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Post by Dan on Sept 12, 2024 11:24:27 GMT -6
You need something fast and flexible with a lot of program dependency to speed up on transients but still control the body of the drums with a flexible enough release to set the drums into the mix and not pump in front of the vocals or other things supposed to be in front of them in the stereo image without brutally holding them down but of course bad mixes are everywhere. You also might want a large amount of filter shapes possible. otb you have right now: Daking stuff with the auto but release is slow for many types of music. Hard to screw up and slower initial release and faster secondary release than ssl bus compressors with the working auto release Distressor pair. Faster secondary release than daking. Very flexible. Of course they sound a sound and the distortion and you might want to limit the overshoots. Smart C2 with the two different attack shapes, crush, and cleaner sound than ssl. SSL auto release is very slow still. Drawmer 1978 has a lot of control and tonal shaping possibilities and a variety of releases. The Elysia stuff and the Crane Song STC-8 with the auto fast and attack modulation to speed up on transients can really fit things in. Itb: The Oxford dynamics is quite good with a controllable limiter for the louder portions or overshoots. The Oxford limiter is very good at control but quite “hard” on drum bus. The Tokyo Dawn stuff is fabulous and can control with a variety of envelopes and program dependencies. Kotelnikov can pretty much rebalance a kit. Unisum can too. Leapwing DynOne is multi band and can too with a more distorted sound from the butchering pumping of the harmonics PSP OldTimer MB is even more distorted and pumpy than that if you want full ringo but more control and you can set the crossover to be first other to sound less like FM radio. Klanghlem MJUC is super flexible for everything. You can use many of these as a special effect too or get a dedicated special fx thing like the (Softube) Chandler Germanum or Goodhertz Faraday or Vulf Compressors or all sorts of things but they don’t offer the program dependencies and control to fit the drums in the mix without being a parallel send to control the quieter parts blended with the dry and sent to another compressor or limiter to control the louder ones and use masking to make it sound okay. no love for the dangerous comp ? it has a lot of weird design choices like separate attack and release controls for each channel in a stereo compressor (how do you match them?) and an auto attack/release that is slow attack and very fast initial release but you might want to tweak that. It seems to me like they couldn’t decide to make a mono or stereo compressor and then made some combination of both but you cannot apply the side chain settings or smart dynamics to each channel separately. There’s also the mdwdrc which can have funky overshoots and weird bleed pumping from the linear release but can sound quite cool and be clean and the Weiss ds1 which has special effect overshoots and can bring out resonant heads by playing with the dual releases. Kotelnikov does what they do in a much less conspicuous way on drums but if you want what they do, they’re there. I own all three but it’s really hard to tell anyone to spend hundreds on the others for drums when kotelnikov is better on drums and free or 10 dollars on sale. |
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Post by jaba on Sept 12, 2024 11:32:41 GMT -6
Itb: The Oxford dynamics is quite good with a controllable limiter for the louder portions or overshoots. The Oxford limiter is very good at control but quite “hard” on drum bus. The Tokyo Dawn stuff is fabulous and can control with a variety of envelopes and program dependencies. Kotelnikov can pretty much rebalance a kit with frequency dependent ratio. Unisum can too. Leapwing DynOne is multi band and can too with a more distorted sound from the butchering pumping of the harmonics PSP OldTimer MB is even more distorted and pumpy than that if you want full ringo but more control and you can set the crossover to be first other to sound less like FM radio. Klanghlem MJUC is super flexible for everything. I struggle to find something as flexible and versatile as the TDR Molot GE on drum bus. It can saturate but can also be fairly clean, and just playing with the basic controls (attack, release, ratio, thereshold) you can gently squeeze, hammer down, create movement and groove, etc. Insane setting is important for drums for sure. Their Kotelnikov usually gets used here for jazzier/ cleaner type stuff but still super flexible. |
