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Post by smashlord on Jul 28, 2024 10:08:30 GMT -6
How often is everyone replacing their 57s?
Through some discounts and points at one of the big stores, I had the option of picking up a pair for $35 each, so I figured what the hell. I put one of the fresh ones up in front of a guitar cab and it was like "WHOA!". It sounded full to the point that I honestly muted the R-121 I had next to it.
I then mentioned it to some friends, both who have multiple platinum credits to their names, and they were like "Um, yeah dude, I buy a bunch at the start of every record. They are toast after two weeks of being in front of a snare and cabs."
I wonder if a lot of the hate some people like to give this ubiquitous mic stems from the ones in question being worn out from years (or even just weeks, apparently) of use and abuse. I've certainly noticed some sounding off compared to others in the past, but not quite in the way of going from one that's been in use for 20 years to one fresh out of the box. It's pretty drastic. The older ones sound like they have a HPF on them by comparison.
It also begs the question about other dynamic mics and their lifespans in front of high SPL sources.....
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Post by drumsound on Jul 28, 2024 10:33:41 GMT -6
This is an interesting thought and one I've never heard anyone bring up. Maybe my hatred stems from 57s I've used being beat to shit. I know my brother and I had new ones from when he got our 4-track in like 1990. But the ones I have from my first job were mostly like bought at the pawnshop my old boss worked for...
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Post by ragan on Jul 28, 2024 10:37:20 GMT -6
I’d love to hear a comparison clip. 57s have always pretty much sounded like 57s to me. And I love em.
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Post by notneeson on Jul 28, 2024 10:49:05 GMT -6
Wait, so now I’ve officially heard both “57s wear out after 2 weeks” but also “vintage Unidynes are way better and the only ones I will ever use.”
One other data point: I’ve also heard people say that new 57s sounds pretty inconsistent and they actively match them to different instruments based on their varied characteristics.
Could the 57 be the most discussed mic on the internet?
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Post by niklas1073 on Jul 28, 2024 11:00:23 GMT -6
I’ve replaced mine once. Kept one for the snare but the rest was replaced by mics i actually think sounds good🤣. Hate 57 on guitars for example.
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Post by copperx on Jul 28, 2024 11:05:25 GMT -6
I’ve replaced mine once. Kept one for the snare but the rest was replaced by mics i actually think sounds good🤣. Hate 57 on guitars for example. Ha! I hate, hate them on snare but I think they're ok on guitars. |
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Post by ragan on Jul 28, 2024 11:20:37 GMT -6
Do the people claiming the 57s “wear out” have a proposed mechanism for the wear? Like what part of the moving coil dynamic way of turning sound waves into electrical signal do they believe is degrading?
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Post by niklas1073 on Jul 28, 2024 13:16:38 GMT -6
I’ve replaced mine once. Kept one for the snare but the rest was replaced by mics i actually think sounds good🤣. Hate 57 on guitars for example. Ha! I hate, hate them on snare but I think they're ok on guitars. Yeah, im not a fan on them on snare either, but havnt got around to buy a replacement there yet 😄. Eyeballing the lauten snare for that. Then i am out of 57s 🤣 |
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Post by Dan on Jul 28, 2024 13:28:30 GMT -6
Do the people claiming the 57s “wear out” have a proposed mechanism for the wear? Like what part of the moving coil dynamic way of turning sound waves into electrical signal do they believe is degrading? diaphragm physically gets damaged by air or something by being too close to the grill or whacked or some cheapskate tried to replace the foam instead of sending it to shure and paying the 50 dollar repair fee where they give you a new one Sm58 with the ball off is sturdier and sounds the same but looks more hood. Just don’t whack it |
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Post by doubledog on Jul 28, 2024 13:46:48 GMT -6
I don't think my 57's sound much different than any other 57 I've heard. Wearing out after 2 weeks seems a little unlikely.
