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Post by Dan on Jul 16, 2024 11:45:13 GMT -6
seems like we’re mostly in agreement but I do find it quite funny that diode bridge compressors, often noisy, tend to apply a very stupid sounding envelope to drums yet are worshipped by people on the internet for being expensive yet cheap, sometimes noisy compressors that apply an equally stupid envelope to drums are reviled. I hear you, Dan. I think that’s why I’ve never pulled the trigger on a 33609. They do that “ugly” thing. yeah and there’s also analog productions or hybrid now that push the gear way too far and it’s just muddy and gross and worse than the plastic demos or rehearsals and live shows. You know it’s bad when you get a reference, it’s dirtier than 60s stuff with tons of dub downs, go to the studio webpage, and you realize they probably pushed everything and then used a limiter on top of that. Like Most modern records, the production gets in the way even worse. Earlier records, the gear limits who realistic it could be. I’m sure if Led Zeppelin could get low noise gear on II and iii they would’ve just like I’m sure if the Beatles could’ve gotten more than 4 tracks early on, they would’ve. I’m often fighting to get over 1176ed vocals and anything else used on the way in, metallicized drums from resonant, 1176 clones or distressors, stupid mics, and silly pushed “color” Pres. It’s clear these amps are holding back the players with their poor midrange that suppresses notes and nasty or dull high ends. I don’t know what people are working on but anyone with a job can get more stuff to crap up their recordings now than was in an outboard racks. I’d rather have something cleaned up or something incredibly nasty like that Drawmer 1968 or a Fatso if they could be perfectly stereo matched. Or decapitator or some of the crazy stuff itb. I’m loving the neold wunderlich right now. |
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Post by bossanova on Jul 16, 2024 15:27:49 GMT -6
This reminds me of Bob's accumulated wisdom over the years that he shared at GS and here regarding how many of what are now considered to be prized pieces of gear (the Fairchilds, the consoles and transformers, the battle with tape and SNR in general) would have and sometimes were bypassed altogether if they had the means and opportunity to do so, and how their effects were usually an annoying means to an end rather than something inherently desirable.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 17, 2024 6:55:49 GMT -6
Gear worship is really crazy. It's really all about the musicians' touch and timing. How the gear interacts with that is important.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 17, 2024 8:20:57 GMT -6
THEN your Converters.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 17, 2024 10:32:43 GMT -6
Converters aren't that big of a deal provided you don't hit them too hard.
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Post by Dan on Jul 17, 2024 10:49:37 GMT -6
Converters aren't that big of a deal provided you don't hit them too hard. unless you’re using garbage with phase shifted anti alias filters or junk prosumer circuitry, eg jrc and njm opamps and knockoff caps. I won’t name anything to not provoke a flame war. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 17, 2024 11:25:09 GMT -6
You just need to hit the garbage converters at least 10 db. lower.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 18, 2024 8:34:23 GMT -6
Good thing my USB Treasure Trove includes the Mighty... UA Volt 1, Scarlett 3rd Gen Solo, Mackie Blackjack*. And who can forget the original Audiobox? With 45 Screaming Horses of dB Gain!  Chris *Oddly enough the Blackjack has Cirrus Logic converters! Sorry Dan and Plush it's currently not for sale. But would consider Fairchild trade. Plus $100 CASH.  |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 18, 2024 8:35:39 GMT -6
You just need to hit the garbage converters at least 10 db. lower. Yikes! Guess it's 24 Bit from now on. Bye bye Sweet 16. Thanks Bob! Chris |
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Post by Dan on Jul 18, 2024 9:12:53 GMT -6
You just need to hit the garbage converters at least 10 db. lower. Depends if it has phase shift or top end distortion or not. Some like MOTU you can hit up to -1 dbfs true peak. Some of the seemingly garbage ones line the Focusrite Claret and Red aren’t that bad at all (the ad is better than motu) except for the polyphase filters so the higher the sample rate, the less screwed up your top end is and they can sound pretty good at higher sample rates even if they aren’t the most detailed things. Others like Behringer and Presonus use piss poor circuitry, and if you don’t hit most Behringer units at least somewhat hot but don’t dare overdrive them, you’ll run into crazy issues like audible cross talk. Tascams were better built than these. Other brands use cleaned up versions of Behringer level circuit like the RME Firefaces, cheaper Ferrofish and SPL. They clean up but it can never be clean in the top end and their cheaper stuff is priced accordingly under the big boys and above the defective disposable boxes which the purple site doesn’t want to admit. |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 18, 2024 13:09:25 GMT -6
Grasshopper asks how good are the Cirrus Logic converters? I "think" I hear a little difference It's limited to 24/48 BTW. And of course it has those "Boutique" Onyx Pre's. Chris |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 18, 2024 13:28:00 GMT -6
Converters aren't that big of a deal provided you don't hit them too hard. I have a Crane Song Avocet (and HEDD 192) and this allows me to hear Dave Hill's converters and then the various converters of other units I own. The Avocet has proper has a proper off-set gain trim system so I can perfectly level match everything. Listening to stereo files, I have been greatly surprised just how different converters do sound in terms of resolving stereo spacial information, resolution and bandwidth evenness. Needless to say, to my ears Dave Hill's converters come out as sounding sonically superior. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 18, 2024 13:32:48 GMT -6
Grasshopper asks how good are the Cirrus Logic converters? I "think" I hear a little difference It's limited to 24/48 BTW. And of course it has those "Boutique" Onyx Pre's. Chris The converter IC is not a huge part of the overall sound except for maybe built in analog parts and if the onboard filters have inadequate band rejection. |
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