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Post by lowlou on Sept 12, 2024 12:00:55 GMT -6
I enjoyed reading the article you posted about the two stage compression Dan ! I saved it somewhere. After a drumbuss compression that dances around the peaks, the Dynax 3 in the Antidyna mode (over limiting , with a radical ratio of 0: minus infinity), ultra fast attack, release to taste (the idea being to annihilate all the peaks, and have the artifacted body breathe in rhytm and reinforce the loudness), SCF at 300hz, "Sorgin" (witch) mode engaged, blended to taste, fills the drumbus with a mean energy. But it's more like an upward compression thing at this point and suitable only for agressive music. The artifacts are crazy and full of excitement. It's the worst // compression you can do, which makes it irresistible. The Eventide comp could do that, to some extent, even if it doesn't have such a radical negative ratio I think. Call me deaf but I still get super results with the Audioscape DBX 260 haha ! The Stam 4K comp clone doesn't get used much for the time being. Might end up selling it. Boring ?  . Or purely utilitarian. Which IS the essence of a bus compressor, ok. The modded compellor is crazy good. Curious about the Gainlab Governor dual-slop detector compressor, and to see how you can apply 2-stage compression on it. About to receive the Pendulum PL-2. It doesn't flatten & supposedly keeps microdynamic intact, as long as you don't go more than 4dB over threshold. If it doesn't flatten everything, is it fair to still call it a limiter then ? I want to try it on the drumbus. (still plan on buying the Hum Laal for the mixbus sorry  ; maybe Rockruepel Limit.one too, all superior tools on paper) |
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Post by lowlou on Sept 12, 2024 12:14:42 GMT -6
Are SPL transient designers and Elysia Nvelope taboo on busses ?
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Post by Ward on Sept 12, 2024 12:20:15 GMT -6
Are SPL transient designers and Elisia Nvelope taboo on busses ? Hell no! Perfectly A-Ok. Also to be considered: Chandler Zeener and the Audioscape D-Comp. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 12, 2024 13:45:06 GMT -6
I enjoyed reading the article you posted about the two stage compression Dan ! I saved it somewhere. After a drumbuss compression that dances around the peaks, the Dynax 3 in the Antidyna mode (over limiting , with a radical ratio of 0: minus infinity), ultra fast attack, release to taste (the idea being to annihilate all the peaks, and have the artifacted body breath in rhytm and reinforce the loudness), SCF at 300hz, blended to taste, fills the drumbus with a mean energy. But it's more like an upward compression thing at this point and suitable only for agressive music. The artifacts are crazy and full of excitement. It's the worst // compression you can do, which makes it irresistible. The Eventide comp could do that, to some extent, even if it doesn't have such a radical negative ratio I think. Call me deaf but I still get super results with the Audioscape DBX 260 haha ! The Stam 4K comp clone doesn't get used much for the time being. Might end up selling it. Boring ? . Or purely utilitarian. Which IS the essence of a bus compressor, ok. The modded compellor is crazy good. Curious about the Gainlab Governor dual-slop detector compressor, and to see how you can apply 2-stage compression on it. About to receive the Pendulum PL-2. It doesn't flatten & supposedly keeps microdynamic intact, as long as you don't go more than 4dB over threshold. If it doesn't flatten everything, is it fair to still call it a limiter then ? I want to try it on the drumbus. (still plan on buying the Hum Laal for the mixbus sorry ; maybe Rockruepel Limit.one too, all superior tools on paper) Massenburg compressors and kotelnikov just do this as do the auto compressors and molot but most auto release compressors have some super long secondary release and don’t give you the full control on drums. |
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spud
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by spud on Sept 12, 2024 14:30:45 GMT -6