But.... there are a shitload of fake 57's out there. if you did not buy your mic from an actual Shure dealer, then there is a good chance it's fake. Bought it used? Or on Ebay or Reverb? Probably fake. Got a really good deal (under MSRP), mostly likely fake. Even GC has fake mics in their used inventory. There are so many fake 57's, 58's and Beta 52as that it's just incredible. It's often difficult to even tell them apart from the real ones (a fake Beta 52a I had did not have the CE mark label on it and the logo was a little skewed compared to a real one. It did sound different too, but was close). The only way to be sure is to get from a reputable dealer - and this is exactly what Shure told me when I reported the fakes I found online. They did not even care - or probably they know it's so out of control they can't undo it.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jul 28, 2024 14:10:16 GMT -6
Do the people claiming the 57s “wear out” have a proposed mechanism for the wear? Like what part of the moving coil dynamic way of turning sound waves into electrical signal do they believe is degrading? 57’s don’t wear out, they get abused and destroyed but it’s not a matter of wear. The story according to those who should know, when Shure moved production to Mexico all of the tooling was replaced, but rather than basing the new tooling on the original drawings they used the slightly worn tooling as the basis for the new Tooling. The early Unidynes are a definite improvement and if you ever want to hear the best version Try a 548, but those a D19 money these days, also one of the ugliest mics ever. |
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Post by copperx on Jul 28, 2024 14:49:01 GMT -6
Ha! I hate, hate them on snare but I think they're ok on guitars. Yeah, im not a fan on them on snare either, but havnt got around to buy a replacement there yet 😄. Eyeballing the lauten snare for that. Then i am out of 57s 🤣 Oktava 012! |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 28, 2024 19:38:39 GMT -6
I’ve replaced mine once. Kept one for the snare but the rest was replaced by mics i actually think sounds good🤣. Hate 57 on guitars for example. I’ve replaced mine once. Kept one for the snare but the rest was replaced by mics i actually think sounds good🤣. Hate 57 on guitars for example. Ha! I hate, hate them on snare but I think they're ok on guitars. I'm the combination of you two, I hate them on guitars AND snare.  Ha! I hate, hate them on snare but I think they're ok on guitars. Yeah, im not a fan on them on snare either, but havnt got around to buy a replacement there yet 😄. Eyeballing the lauten snare for that. Then i am out of 57s 🤣 Those look interesting. Yeah, im not a fan on them on snare either, but havnt got around to buy a replacement there yet 😄. Eyeballing the lauten snare for that. Then i am out of 57s 🤣 Oktava 012! I've used an 012 a few times recently and liked it. BUT, I've got an old EV n/d408 on snare right now that's making me quite happy. |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 28, 2024 20:02:52 GMT -6
Do the people claiming the 57s “wear out” have a proposed mechanism for the wear? Like what part of the moving coil dynamic way of turning sound waves into electrical signal do they believe is degrading? Good old mechanical wear and tear. Instrument speakers eventually show wear, MDR7506’s get weaker and softer sounding with age. It’s funny to think about the big $$$$$ vintage hifi heads pay for 80+ year old speakers. |
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Post by keymod on Jul 29, 2024 6:43:35 GMT -6
Has anyone tried a 57 with the Signal Arts mod? I had Chad do one for me on an old, beat up 57 that I found at a tag sale. I haven't really used it on anything yet....
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Post by svart on Jul 29, 2024 6:47:31 GMT -6
Do the people claiming the 57s “wear out” have a proposed mechanism for the wear? Like what part of the moving coil dynamic way of turning sound waves into electrical signal do they believe is degrading? My guess is the stiffness of the diaphragm, much like how a speaker "breaks in". |
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Post by svart on Jul 29, 2024 6:48:48 GMT -6
This has got to be one of the weirdest things I've heard in pro audio in a while. I've NEVER heard this before. 100% of the time I've heard folks saying they wanted the OLD mics.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 29, 2024 8:17:00 GMT -6
The perceived “magic” of a lot of ancient electronics is in the elevated series resistance of worn out capacitors….which never sounded that way new, and don’t sound that way restored….as evidenced by the occasional unhappy repair customer who discovers they liked the sound of their half broken old thing more than the sound of it working correctly. Totally fine to like a thing as-is, ignoring what it may mean about remaining lifespan.
