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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 9, 2024 13:54:05 GMT -6
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Post by phdamage on Aug 10, 2024 21:17:16 GMT -6
not the 251s I would hope to see compared. figured Upton, Beesneez or maybe even the Flea, ADK or Golden Age. Seems weird to have the Warm in there either way.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Aug 10, 2024 22:09:49 GMT -6
not the 251s I would hope to see compared. figured Upton, Beesneez or maybe even the Flea, ADK or Golden Age. Seems weird to have the Warm in there either way. While I don’t completely disagree in theory, one take what one can get at the time. The Warm also in its own way is as significant as the Telefunken USA because it represents the most affordable widely available option. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 10, 2024 23:46:16 GMT -6
IMHO the 3U capsules (like the Warm 251) tend to be a bit veiled in tone.
Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 11, 2024 6:05:26 GMT -6
The Warm mics are a mixed bag. Most of their mics tend to be a bit darker (duller) than expected; WA87, WA67, WA12, and WA251. It can be a good thing or a bad thing. The WA67 didn’t sound to bad on its own when I owned it, but was muddy and dull. While EQing it within a mix I found I had issues making it work without making it anemic sounding. I maintain the WA47 is a solid 47 style entry level mic, although it had a bit more top end and low end.
This shout out was fine. The reveal video reminded me why I learned to do this in the first place. He didn’t hear what made the Telefunken 251 and UA/Bock so much more musical sounding and missed almost all his guesses. Perhaps it lacked something he was listening for, or the Warm and Circle Audio just sounded closer to what he’d be looking for in a mix, which is fair. I thought the Tele stuck out, as it has that saturation quality that’s almost compression that I hear in all of the vintage and high end mics. The UA has it too, but it is more modern sounding. I liked the Circle Audio better than the Warm, but not nearly as much as the Telefunken or the UA.
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 11, 2024 9:04:25 GMT -6
I posted the blind Heiserman vs the Beesneez on the purple place and Beesneez was the favourite.
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Post by drbill on Aug 11, 2024 11:02:26 GMT -6
I posted the blind Heiserman vs the Beesneez on the purple place and Beesneez was the favourite. But in fairness Paul, the Heiserman had the tube changed out. Would have loved to have heard "stock vs stock". Still, appreciated. The BN certainly sounds great. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 11, 2024 12:52:16 GMT -6
I posted the blind Heiserman vs the Beesneez on the purple place and Beesneez was the favourite. But in fairness Paul, the Heiserman had the tube changed out. Would have loved to have heard "stock vs stock". Still, appreciated. The BN certainly sounds great. The original TAD tube in the Heiserman sounded flat and boxy. I swapped the tube to a NOS triple mica to give it a chance. The H251 is a very nice mic. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 11, 2024 13:36:45 GMT -6
I posted the blind Heiserman vs the Beesneez on the purple place and Beesneez was the favourite. link? |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 11, 2024 14:34:43 GMT -6
The link is here about the middle of the page. gearspace.com/board/high-end/1414634-beesneez-reinvention-19.htmlPaul I am surprised that you changed the tube in the Heisermann for an RCA 6072. "So I found a nice NOS tube for the Heiserman to level the playing field. It was an old RCA one". I find them the worst version of the 6072. They sound nothing like a GE. I believe in another thread wave and Eric both talked about hand selecting the tube and how happy they were with the TAD (JJ) tube they were using.
What tube is in the BN251?
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 11, 2024 14:36:53 GMT -6
Is that a JJ 6702 ?
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 11, 2024 15:10:45 GMT -6
The link is here about the middle of the page. gearspace.com/board/high-end/1414634-beesneez-reinvention-19.htmlPaul I am surprised that you changed the tube in the Heisermann for an RCA 6072. "So I found a nice NOS tube for the Heiserman to level the playing field. It was an old RCA one". I find them the worst version of the 6072. They sound nothing like a GE. I believe in another thread wave and Eric both talked about hand selecting the tube and how happy they were with the TAD (JJ) tube they were using.
What tube is in the BN251?
Well the ones I were using were the same as GE tubes I had about 50 sitting there. Many 5* white, 90% triple mica. They sounded fantastic Ben’s came with matched NOS not cheap modern ones like most and why are you judging something you had nothing to do with? |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 11, 2024 15:15:13 GMT -6
Well the ones I were using were the same as GE tubes I had about 50 sitting there. Many 5* white, 90% triple mica. They sounded fantastic and why are you judging something you had nothing to do with? Paul I am a member here and can contribute to any thread I like. I am speaking from my experience.