You need something fast and flexible with a lot of program dependency to speed up on transients but still control the body of the drums with a flexible enough release to set the drums into the mix and not pump in front of the vocals or other things supposed to be in front of them in the stereo image without brutally holding them down but of course bad mixes are everywhere. You also might want a large amount of filter shapes possible. otb, still made, with stereo control you have right now: Daking stuff with the auto but release is slow for many types of music. Hard to screw up and slower initial release and faster secondary release than ssl bus compressors with the working auto release Smart C2 with the two different attack shapes, crush, and cleaner sound than ssl. SSL auto release is very slow still. Drawmer 1978 has a lot of control and tonal shaping possibilities and a variety of releases. The Elysia stuff and the Crane Song STC-8 with the auto fast and attack modulation to speed up on transients can really fit things in. Itb: The Oxford dynamics is quite good with a controllable limiter for the louder portions or overshoots. The Oxford limiter is very good at control but quite “hard” on drum bus. The Tokyo Dawn stuff is fabulous and can control with a variety of envelopes and program dependencies. Kotelnikov can pretty much rebalance a kit with frequency dependent ratio. Unisum can too. Leapwing DynOne is multi band and can too with a more distorted sound from the butchering pumping of the harmonics PSP OldTimer MB is even more distorted and pumpy than that if you want full ringo but more control and you can set the crossover to be first other to sound less like FM radio. Klanghlem MJUC is super flexible for everything. You can use many of these as a special effect too or get a dedicated special fx thing like the (Softube) Chandler Germanum or Goodhertz Faraday or Vulf Compressors or all sorts of things but they don’t offer the program dependencies and control to fit the drums in the mix without being a parallel send to control the quieter parts blended with the dry and sent to another compressor or limiter to control the louder ones and use masking to make it sound okay. The Softube Germanium is really cool on drums ,I like what he does, but you have to anticipate because depending on how you push him, the bottom quickly becomes too much. Staying within the obvious compressions, I recently accidentally tried the UAD LA-2A gray and really liked what it did. With the R37 being more high-frequency responsive, it made a very interesting snare sound and using the mix knob it was perfect for this track.I recently accidentally tried the UAD LA-2A gray and really liked what it did. With the R37 being more high-frequency responsive, it made a very interesting snare sound and using the mix knob it was perfect for this track. |
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 12, 2024 14:49:46 GMT -6
After chatting to my main pro audio dealer (he knows my gear collection)
On his advice, I'm using my Thermionic Phoenix MP to really smash the drum bus and render to file.
I'm then bringing this back into the mix as a parallel (Cubase's I/O inserts work to perfection so there's no issue with a parallel)
It sounds really great - tons of energy and vibe - dial in to taste. Just a touch adds a great glue and vibe.
Saved me money too - not a bad thing - as I have my heart set on a Motorcity EQ :-)
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Post by Dan on Sept 12, 2024 15:46:01 GMT -6
the typical auto release ones just have one fixed fast and slow release. So you cannot get full control. They just control the initial stick (ssl) or drum note (daking. Better if your stuff is more controlled on the individual mics) and then slowly level the audio.
Something with three releases like Kotelnikov (automatic on fast events and slows down on slow ones and bass), MDWDRC, Molot (4: first, second, instant/relaxed, and the limiter) Unisum (use transient override for a third release in addition to quiet loud), Oxford limiter (enhance, the release you set, and auto gain), Aphex Compellor (rip Aphex), U-he Presswerk (adapt has 8 releases!) gives you a lot more control. Stick, resonance/the verse/fill, and overall level.
Kotlenikov and others like Unisum and some analog compressors like some dbx variants and api 525 have different timings when triggered by different frequencies too to not distort the lows or hold down the highs.
Pro Audio DSP DSM is a fabulous general compressor and doesn’t lose fidelity in the cymbals or zip up the kick and floor. You can really control events from various drums and it doesn’t sound bad.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 19, 2024 10:30:38 GMT -6
Be like Katy !?  |
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 19, 2024 14:10:59 GMT -6
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Post by forgotteng on Sept 24, 2024 13:08:12 GMT -6
My Go to on drums for the last 8 years has been the Overstayer Stereo VCA. Love it.
