Frampton, and Journey.
Tamplin is also a founding member of the group Shout, along with Chuck King. He has won four GMA Dove Awards, including Hard Music Album of the Year in 1994.
So I’m not sure who this guy in the video is or what he’s trying to say about Ken. I doubt all these bands would have wanted him to audition if he couldn’t back his stuff up. His teaching, his singing and his vocal acadamey are all leagues above all online vocal coaches I’ve seen and have tried. You will for sure get results practicing what he teaches.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 12, 2024 9:18:23 GMT -6
I have been studying vocals using Ken’s method since 2013. The man can sing and most of his female students that come on and do demonstrations. Sing for bands like trans Siberian orchestra.He also does lots of videos and collaborations with likes of Rudy Sarzo and other heavy hitters in the rock world. I have not watched the video posted so not sure what the subject is. Ken teaches open throat. He teaches how to grow your voice and expand your range. He’s the real deal. I’ve tried many coaches on the internet and found most of them are jokes compared to Ken. His main vocal course is intense. He’s also cousins with Sammy Hagar and was in a poplar Christian band back in the 80s. The dude has some pipes. I’ve seen him sing Pavarotti and nail it. Then sing sound garden and Michael Jackson. Now the dude is getting old and I’m sure his pipes aren’t what they use to be. Even at his age he still rock's. The dude is the real deal, his technique is solid. His academy is the best I’ve been apart of. Here is a little something that came up on google. Just search him out. Ken Tamplin has worked with many singers, including: Andraé Crouch: Gospel singer featured on Tamplin's 2001 album Make Me Your Voice Sammy Hagar: Cousin of Van Halen's Sammy Hagar Tamplin has also been invited to sing for many popular groups, including: Motley Crue, Foreigner, INXS, Doobie Brothers, ELO, Black Sabbath, Accept, Peter Frampton, and Journey. Tamplin is also a founding member of the group Shout, along with Chuck King. He has won four GMA Dove Awards, including Hard Music Album of the Year in 1994. So I’m not sure who this guy in the video is or what he’s trying to say about Ken. I doubt all these bands would have wanted him to audition if he couldn’t back his stuff up. His teaching, his singing and his vocal acadamey are all leagues above all online vocal coaches I’ve seen and have tried. You will for sure get results practicing what he teaches. Ken is reasonably good at his thing and no one is saying otherwise, but it doesn’t excuse his behavior. He is using pre recorded tracks for lead vox and lip syncing in his videos and passing them off as live, he’s even telling you what an monster guitarist he is and then air guitaring it in the same vid ffs(to get business?). They are factually NOT live, he got scientifically and respectfully EXPOSED dead to rights and now just like every other huckster he’s doubling down on his con, fake news, deep state, everyone’s a liar except him, blah blah blah, etc etc. I’m glad it’s happening, I’m so sick of liars and frauds, If every fos mutha humper vanished tmrw the internet would have 90% less traffic and the world would be a better place, Ken gambled a con with his well established career and is losing bigly, let that be a lesson to future chiselers in his sphere, and give me MORE of this Phil!!! I love it! I didn’t bust my ass to become a good musician to watch all these oxygen eating clowns piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining, fukdacons! |
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Post by Dan on Oct 12, 2024 11:13:14 GMT -6
“He’s Sammy Hagar’s cuz!” RGO at a new low.
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Post by chessparov on Oct 12, 2024 12:10:13 GMT -6
The unexpected Eruption of this all… Made me Jump!  He may be poplar But up a tree at the moment. Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 12, 2024 12:14:07 GMT -6
But not just Tamplin. WoP has exposed The Eagles, Celine Dion and apparently now Lenny Kravitz. And be sure that many, many other artists are/have been doing the same maybe for years. So does that mean Milli Vanilli were frauds or just ahead of their time? 🫤 Of course with AI I expect these deceptions will become harder to pick because AI can be used to change the mimed audio just enough from the previously recorded and dubbed in version to be impossible to prove they are the same even with analysis software. The other aspect of this is it potentially brings us closer to ‘legitimising’ full blown AI created artists because if many of the so called legitimate artists we grew up with are now effectively cheating, and will be increasingly so using AI, then where does one draw the line as what can be considered acceptable? Specifically should ‘live’ concerts be required to state they are simulated or lipsynced? Milli Vanilli did not even step foot in the recording studio... They agreed to go along w/ their manager's idea of letting other singers dub all of their vocals. Those singers (The Eagles, Céline Dion, Lenny Kravitz, and so forth) are awesome, legendary vocalists. What if some tuning or tracks are occasionally used to help out a bit? Why is there even a need to "expose" them? Oh... Clicks, views and AdSense money, regardless of the damage that that could bring to the artists. I enjoy “Musical Entertainers” like all these. But I balance it out with Classical Opera and Recital now. IMHO listening to both Non-Microphone and historical Pre-Microphone singing helps “educate” our Ears too. Chris |
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Post by christopher on Oct 14, 2024 8:54:20 GMT -6
Lip syncing is real, and it’s so common I would not be surprised if one of today’s charting artists is total AI with an actor
However they need to be careful with calling guys out the way WOP did here.
What I saw was based on change in room tone and timing with lips. Room tone can be explained by switching between camera mic and LDC. Why would anyone do that? Well there’s bone- headed reasons like oops I didn’t have pre-roll in PT to capture my talking.. so ..I know: just edit the camera mic for that part. Having tried to do some video myself this is the kind of crap I now see why guys just use the camera mic for VO instead of their studio gear, it’s way easier to just let the camera do the work.
And unfortunately, latency in video is a thing, as is video processing which sometimes throws off sync really bad. And 15 years ago I had this happen to some videos I shrunk for YouTube. So even legit things can be out of sync. Even the stones concert I saw in August was hard to watch with giant video screens being off by 250ms, slap echo for eyeballs lol
Finally I’m not saying wop is wrong about this guy.. just the explanations I heard could have some alternate reasoning
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Post by geoff738 on Oct 14, 2024 12:44:20 GMT -6
Finally I’m not saying wop is wrong about this guy.. just the explanations I heard could have some alternate reasoning This was my take too. Although perhaps my reference monitors are just not up to snuff. Cheers, Geoff |
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