I've owned one 57 for 30 years. It lives on snare drum. They sound like snare drums. Occasionally I try something else, usually not.
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Post by robo on Jul 29, 2024 8:31:01 GMT -6
How often is everyone replacing their 57s? Through some discounts and points at one of the big stores, I had the option of picking up a pair for $35 each, so I figured what the hell. I put one of the fresh ones up in front of a guitar cab and it was like "WHOA!". It sounded full to the point that I honestly muted the R-121 I had next to it. I then mentioned it to some friends, both who have multiple platinum credits to their names, and they were like "Um, yeah dude, I buy a bunch at the start of every record. They are toast after two weeks of being in front of a snare and cabs." I wonder if a lot of the hate some people like to give this ubiquitous mic stems from the ones in question being worn out from years (or even just weeks, apparently) of use and abuse. I've certainly noticed some sounding off compared to others in the past, but not quite in the way of going from one that's been in use for 20 years to one fresh out of the box. It's pretty drastic. The older ones sound like they have a HPF on them by comparison. It also begs the question about other dynamic mics and their lifespans in front of high SPL sources..... I wonder if you got some fake 57’s and you just like them better. I’m just not buying that there is a noticeable difference in a slightly used/brand new 57. If there were it would be easy enough to demonstrate. |
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Post by ninworks on Jul 29, 2024 8:36:20 GMT -6
Given the inexpensive nature of 57s isn't it possible, or even likely, that the QC on them is not very stringent and that they may sound different right off the assembly line? If they sell for $100 retail then their cost for manufacturing has to be in the $10 to $25 range. I can't imagine them putting a whole lot of effort into something that cheap. I have and have had many many 57s from decades ago that have been both new and through the ringer and I have never really been able to hear any noticeable difference in the sound of them unless they stopped working altogether. That's when the become a door-stop wedge.
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Post by Dan on Jul 29, 2024 8:50:06 GMT -6
The perceived “magic” of a lot of ancient electronics is in the elevated series resistance of worn out capacitors….which never sounded that way new, and don’t sound that way restored….as evidenced by the occasional unhappy repair customer who discovers they liked the sound of their half broken old thing more than the sound of it working correctly. Totally fine to like a thing as-is, ignoring what it may mean about remaining lifespan. Or they're wondering why old records didn't sound like distorted pos like modern productions despite some audible overloads Given the inexpensive nature of 57s isn't it possible, or even likely, that the QC on them is not very stringent and that they may sound different right off the assembly line? If they sell for $100 retail then their cost for manufacturing has to be in the $10 to $25 range. I can't imagine them putting a whole lot of effort into something that cheap. I have and have had many many 57s from decades ago that have been both new and through the ringer and I have never really been able to hear any noticeable difference in the sound of them unless they stopped working altogether. That's when the become a door-stop wedge. "Repair" cost is 50 bucks and Shure just sends you a new one when you send in the broken one. Fixing it yourself isn't worth the time or effort. When they're shot or the foam is destroyed, the sound is obvious vs a new one. You can get a few mics that are pretty much a cleaned up SM57 for around the same cost or a little more, some of them sturdier, some of them more fragile (M201 UGH) so worrying about mods, old ones being 1% better yeah until they get whacked or the grill part gets pushed in and breaks the mic. There are unattached parts just sitting there atop the diaphragm in every SM57 but they do not randomly die like the M201. And Beyer's QC is worse than Shures if you ever bother to compare their condensers to the very good and consistent KSM line or hear different units of the same headphone sound radically different and it can be the drivers or the housing. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 29, 2024 9:50:53 GMT -6
I've never replaced my 57's or Unidynes.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 29, 2024 10:46:15 GMT -6
