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Post by bluesholyman on Jun 10, 2024 5:52:47 GMT -6
What is the least expensive audio interface that you would find acceptable to use. I currently have a PT Carbon but my songwriting seems to be more fluid on Logic, so I am considering selling the Carbon and just getting something less expensive, but that would still translate things well. Spending as little as possible, but still sounding good is the key as i would redirect the balance of funds elsewhere. I can do what I do fully in the box but ability to record guitar/bass direct is always helpful. Monitors are Focal Shape Twins.
Appreciate your input.
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Post by Dan on Jun 10, 2024 6:12:34 GMT -6
How many channels of i/o do you need? USB or thunderbolt? Recording guitar direct? Are you on Mac or Windows? The very cheap interfaces all have major drawbacks. Maybe a Duet 3 is the cheapest new one worth considering but again it’s not meant for amp sims and looks like a joke next to the old Elements and Ensembles. Babyface pro for amp sims on windows or find a used element 88 on Mac. You can get the cut down elements for dirt cheap. The babyface cannot compete sound wise with them. reverb.com/item/81833288-apogee-element-88-thunderbolt-audio-interface-2010s-black For around 1100-1300 you can get the RME Babyface Pro FS, AMS Neve 88m, and Apogee Symphony Desktop. The RME is compromised soundwise for low latency performance so it is ideal for DI guitars and bass through amp sims especially on windows at 44.1 or 48 kHz on random not for audio computers. The Apogee Symphony Desktop sounds a great deal better but isn’t set up for low round trip latency through the daw at single sample rates. A thunderbolt interface will be faster but the cheaper ones have all been discontinued. Lynx and DAD have lower latency than UAD. UAD only has older sims on the console that aren’t as good as the later ones. The only Apogee thunderbolt interface now is the full Symphony II. And they’re not cheap |
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Post by svart on Jun 10, 2024 6:34:42 GMT -6
The new Motu 828 probably. I have the older one, the 828ES and I love it.
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Post by bluesholyman on Jun 10, 2024 7:04:37 GMT -6
How many channels of i/o do you need? USB or thunderbolt? Recording guitar direct? Are you on Mac or Windows? The very cheap interfaces all have major drawbacks. ah yes, relevant questions. I/O - I can probably live with a minimum of 2 mic pre / inputs, for recording acoustic. Silicon Mac with USB-C / Thunderbolt. Recording guitar could be either direct (would like to be able to) or though a multi-effect unit - a HeadRush Gigboard in this case, same for Bass. I do want to avoid the drawbacks of "cheap" interfaces. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 10, 2024 7:13:08 GMT -6
How many channels of i/o do you need? USB or thunderbolt? Recording guitar direct? Are you on Mac or Windows? The very cheap interfaces all have major drawbacks. ah yes, relevant questions. I/O - I can probably live with a minimum of 2 mic pre / inputs, for recording acoustic. Silicon Mac with USB-C / Thunderbolt. Recording guitar could be either direct (would like to be able to) or though a multi-effect unit - a HeadRush Gigboard in this case, same for Bass. I do want to avoid the drawbacks of "cheap" interfaces. Used apogee elements are amazing deals |
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nas
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Post by nas on Jun 10, 2024 7:27:22 GMT -6
MOTU, Focusrite, Apogee, UA all have very solid offerings. Conversion these days is good, even with the lower budget/prosumer. All these companies offer excellent sound quality. I think a consideration would be driver stability and efficiency... something that isn't buggy. I've had very good experiences with MOTU and RME.
