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Post by drumsound on Aug 21, 2024 18:32:06 GMT -6
So, it's mic buyin' time. The three listed are what I'm trying to choose between.
The V44s is already in the 3rd place, but it still seems like it's a something thought would be quite useful.
The V13 has intrigued me since it's inception, and I hear nothing but good things from owners, and enjoy everything I've heard done with it.
My good friend with access to a good number of mics has been telling me about Lauten for a while, and The Atlantis is a very unique beast, but basically 3 sets of electronics for different sounds at the flick of a switch.
Interestingly, they all have edge terminated capsules...
I also like the way both companies do business.
Anyone used them all?
Please don't add mics to the list. I have other things I'm considering, but I'm wondering about these right now.
Thanks
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Post by doubledog on Aug 21, 2024 21:16:49 GMT -6
what do you think you will use these for?
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Post by andersmv on Aug 21, 2024 21:58:52 GMT -6
Do you really need a stereo mic? If you do, the V44s is really spectacular… I’ve got all the Vanguard stuff, I’m obviously a huge fan. My friend has an Atlantis and I’ve worked with most of the Lauten stuff. The Atlantis is crazy versatile and is going to cover the most ground. I would say the V13 has a little more character than the Atlantis. Definitely smoother and more mellow on the top end. Most of the Lautens have a cleaner mid range that’s nice and clear to my ears.
If you need to cover a lot of ground, Lauten all the way. It would be hard for me to live without my V13 at this point, I really love it. V44s is amazing, but only reason to pick it over the other two is stereo specific.
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Post by ab101 on Aug 21, 2024 22:30:20 GMT -6
The V13 is an amazing smooth mic for the money. I bought it after hearing it used by andersmv! But as stated above, really smooth (which is character imho), is not as versatile. However, for some voices where that extra amount of smoothness is needed, it may be ideal.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 21, 2024 22:34:45 GMT -6
what do you think you will use these for? Vocals, acoustic things, maybe percussion, mono room (which I don't do that often). Piano possibly (though I usually record piano in stereo). I'm sure I'll try whatever I get on electric guitar and then (like almost every time I use a condenser on an amp) and scratch my head and then grab the nearest dynamic mic. Do you really need a stereo mic? If you do, the V44s is really spectacular… I’ve got all the Vanguard stuff, I’m obviously a huge fan. My friend has an Atlantis and I’ve worked with most of the Lauten stuff. The Atlantis is crazy versatile and is going to cover the most ground. I would say the V13 has a little more character than the Atlantis. Definitely smoother and more mellow on the top end. Most of the Lautens have a cleaner mid range that’s nice and clear to my ears. If you need to cover a lot of ground, Lauten all the way. It would be hard for me to live without my V13 at this point, I really love it. V44s is amazing, but only reason to pick it over the other two is stereo specific. I have an inexpensive stereo mic, and it's been on drum room for a few weeks. Conceptually I like the idea. I don't need a stere mic per se. I think I'd (maybe) rather have a stereo ribbon. But that's a whole other topic. I like the way you're describing the V13 AND the Atlantis. |
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Post by drumsound on Aug 21, 2024 22:36:00 GMT -6
The V13 is an amazing smooth mic for the money. I bought it after hearing it used by andersmv! But as stated above, really smooth (which is character imho), is not as versatile. However, for some voices where that extra amount of smoothness is needed, it may be ideal. That's always drawn me in when I listen to that mic as well. And, I'll be honest, I think it's a great looking mic! |
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 22, 2024 8:11:31 GMT -6
I'll be Captain Obvious here. I have a couple of stereo mics and love them. Love. Keep in mind that with a stereo mic, you don't have to use it as a stereo mic. You can also use it as a mono mic, using one diaphragm/channel. Making a stereo mic even more versatile.
-09
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Post by robo on Aug 22, 2024 8:48:55 GMT -6
I don’t know if this is helpful, but I like what I’ve heard of all these mics as well.
