mrcel0
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by mrcel0 on Oct 1, 2024 14:42:53 GMT -6
I have a small room and used to have the HS8s but now I have the Kali LP6 and they’re awesome much prefer them! It does help a bit that they are front ported as well with eq options in the back for different environment situations
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 1, 2024 14:54:13 GMT -6
If you’re really close to the speakers Dual Concentric/ Coax sure makes positioning and finding the sweet spot easier. My speaker search ended when I got a pair of Kef LS50’s…the concentric design is a dream. The imaging is so good. The phantom center can be erie good.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Oct 1, 2024 16:02:32 GMT -6
Your Neumann branded monitors have a metal dome. Sennheiser's driver OEM stuck a piece of fabric in front of it to try to damp the breakup but it's still an aluminum dome with the low hard breakup causing IMD in the audible band. They call it an "alloy fabric dome" and it pushes in when I push on it, so I doubt it's just a "metal dome with fabric in front of it". Also there is zero audible IMD. I don't care what you've read, it's bullshit. You are both absolutely right, and pretty much wrong. Everything Dan says about the distortion is absolutely true, but that silk pretty much dampens it , almost un noticeable, unless you have something with a world class tweeter next to them. It’s there but you won’t notice it much, maybe 1% more than if you compared an un-doped silk dome compared to a doped version ( how do you think silk domes keep their shape).
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Oct 1, 2024 16:06:21 GMT -6
If you’re really close to the speakers Dual Concentric/ Coax sure makes positioning and finding the sweet spot easier. My speaker search ended when I got a pair of Kef LS50’s…the concentric design is a dream. The imaging is so good. The phantom center can be erie good. The active KEFs should be the modern NS10, we should all have at least a pair. Plus if you must go full Atmos KEF+ SVS is pretty damn kick ass impressive! If you can find them the Pioneer DJ version of the KEF is awesome ( Pioneer is the parent company of TAD who use a very similar driver).
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 1, 2024 16:23:13 GMT -6
My speaker search ended when I got a pair of Kef LS50’s…the concentric design is a dream. The imaging is so good. The phantom center can be erie good. The active KEFs should be the modern NS10, we should all have at least a pair. Plus if you must go full Atmos KEF+ SVS is pretty damn kick ass impressive! If you can find them the Pioneer DJ version of the KEF is awesome ( Pioneer is the parent company of TAD who use a very similar driver). Ive heard good things about those pioneers but never tried them. I have the passive LS50’s with a JW modded Adcom amp…zero complaints. It took me a long time to realize how my brain likes to listen to music, wish I would’ve experimented with passive monitors along time ago.
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Post by skav on Oct 1, 2024 16:57:56 GMT -6
Hmmm... Now actually considering the big boys Neumann KH 310. Nearfield and is said by some reviews to work in small rooms. I see myself switch to a better room sometime in the future, so might be a good investment. I'd rather avoid a sub if I can..
Also at this point I'm not keen on DSP, which is new to the KH 80, KH 120 II and KH 150.
Reading all the praise for Neumann measurement DSP, it might be stupid of me, but I think I'd rather just avoid that whole thing.
Thoughts?
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Post by svart on Oct 1, 2024 17:41:45 GMT -6
Hmmm... Now actually considering the big boys Neumann KH 310. Nearfield and is said by some reviews to work in small rooms. I see myself switch to a better room sometime in the future, so might be a good investment. I'd rather avoid a sub if I can.. Also at this point I'm not keen on DSP, which is new to the KH 80, KH 120 II and KH 150. Reading all the praise for Neumann measurement DSP, it might be stupid of me, but I think I'd rather just avoid that whole thing. Thoughts? They're pretty small in size (quite heavy though) and I use them in a room that's roughly 15x12 just fine.
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Post by nnajar on Oct 1, 2024 17:43:49 GMT -6
If the 310 are in your budget, definitely get them. They’re fine up close in a small room, my mix room is tiny but the image and sound are amazing. When you move to a larger room, you’re likely to not replace them.
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Post by vvvooojjj on Oct 1, 2024 23:59:55 GMT -6
Genelec 8351B
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Post by skav on Oct 2, 2024 0:31:38 GMT -6
Internet-people seem to rate these as superior to the Neumann KH 310, so they seem great indeed. At more than twice the price though. Don't think I'm willing to spend that much at this stage, but thanks for the suggestion!
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Post by vvvooojjj on Oct 2, 2024 0:50:02 GMT -6
No prob. Hope you'll find a suitable monitor for your space.