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Post by Dan on Jun 10, 2024 7:34:46 GMT -6
MOTU, Focusrite, Apogee, UA all have very solid offerings. Conversion these days is good, even with the lower budget/prosumer. All these companies offer excellent sound quality. I think a consideration would be driver stability and efficiency... something that isn't buggy. I've had very good experiences with MOTU and RME. the prosumer stuff like focusrite, motu, and rme honestly is the same as before but with newer chips. the distortion and unreliability (RME is reliable but the firefaces sound as bad as ever) is all still there, they just have a lower noise floor, which was always beneath that of real world recordings with any sort of proper gainstaging, from newer converter ics. |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 10, 2024 8:29:14 GMT -6
Just saw Mary Spender's YT on selling cassettes. Hey it's on an upswing!  * Looks like my USB Prosumer Interfaces, become lean/mean Cassette Make-in' machines.  LOL! *Thanks Steven L. Morgan, for posting this elsewhere. Very interesting Video. What's funny is that sometimes I imagine my Mackie Blackjack sounds a bit better. With it's Cirrus Logic converters. Too bad on their PC Driver history. Chris P.S. How do you guys like Audient? BTW in fairness to Steven, he does mention cassette can be a conceptual basis, of a new analog format. |
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Post by drumsound on Jun 10, 2024 9:29:16 GMT -6
I've used a couple of the older Steinberg boxes for recording a trio of flute, cello and piano. I really liked the results. The recordings have good spread, and wide frequency response. Newer ones also have Ruper Never Designs transformers, but I haven't heard those.
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Post by FM77 on Jun 10, 2024 10:38:04 GMT -6
All these poor studios and mastering houses hobbling along on their RME gear  . The FireFace series is exceptional and robust.
For Blues Holy Man... the RME Fireface UCX II is an great choice based on your needs. And TotalMix is a game changer once you learn it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2024 10:45:13 GMT -6
I keep finding myself hovering over used examples of that little SSL interface. Now in my case it would be used with the IPad & MBHO measurement mic.
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Post by ironinthepath on Jun 10, 2024 10:57:24 GMT -6
If my budget for the interface was limited to a few $100 dollars, my pick would be MOTU M2, M4, or M6, depending on needed connectivity.
During the season of lockdowns my main recording setup was unreachable in another state, so I ended up buying first a Focusrite 2i2, which was fine but I was frustrated when trying external pres that I couldn’t suitably bypass the internal pre’s sonic signature. Next bought a Motu M4, had an ISA220 as my main channel, some Warm Audio pres (all used). Ended up quite happy with the result, considering. Had three mics: SM57, SM81, TLM102….
Ok, rambling now: but Motu units have served me well for bang vs. buck.
-Chris
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2024 11:00:31 GMT -6
How many channels of i/o do you need? USB or thunderbolt? Recording guitar direct? Are you on Mac or Windows? The very cheap interfaces all have major drawbacks. ah yes, relevant questions. I/O - I can probably live with a minimum of 2 mic pre / inputs, for recording acoustic. Silicon Mac with USB-C / Thunderbolt. Recording guitar could be either direct (would like to be able to) or though a multi-effect unit - a HeadRush Gigboard in this case, same for Bass. I do want to avoid the drawbacks of "cheap" interfaces. The Black Lion 6x6 sounds fantastic in my opinion. |
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Post by FM77 on Jun 10, 2024 11:16:12 GMT -6
All these poor studios and mastering houses hobbling along on their RME gear . The FireFace series is exceptional and robust.
For Blues Holy Man... the RME Fireface UCX II is an great choice based on your needs. And TotalMix is a game changer once you learn it.
Unless they have the ADI-2 Pro or DAC, they are sending the signal through a cleaned up version of Behringer and other cheaped out circuits. TotalMix truncates to 24-bit without dither. It is not floating point or dithered like better interface mixers so using it anything beyond monitor mixes will print audible artifacts.
The Babyface is a good buy but the used Apogee Elements are cheaper, better, and more featured unless the interface needs to be bus powered or operate on Windows.
LOL, well you already know I know this to be nonsense, so I'll leave it there. And the TotalMix dither/truncation discussion gets repeated as a naysayer support every few years. It is played out and has been addressed by Matthias and RME multiple times. You can contact Matthias directly.
I agree the BabyFace is a good option, but the FireFace UCXII is a much better choice IME>
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Post by Dan on Jun 10, 2024 11:17:59 GMT -6
Unless they have the ADI-2 Pro or DAC, they are sending the signal through a cleaned up version of Behringer and other cheaped out circuits. TotalMix truncates to 24-bit without dither. It is not floating point or dithered like better interface mixers so using it anything beyond monitor mixes will print audible artifacts.