I draw a big distinction between fet and tube mics in my studio. A good versatile fet mic always on a stand, ready to be moved in front of whatever odd thing you are recording is really helpful for workflow in fast-paced sessions, demos, etc. Most of the time I prefer tube mics on any given source, but the extra hassle of power supply and warm up mean I only use them in more predictable sessions.
Maybe a factor to consider. Please let us know what you get and what you think!
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Post by mcirish on Aug 22, 2024 9:23:00 GMT -6
I have a V13 and V44S. Of those two, I use the V44S more, but it's always a room mic. Put it in blumlein. Man, that's a great sound. I was actually a bit disappointed in the V13. I was hoping it might have a bit more girth in the low end. So far, it hasn't won any vocal shootouts, but I will try it on a new artist today. That said, I've found the V13 to be really nice on cello. I combine it with a Alder ribbon and I get a great sound. On vocals, the V13 just seemed a bit flat. Maybe I want more character. I was thinking of buying one of Ben's CK12 capsules and putting it in. The Vanguard mics seem very well built, so I have no complaints about that.
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Post by vanguardaudiolabs on Aug 22, 2024 13:55:51 GMT -6
The Lauten mics are fantastic and Trent does a great job with them. One of the first big tests we did was a Lauten Eden (I believe it was the Eden, but it could have been the Atlantis - I think this was in 2014 or 2015) against the first prototype V13 at the studio of Cesar Mejia, who engineers for Herbie Hancock. It was on vocal and we found the sweet spot for the V13 was in wide cardioid for this particular vocalist. In blind testing the vocalist, the assistant, Cesar, and I all preferred the V13, but it was a very close thing. RE: the smoothness - that's something Ken and I both prefer on microphones, and so it shows in the subjective way we voiced the V13. The capsule starts to dip a little bit in the extreme top (11k+), and we focused on the 3-10k range not having any major jumps and bumps. IMO the K67-style capsules out of Asia are notorious for sibilance and that's a BIG reason why. I hear from artists a lot that they love not having to do a boatload of de-essing when they switch to the V13 like they were doing with mics based on the K67-style capsule design. I have a V13 and V44S. Of those two, I use the V44S more, but it's always a room mic. Put it in blumlein. Man, that's a great sound. I was actually a bit disappointed in the V13. I was hoping it might have a bit more girth in the low end. So far, it hasn't won any vocal shootouts, but I will try it on a new artist today. That said, I've found the V13 to be really nice on cello. I combine it with a Alder ribbon and I get a great sound. On vocals, the V13 just seemed a bit flat. Maybe I want more character. I was thinking of buying one of Ben's CK12 capsules and putting it in. The Vanguard mics seem very well built, so I have no complaints about that. Try it in wide cardioid, IMO the most magical pattern ever created. That's where i find the V13 really speaks, and I always start it there on vocals and then move it towards figure 8 to find the sweet spot for that particular vocalist. polar pattern is not just for rejection or room pickup - it affects the entire FR of the mic…it's a quirk of the way dual-diaphragm capsules work, but it's one you can use to your advantage. That's one thing about tube mics I adore, and one thing about FET mics that's a bit disappointing - very few FET mics give a wide cardioid option, and it's a stellar option. We wanted to work it into the V4 gen2, but part of the issue is finding 4-way switches that either don't suck or aren't too big. AKG designed their own for the C414, and it wasn't too big but it definitely sucked and they kept it around for decades…which is nice because it keeps giving me mic repair business  I've got a dozen C414s on their way to me with either switch issues or a busted frame right now! |
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Post by Shadowk on Aug 22, 2024 14:32:25 GMT -6
Must admit, I’m rather picky and like the Vanguard stuff in general.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 22, 2024 16:47:59 GMT -6
Both companies are excellent, I have only heard samples of the Vanguard and spent a limited time with the Atlantis , I could probably live with either. I do get the idea of wanting an easy quick to set up stereo mic but man any time I have invested in a decent stereo mic I find I really could use 2 mono versions on a session!