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Post by kelk on Oct 2, 2024 3:13:29 GMT -6
My speaker search ended when I got a pair of Kef LS50’s…the concentric design is a dream. The imaging is so good. The phantom center can be erie good. The active KEFs should be the modern NS10, we should all have at least a pair. Plus if you must go full Atmos KEF+ SVS is pretty damn kick ass impressive! If you can find them the Pioneer DJ version of the KEF is awesome ( Pioneer is the parent company of TAD who use a very similar driver). Do you mean the wireless KEFs Eric? Have you mixed on these in the past?
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Post by nick8801 on Oct 2, 2024 3:50:30 GMT -6
The active KEFs should be the modern NS10, we should all have at least a pair. Plus if you must go full Atmos KEF+ SVS is pretty damn kick ass impressive! If you can find them the Pioneer DJ version of the KEF is awesome ( Pioneer is the parent company of TAD who use a very similar driver). Do you mean the wireless KEFs Eric? Have you mixed on these in the past? They make a passive wired version. Pretty sure that’s the one people are using in the studio. I have an older pair of floorstanding kefs in my living room. They have a similar mid driver/tweeter setup. Listening to my mixes on them can be really eye opening. They are very revealing. If I ever want to swap out my scm12’s, those lsr50’s are one of the speakers I really want to try out in my room.
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Post by kelk on Oct 2, 2024 4:25:41 GMT -6
I figured as much.. Just thought I'd check since Eric mentioned the active ones. Are you still using the behringer amp with your scm12's?
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Post by nick8801 on Oct 2, 2024 5:32:36 GMT -6
I figured as much.. Just thought I'd check since Eric mentioned the active ones. Are you still using the behringer amp with your scm12's? Yup! I don't want to jynx it, but that thing has been rock solid.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Oct 2, 2024 9:23:55 GMT -6
The active KEFs should be the modern NS10, we should all have at least a pair. Plus if you must go full Atmos KEF+ SVS is pretty damn kick ass impressive! If you can find them the Pioneer DJ version of the KEF is awesome ( Pioneer is the parent company of TAD who use a very similar driver). Do you mean the wireless KEFs Eric? Have you mixed on these in the past? There was a regular Active version, now that my only local KEF dealer is Best Buy I haven’t kept track of the versions.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Oct 2, 2024 13:56:55 GMT -6
Hmmm... Now actually considering the big boys Neumann KH 310. Nearfield and is said by some reviews to work in small rooms. I see myself switch to a better room sometime in the future, so might be a good investment. I'd rather avoid a sub if I can.. Also at this point I'm not keen on DSP, which is new to the KH 80, KH 120 II and KH 150. Reading all the praise for Neumann measurement DSP, it might be stupid of me, but I think I'd rather just avoid that whole thing. Thoughts? I was pretty anti DSP correction, then I started using it, first on subs than full range. Ill admit at first and even now many use DSP to cover poor driver choices and design choices, but man especially for small rooms you can sure solve a ton of issues. In my worlds of speaker designer and builder some of the tools now at my disposal is insane! Now while some of these options are not going to be available in most pre conceived systems I’ll give you one of my favorite examples. Yesterday was spent at a new bar I’m helping with, first some DSP EQ & Bandpass filters were used on a Ceiling mounted Bose in an alcove, the reflections off the walls have been minimized so it sounds like the main room. The crossover to the subs have been tweaked so that the crossover is exactly at the natural roll off freq of the room, so we are using choice of sub and sub amp gain vs a bunch of EQ ( we used LF EQ to precisely remove some pesky resonances. We could do it all analog but that would take more gear more money and the password sure is harder to figure out than it is to remove a bunch of security covers,
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Post by skav on Oct 2, 2024 14:55:20 GMT -6
Hmmm... Now actually considering the big boys Neumann KH 310. Nearfield and is said by some reviews to work in small rooms. I see myself switch to a better room sometime in the future, so might be a good investment. I'd rather avoid a sub if I can.. Also at this point I'm not keen on DSP, which is new to the KH 80, KH 120 II and KH 150. Reading all the praise for Neumann measurement DSP, it might be stupid of me, but I think I'd rather just avoid that whole thing. Thoughts? I was pretty anti DSP correction, then I started using it, first on subs than full range. Ill admit at first and even now many use DSP to cover poor driver choices and design choices, but man especially for small rooms you can sure solve a ton of issues. In my worlds of speaker designer and builder some of the tools now at my disposal is insane! Now while some of these options are not going to be available in most pre conceived systems I’ll give you one of my favorite examples. Yesterday was spent at a new bar I’m helping with, first some DSP EQ & Bandpass filters were used on a Ceiling mounted Bose in an alcove, the reflections off the walls have been minimized so it sounds like the main room. The crossover to the subs have been tweaked so that the crossover is exactly at the natural roll off freq of the room, so we are using choice of sub and sub amp gain vs a bunch of EQ ( we used LF EQ to precisely remove some pesky resonances. We could do it all analog but that would take more gear more money and the password sure is harder to figure out than it is to remove a bunch of security covers, Hmmm! Haha
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Post by kelk on Oct 3, 2024 0:37:43 GMT -6
I figured as much.. Just thought I'd check since Eric mentioned the active ones. Are you still using the behringer amp with your scm12's? Yup! I don't want to jynx it, but that thing has been rock solid. That's great to hear.. Was considering the atc 12's but the atc amp sure ramps up the price fast.