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 24, 2024 15:21:16 GMT -6
My Go to on drums for the last 8 years has been the Overstayer Stereo VCA. Love it. I need to try this on more stuff. It has been my 2 buss compressor for forever, just pulling a couple or three dbs. I know it can do a lot more than that. Really like the eq too. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by paulcheeba on Sept 24, 2024 22:57:28 GMT -6
My Go to on drums for the last 8 years has been the Overstayer Stereo VCA. Love it. I love the Overstayers also my old Compex, Neves, Dynax Mk1, Chandler Zener and Amtec 099’s. These are some I use to create crazy stems and prints. |
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Post by stam on Sept 25, 2024 1:57:09 GMT -6
Stam SA-4000 on E mode with API Mod
Neve 33609 MK
Stam 25609
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Post by poppaflavor on Sept 25, 2024 6:09:18 GMT -6
I really like the Chandler germanium compressor on drums! It's a very unique proposition :-)
I started out using the software plugin from soft tube, and in that case could use it on the drum bus. I loved it so much though that I bought a hardware unit and a PSU, but it's mono only so I'm stuck doing individual drum tracks.
I'm in the process of saving up for a second hardware Chandler germanium comp and then can use it on the bus like I did with a software.
That Chandler germanium comp is one you should definitely check out if you ever decide to perhaps spend that money after all.
There's absolutely nothing like it, and it's incredibly flexible with the negative feedback and the wet dry, as well as multiple different diode arrays for softness of the knee.
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Post by theshea on Sept 25, 2024 7:01:22 GMT -6
Stam SA-4000 on E mode with API Mod Neve 33609 MK Stam 25609 ok than please send me my ordered and „in stock“ sa-609 mk2 and i will test it ;-) |
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Post by svart on Sept 25, 2024 8:04:08 GMT -6
I used a 2254 but switched to the Arouser when I went ITB and I don't miss it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 25, 2024 9:27:44 GMT -6
Stam SA-4000 on E mode with API ModNeve 33609 MK Stam 25609 Hi Josh, after you commented on my SSL/API build a while back i read about your ^ rig, it looks really cool, is there any pics of the guts? I'm curious how you shoehorned 4 transformers and a couple 2520's in a single space along with a PSU? Here's a pic of my SSL/API hybrid again(no interest to duplicate, just curious)  |
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Post by poppaflavor on Sept 26, 2024 11:13:40 GMT -6
I really like the Chandler germanium compressor on drums! It's a very unique proposition :-) I started out using the software plugin from soft tube, and in that case could use it on the drum bus. I loved it so much though that I bought a hardware unit and a PSU, but it's mono only so I'm stuck doing individual drum tracks. I'm in the process of saving up for a second hardware Chandler germanium comp and then can use it on the bus like I did with a software. That Chandler germanium comp is one you should definitely check out if you ever decide to perhaps spend that money after all. There's absolutely nothing like it, and it's incredibly flexible with the negative feedback and the wet dry, as well as multiple different diode arrays for softness of the knee. Damn this enabling thread. I just ordered a second hardware Chandler germ comp so I can do that mix/drum buss thing. The dark part of my heart can't wait to try mid-side lol. I'm going to lean into that negative feedback for the hats on the sides and some of that reverberant tail of the snare. Then solidify the thump of a kick down the mids and make sure we got a whopping wallop of crack from that snare up the middle. I'm thinking dirty mode for the sides and clean for the mids cuz I'm not super keen on distorted kick. Although you can be sure I'm going to try it :-) I can almost taste it. By the way, I didn't quite make it to the point where I'd saved up for it :-) But at the same time I own the PSU which serves two units and that's a sunk cost so why the heck not? |
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. Or purely utilitarian. Which IS the essence of a bus compressor, ok.
; maybe Rockruepel Limit.one too, all superior tools on paper) 