Check your PM’s
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 22, 2024 17:28:46 GMT -6
I hate it when people do this and suggest something totally different but I gotta say if it was me I’d go for a Soyuz or a Beesneez for a bit more character.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 22, 2024 18:02:54 GMT -6
I'll be Captain Obvious here. I have a couple of stereo mics and love them. Love. Keep in mind that with a stereo mic, you don't have to use it as a stereo mic. You can also use it as a mono mic, using one diaphragm/channel. Making a stereo mic even more versatile. -09 I have always thought that was a possibility. I don’t know if this is helpful, but I like what I’ve heard of all these mics as well. I draw a big distinction between fet and tube mics in my studio. A good versatile fet mic always on a stand, ready to be moved in front of whatever odd thing you are recording is really helpful for workflow in fast-paced sessions, demos, etc. Most of the time I prefer tube mics on any given source, but the extra hassle of power supply and warm up mean I only use them in more predictable sessions. Maybe a factor to consider. Please let us know what you get and what you think! Yeah, I get that and do the same. I mostly use tube mics in the booth. I have a V13 and V44S. Of those two, I use the V44S more, but it's always a room mic. Put it in blumlein. Man, that's a great sound. I was actually a bit disappointed in the V13. I was hoping it might have a bit more girth in the low end. So far, it hasn't won any vocal shootouts, but I will try it on a new artist today. That said, I've found the V13 to be really nice on cello. I combine it with a Alder ribbon and I get a great sound. On vocals, the V13 just seemed a bit flat. Maybe I want more character. I was thinking of buying one of Ben's CK12 capsules and putting it in. The Vanguard mics seem very well built, so I have no complaints about that. I do love Blumlein! Plus that box with dual outputs to do M/S... The Lauten mics are fantastic and Trent does a great job with them. One of the first big tests we did was a Lauten Eden (I believe it was the Eden, but it could have been the Atlantis - I think this was in 2014 or 2015) against the first prototype V13 at the studio of Cesar Mejia, who engineers for Herbie Hancock. It was on vocal and we found the sweet spot for the V13 was in wide cardioid for this particular vocalist. In blind testing the vocalist, the assistant, Cesar, and I all preferred the V13, but it was a very close thing. RE: the smoothness - that's something Ken and I both prefer on microphones, and so it shows in the subjective way we voiced the V13. The capsule starts to dip a little bit in the extreme top (11k+), and we focused on the 3-10k range not having any major jumps and bumps. IMO the K67-style capsules out of Asia are notorious for sibilance and that's a BIG reason why. I hear from artists a lot that they love not having to do a boatload of de-essing when they switch to the V13 like they were doing with mics based on the K67-style capsule design. I have a V13 and V44S. Of those two, I use the V44S more, but it's always a room mic. Put it in blumlein. Man, that's a great sound. I was actually a bit disappointed in the V13. I was hoping it might have a bit more girth in the low end. So far, it hasn't won any vocal shootouts, but I will try it on a new artist today. That said, I've found the V13 to be really nice on cello. I combine it with a Alder ribbon and I get a great sound. On vocals, the V13 just seemed a bit flat. Maybe I want more character. I was thinking of buying one of Ben's CK12 capsules and putting it in. The Vanguard mics seem very well built, so I have no complaints about that. Try it in wide cardioid, IMO the most magical pattern ever created. That's where i find the V13 really speaks, and I always start it there on vocals and then move it towards figure 8 to find the sweet spot for that particular vocalist. polar pattern is not just for rejection or room pickup - it affects the entire FR of the mic…it's a quirk of the way dual-diaphragm capsules work, but it's one you can use to your advantage. That's one thing about tube mics I adore, and one thing about FET mics that's a bit disappointing - very few FET mics give a wide cardioid option, and it's a stellar option. We wanted to work it into the V4 gen2, but part of the issue is finding 4-way switches that either don't suck or aren't too big. AKG designed their own for the C414, and it wasn't too big but it definitely sucked and they kept it around for decades…which is nice because it keeps giving me mic repair business I've