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Post by nick8801 on Oct 3, 2024 5:59:00 GMT -6
Yup! I don't want to jynx it, but that thing has been rock solid. That's great to hear.. Was considering the atc 12's but the atc amp sure ramps up the price fast. I had the ATC amp at first. It did sound great, but I had some issues with it and picked up the Behringer as a backup while it was being fixed. I thought the Behringer did an excellent job driving the speakers. Maybe not as pleasant sounding as the ATC, but plenty of power and punch.
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Post by nick8801 on Oct 3, 2024 6:00:21 GMT -6
For those of you who have used the Kef’s, did you have the mki’s or the newer metas? I have an opportunity to grab the mki’s at a decent price and I kind of want to give them a shot.
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Post by skav on Oct 3, 2024 8:47:40 GMT -6
It's between the Neumann KH 120 II, KH 150 and KH 310 now.
Prices are rough estimates, quick rough conversions from scandinavian valuta. KH 120 II for around $750 per monitor (discount) KH 150 is around $1400 per monitor KH 310 for around $1880 per monitor, (discount) which is not that big of a jump from KH 150 price. but I'm also thinking that the 310 is kind of old, and that it will be safer to go with the newer option, which is KH 150.
2-way KH 120 II (44hz - 21khz) 2-way KH 150 (39hz - 21khz) which is almost equal to the Yamaha HS8 (38 hz) I had before, which felt like enough for me at the time. 3-way KH 310 (34hz - 21khz) Plus the MA 1 (120 & 150) will be an extra cost, but a praised one.
I have found both the KH 120 II and the KH 310 at discounts, which is tempting. But I'm not sure. To add to the soup I have read a few accounts of people having different issues with the newer KH 120 II and KH 150.
Thoughts?
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 3, 2024 9:11:22 GMT -6
Has anyone tired these? As hyperbolic as dude is(and he is), I'm seriously contemplating these...., the Coax phase thing is very appealing to me considering i do a lot of old school OTB mixing where I need to lean and roll around to adjust stuff, the cost comparison to the near identical amphion's is unreal even though the cost is still very VERY steep considering you might not like them and they will have virtually ZERO resale value
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 3, 2024 10:33:49 GMT -6
For those of you who have used the Kef’s, did you have the mki’s or the newer metas? I have an opportunity to grab the mki’s at a decent price and I kind of want to give them a shot. I have the passive LS50 Metas. Not sure how they compare to thr mk i version but Ive heard the mk I sounds very good as well. I think Nobtwiddler has a pair? If not him then someone on RGO has a pair of the mk i’s because that’s where I heard of them first. Edit: the nice thing about the Kefs is that you can find them anywhere, Amazon/Best Buy etc. so it’s easy to buy them and return them if you don’t like them.
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Post by svart on Oct 3, 2024 10:57:22 GMT -6
It's between the Neumann KH 120 II, KH 150 and KH 310 now. Prices are rough estimates, quick rough conversions from scandinavian valuta. KH 120 II for around $750 per monitor (discount) KH 150 is around $1400 per monitor KH 310 for around $1880 per monitor, (discount) which is not that big of a jump from KH 150 price. but I'm also thinking that the 310 is kind of old, and that it will be safer to go with the newer option, which is KH 150. 2-way KH 120 II (44hz - 21khz) 2-way KH 150 (39hz - 21khz) which is almost equal to the Yamaha HS8 (38 hz) I had before, which felt like enough for me at the time. 3-way KH 310 (34hz - 21khz) Plus the MA 1 (120 & 150) will be an extra cost, but a praised one. I have found both the KH 120 II and the KH 310 at discounts, which is tempting. But I'm not sure. To add to the soup I have read a few accounts of people having different issues with the newer KH 120 II and KH 150. Thoughts? I've had my 310's for about 4-5 years now I think and have had zero issues. I do have the *D* version and use the digital (SPDIF/AES) inputs as my only inputs as well.
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