The perceived “magic” of a lot of ancient electronics is in the elevated series resistance of worn out capacitors….which never sounded that way new, and don’t sound that way restored….as evidenced by the occasional unhappy repair customer who discovers they liked the sound of their half broken old thing more than the sound of it working correctly. Totally fine to like a thing as-is, ignoring what it may mean about remaining lifespan. Or they're wondering why old records didn't sound like distorted pos like modern productions despite some audible overloads Given the inexpensive nature of 57s isn't it possible, or even likely, that the QC on them is not very stringent and that they may sound different right off the assembly line? If they sell for $100 retail then their cost for manufacturing has to be in the $10 to $25 range. I can't imagine them putting a whole lot of effort into something that cheap. I have and have had many many 57s from decades ago that have been both new and through the ringer and I have never really been able to hear any noticeable difference in the sound of them unless they stopped working altogether. That's when the become a door-stop wedge. "Repair" cost is 50 bucks and Shure just sends you a new one when you send in the broken one. Fixing it yourself isn't worth the time or effort. When they're shot or the foam is destroyed, the sound is obvious vs a new one. You can get a few mics that are pretty much a cleaned up SM57 for around the same cost or a little more, some of them sturdier, some of them more fragile (M201 UGH) so worrying about mods, old ones being 1% better yeah until they get whacked or the grill part gets pushed in and breaks the mic. There are unattached parts just sitting there atop the diaphragm in every SM57 but they do not randomly die like the M201. And Beyer's QC is worse than Shures if you ever bother to compare their condensers to the very good and consistent KSM line or hear different units of the same headphone sound radically different and it can be the drivers or the housing. The 57 and 58 are funny in that for the past 35 years Shure’s engineers have tried to replace them at least 3 time’s but the sales guys all know, a new better Shure only sells more 57’s and 58’s! One of the biggest changes was post Mexico, after Shure bought the company that was making such good inexpensive copies that they became the Beta Green BG series they did a redesign of the cartridge because the Chinese had figured out a more efficient design to manufacture that was pretty much indistinguishable from the then currrent cartridge. That damn grill is useless, they did a much better job on both the beta versions, but it’s cheap & since it offers very little protection, thus lots of repeat buisness. Some of the clones nail everything but the capsule, I know a couple of regional sound companies that buy fake 57’s for all the parts but the transformer and capsule, because they are that cheap. Personally I would rather Audix/ Beyer/ EV but the 57/58 are must haves for live rock & roll. |
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Post by smashlord on Jul 29, 2024 10:54:12 GMT -6
How often is everyone replacing their 57s? Through some discounts and points at one of the big stores, I had the option of picking up a pair for $35 each, so I figured what the hell. I put one of the fresh ones up in front of a guitar cab and it was like "WHOA!". It sounded full to the point that I honestly muted the R-121 I had next to it. I then mentioned it to some friends, both who have multiple platinum credits to their names, and they were like "Um, yeah dude, I buy a bunch at the start of every record. They are toast after two weeks of being in front of a snare and cabs." I wonder if a lot of the hate some people like to give this ubiquitous mic stems from the ones in question being worn out from years (or even just weeks, apparently) of use and abuse. I've certainly noticed some sounding off compared to others in the past, but not quite in the way of going from one that's been in use for 20 years to one fresh out of the box. It's pretty drastic. The older ones sound like they have a HPF on them by comparison. It also begs the question about other dynamic mics and their lifespans in front of high SPL sources..... I wonder if you got some fake 57’s and you just like them better. I’m just not buying that there is a noticeable difference in a slightly used/brand new 57. If there were it would be easy enough to demonstrate. I always bought mine new, from GC. I can't speak to the source of the ones at various studios I've worked out of, though. FWIW, one of the friends I mentioned said it was originally Dan Korneff that hipped him to getting a set at the start of a record due to them "being toast" after two weeks on a snare. Dan is certainly someone that knows a bit about making records and building gear, so might not be too crazy! |
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Post by doubledog on Jul 29, 2024 15:09:18 GMT -6
just as proof that mechanical parts do wear out (especially those with cheap foam) -- my DIY subkick mic that I've had for at least 10 years. Luckily found some replacement speakers that sound about the same.  |
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