got a dozen C414s on their way to me with either switch issues or a busted frame right now! I appreciate this Derek, especially that you start saying the your competitor makes great mics. You do have me thinking about wide cardioid now... Must admit, I’m rather picky and like the Vanguard stuff in general. Interesting... What are you using them on? Both companies are excellent, I have only heard samples of the Vanguard and spent a limited time with the Atlantis , I could probably live with either. I do get the idea of wanting an easy quick to set up stereo mic but man any time I have invested in a decent stereo mic I find I really could use 2 mono versions on a session! Check your PM’s I do have a lot of pairs of mics, maybe I need a high quality stereo bar... I answered you PM  I hate it when people do this and suggest something totally different but I gotta say if it was me I’d go for a Soyuz or a Beesneez for a bit more character. I have other things in mind, but wanted to get a feel about these three as a starting point. I gotta say with Soyuz, I'd want a Bomblet or one of the 'special edition' other models because a fucking HATE the cream and gold look of those things. THANK YOU ALL! |
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Post by vanguardaudiolabs on Aug 23, 2024 12:58:58 GMT -6
I appreciate this Derek, especially that you start saying the your competitor makes great mics. You do have me thinking about wide cardioid now... There is no mic that's right for everything. At a certain quality point, IMO, all mics are fantastic, but different flavors/colors. I've definitely run into voices that do NOT fit the V13. One thing I respect a lot about Trent's mics is that he's got a similar philosophy to ours - we're not trying to make the 97th shade of "U47 green" or "C12 purple", but rather stick a brand new color on your palette. For a creative industry that thrives on new things, we sure are conservative about gear design and gear in general. I'd rather look forward and try to do something new - and potentially fall on my face - than look backwards and make the 80th U47 FET lookalike for $50 cheaper than the last guy. There's nothing WRONG with U47s or with vintage gear in general - a lot of it is quite incredible. I'd just be very bored if that's what I did with Vanguard. It's way more fun, albeit a much harder road, to do something new and interesting. As Ken used to say "either build a new mousetrap, or make a better one." -DEREK |
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Post by Shadowk on Aug 23, 2024 17:26:55 GMT -6
drumsound vocals and acoustic mainly but I’ve never been dissatisfied with the v13 on anything really. Plus for this quality of mic it is cheap.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 23, 2024 18:29:30 GMT -6
I appreciate this Derek, especially that you start saying the your competitor makes great mics. You do have me thinking about wide cardioid now... There is no mic that's right for everything. At a certain quality point, IMO, all mics are fantastic, but different flavors/colors. I've definitely run into voices that do NOT fit the V13. One thing I respect a lot about Trent's mics is that he's got a similar philosophy to ours - we're not trying to make the 97th shade of "U47 green" or "C12 purple", but rather stick a brand new color on your palette. For a creative industry that thrives on new things, we sure are conservative about gear design and gear in general. I'd rather look forward and try to do something new - and potentially fall on my face - than look backwards and make the 80th U47 FET lookalike for $50 cheaper than the last guy. There's nothing WRONG with U47s or with vintage gear in general - a lot of it is quite incredible. I'd just be very bored if that's what I did with Vanguard. It's way more fun, albeit a much harder road, to do something new and interesting. As Ken used to say "either build a new mousetrap, or make a better one." -DEREK I have a decent sized mic locker, so I'm adding to the palette. I love that you and Trent are both making new and unique offerings. I love seeing both companies pushing the envelopes. I will have a Vanguard something(s) in time. drumsound vocals and acoustic mainly but I’ve never been dissatisfied with the v13 on anything really. Plus for this quality of mic it is cheap. Good to know. |
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Post by drumsound on Aug 23, 2024 18:31:05 GMT -6
I checked the Lauten B-stock page and called in to talk to Trent today. What a nice guy. He's totally upfront. The deal was too good to pass up. But I will add some Vanguard pieces in time.