As I said there have been many threads here about both mics and in none of those discussions (including many sound clips) has anyone described the stock H251 as flat and boxy
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 11, 2024 15:18:17 GMT -6
I posted the blind Heiserman vs the Beesneez on the purple place and Beesneez was the favourite. But in fairness Paul, the Heiserman had the tube changed out. Would have loved to have heard "stock vs stock". Still, appreciated. The BN certainly sounds great. b Buy a BN and you can hear stock for stock. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 11, 2024 15:20:13 GMT -6
Well the ones I were using were the same as GE tubes I had about 50 sitting there. Many 5* white, 90% triple mica. They sounded fantastic and why are you judging something you had nothing to do with? Paul I am a member here and can contribute to any thread I like. I am speaking from my experience.
As I said there have been many threads here about both mics and in none of those discussions (including many sound clips) has anyone described the stock H251 as flat and boxy
Maybe they switched to TAD. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 11, 2024 15:47:14 GMT -6
Well the ones I were using were the same as GE tubes I had about 50 sitting there. Many 5* white, 90% triple mica. They sounded fantastic and why are you judging something you had nothing to do with? Paul I am a member here and can contribute to any thread I like. I am speaking from my experience.
As I said there have been many threads here about both mics and in none of those discussions (including many sound clips) has anyone described the stock H251 as flat and boxy
I meant the process of judging a tube choice when you weren’t present. |
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 11, 2024 16:10:56 GMT -6
Further on in that same thread you say"So the deal is that the Heiserman’s sibling got a smoother sound today when we matched it, as the Tube is not as gritty in the mids" meaning possibly you could have found a tube that complimented it more. I am of the same mind as dr.bill. If we are going to have any chance of really judging the mics they should both be stock.
Changing anything about them before you compare them muddies the waters.
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 11, 2024 19:17:23 GMT -6
Looking forward to checking it out.
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Post by drbill on Aug 11, 2024 21:14:24 GMT -6
FYI - for those who care - my Heiserman 251 has a TAD12AY7/6072A HIGHGRADE tube in it. It's Stock, and I love it just as it is. Not sure if I would like it more or less with a different tube or not - as it's unlikely I will change it out unless it becomes problematic. It's lovely as is. I don't have boxes of 6072's like Paul.  Personally, I would not describe it as flat or boxy, but I do not have a ton of 251 experience. As a matter of fact, I can't remember ever seeing one in LA during my tenure there. C12's sure - and I'd love a pair for drum overs. But very few 251's out on the west coast from my experience. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 11, 2024 21:31:46 GMT -6
I still have that flat/boxy Oktava 219. In a contest for the ugliest mics... It was a close shave.   |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 11, 2024 21:38:39 GMT -6
On that GS shootout, A. sounds more like a 251 should to my ears, the high end on B is a little muted and reminds me of every sample of the beeznees capsules in this thread from the waaaayback machine, anyone know which mic was which over there? (Like Bill, i've only ever spent one day in the studio with terrence trent darby in 1992 or so, he had his own 251 and i never got to hear anyone else through it including myself, that said Terrence would sound good through a mic clipped turd💩) realgearonline.com/thread/2859/winecamp-mic-pre-shootout |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 11, 2024 21:41:37 GMT -6
I still have that flat/boxy Oktava 219. In a contest for the ugliest mics... It was a close shave. hey, take a picture and post it on the mic porn thread lol I actually have a pretty heavily modded MK319 with the original capsule and tranny and damn it sounds really good, it's got a sepia like vibe to it that reminds me of Zep records |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 11, 2024 22:47:18 GMT -6
Gee_I_suppose I could figure that out tomorrow. My 319 is Brad Pitt in looks comparison/319 is nice to bring out Raspy vocals. Cool "Character" mics... Uh oh. Better "get back" on the (most complex capsuled) 251 Train. Chris |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 12, 2024 0:00:30 GMT -6
Further on in that same thread you say"So the deal is that the Heiserman’s sibling got a smoother sound today when we matched it, as the Tube is not as gritty in the mids" meaning possibly you could have found a tube that complimented it more. I am of the same mind as dr.bill. If we are going to have any chance of really judging the nmics they should both be stock.
a Changing anything about them before you compare them muddies the waters.
Marginally, it still had the Wet tantalum vibe and a T/14. mics has his own designed xformer and output cap. That is what made the difference not a tube you didn’t hear. I wanted to take on the huge task of tube rolling for a week or two and the slightly smoother one was also an RCA. Funny that. I happily have 2 pairs I could use for almost any source IMO. I like the character of both, like Hunter’s attitude in the thread. I was amazed at the acoustic purists horrified reaction. Anyway people always find a way to bitch AFTER a shootout out. The truth is Ben is plugging an amazing gap in the market. Although with all the competition I see the Flea for a lot less than when it was launched. Which is good for U.K. and Europe. Competition is good for the unpaid producer. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 12, 2024 3:59:18 GMT -6
They both have a beautiful sound, and I completely understand why someone might chose one over the other. I imagine A would have a broader range of sources it would work on. B sounds done. I have to get in front of a good 251 at some point.
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