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miked
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Post by miked on Aug 25, 2024 7:22:38 GMT -6
Looks like you already purchased the Atlantis, but for anyone else who's curious about these mics, I recently had an Atlantis at the studio for a few days and did a quick vocal shootout with my V13:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-f%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D09e2076e768e44fb828cf3568b1f5688%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-n%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3Db12473d4bbe343168ba313e812134088%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-g%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D689bf2fc5bdc4d4588d8d79c376b13b6%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/v13%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D67a4670c8b8e4080a4a428c1ad2a67ce%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
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Post by drumsound on Aug 25, 2024 9:57:59 GMT -6
Looks like you already purchased the Atlantis, but for anyone else who's curious about these mics, I recently had an Atlantis at the studio for a few days and did a quick vocal shootout with my V13: https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-f%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D09e2076e768e44fb828cf3568b1f5688%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-n%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3Db12473d4bbe343168ba313e812134088%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-g%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D689bf2fc5bdc4d4588d8d79c376b13b6%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/v13%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D67a4670c8b8e4080a4a428c1ad2a67ce%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharingI still appreciate this, and I'm going to dive into them later. V13 is still high on my desire list. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 25, 2024 10:42:11 GMT -6
+1 on "Wide Cardiod" for many vocals.*
Thanks Derek for bringing this up.
Very helpful.
Ben Sneesby himself originally advised me to make this my Default setting! (If available)
Chris
*Patterns? You can't have only one!
(To paraphrase the Olde Lay's Potato Chip commercial)
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Post by drumsound on Aug 26, 2024 11:30:22 GMT -6
Looks like you already purchased the Atlantis, but for anyone else who's curious about these mics, I recently had an Atlantis at the studio for a few days and did a quick vocal shootout with my V13: https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-f%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D09e2076e768e44fb828cf3568b1f5688%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-n%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3Db12473d4bbe343168ba313e812134088%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/atlantis-g%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D689bf2fc5bdc4d4588d8d79c376b13b6%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharinghttps%3A//soundcloud.com/user-322142592/v13%3Fin%3Duser-322142592/sets/lauten-atlantis-vs-vanguard-v13%26amp%3Bsi%3D67a4670c8b8e4080a4a428c1ad2a67ce%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharingThanks so much for these. They all sound great. Is that you singing? I really like the voice. What's the preamp and converter you were using? |
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miked
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Post by miked on Aug 26, 2024 14:46:59 GMT -6
Thanks so much for these. They all sound great. Is that you singing? I really like the voice. What's the preamp and converter you were using? Nope, not me! Her name is Angelina Valente (and the song is called Take Me Back, to be released sometime this fall). But I agree, her voice is awesome! And they were run through an Audient ASP800. |
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miked
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Post by miked on Aug 26, 2024 14:49:20 GMT -6
+1 on "Wide Cardiod" for many vocals.* Thanks Derek for bringing this up. Very helpful. Ben Sneesby himself originally advised me to make this my Default setting! (If available) Chris *Patterns? You can't have only one! (To paraphrase the Olde Lay's Potato Chip commercial) I just tried wide cardioid on a vocal session the other day based on Derek's recommendation in this thread and thought it sounded amazing! I'll definitely have to do a little more experimentation with the polar patterns on the V13! |
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Post by drumsound on Aug 26, 2024 16:32:02 GMT -6
Thanks so much for these. They all sound great. Is that you singing? I really like the voice. What's the preamp and converter you were using? Nope, not me! Her name is Angelina Valente (and the song is called Take Me Back, to be released sometime this fall). But I agree, her voice is awesome! And they were run through an Audient ASP800. Thanks. Let us know when it's released. |
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I've got a dozen C414s on their way to me with either switch issues or a busted frame right now!