The Babyface is a good buy but the used Apogee Elements are cheaper, better, and more featured unless the interface needs to be bus powered or operate on Windows.
LOL, well you already know I know this to be nonsense, so I'll leave it there. And the TotalMix dither/truncation discussion gets repeated as a naysayer support every few years. It is played out and has been addressed by Matthias and RME multiple times. You can contact Matthias directly.
I agree the BabyFace is a good option, but the FireFace UCXII is a much better choice IME>
rme does not care to minimize distortion in most of their products They choose to emphasize latency, features, and come in at a competitive price point and do offer products that are cleaner but much more expensive like the adi-2 pro and micstasy but those are hard sells to bargain hunters. Apogee symphony desktop ate into the adi-2 pro’s market which ate into the lynx Hilo’s market |
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Post by Dan on Jun 10, 2024 11:37:58 GMT -6
And yeah the ucx is more expandable and a better buy for 1500 or so but the babyface pro is bus powered, portable, and a solid brick of aluminum. It’s just not expandable other than Adat and the layout fully hooked up is crazy and it sounds noticeably better with the floor wart on many computers.
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Post by bluesholyman on Jun 10, 2024 12:09:21 GMT -6
All these poor studios and mastering houses hobbling along on their RME gear . The FireFace series is exceptional and robust.
For Blues Holy Man... the RME Fireface UCX II is an great choice based on your needs. And TotalMix is a game changer once you learn it.
That might be more than I'd care to spend. I suppose affordable is relative but definitely below the $1K mark and probably lower if I can do that. I keep finding myself hovering over used examples of that little SSL interface. Now in my case it would be used with the IPad & MBHO measurement mic. I had one of these for my "day job" computer and when playing around with it, maxing the gain on the input created some insane amount of noise. Maybe it was that unit, maybe its all the units, but I returned it and went with something else in that instance. My scenario du jour is about my main box and its interface. ah yes, relevant questions. I/O - I can probably live with a minimum of 2 mic pre / inputs, for recording acoustic. Silicon Mac with USB-C / Thunderbolt. Recording guitar could be either direct (would like to be able to) or though a multi-effect unit - a HeadRush Gigboard in this case, same for Bass. I do want to avoid the drawbacks of "cheap" interfaces. The Black Lion 6x6 sounds fantastic in my opinion. Now that looks insanely good, for all the bells/whistles it gives at that price point. Very affordable as well. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2024 12:16:47 GMT -6
All these poor studios and mastering houses hobbling along on their RME gear . The FireFace series is exceptional and robust.
For Blues Holy Man... the RME Fireface UCX II is an great choice based on your needs. And TotalMix is a game changer once you learn it.
That might be more than I'd care to spend. I suppose affordable is relative but definitely below the $1K mark and probably lower if I can do that. I keep finding myself hovering over used examples of that little SSL interface. Now in my case it would be used with the IPad & MBHO measurement mic. I had one of these for my "day job" computer and when playing around with it, maxing the gain on the input created some insane amount of noise. Maybe it was that unit, maybe its all the units, but I returned it and went with something else in that instance. My scenario du jour is about my main box and its interface. The Black Lion 6x6 sounds fantastic in my opinion. Now that looks insanely good, for all the bells/whistles it gives at that price point. Very affordable as well. There’s a 2x2 too I think. Make sure the io is what you need because it’s a little left footed. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2024 12:19:42 GMT -6
LOL, well you already know I know this to be nonsense, so I'll leave it there. And the TotalMix dither/truncation discussion gets repeated as a naysayer support every few years. It is played out and has been addressed by Matthias and RME multiple times. You can contact Matthias directly.
I agree the BabyFace is a good option, but the FireFace UCXII is a much better choice IME>
rme does not care to minimize distortion in most of their products They choose to emphasize latency, features, and come in at a competitive price point and do offer products that are cleaner but much more expensive like the adi-2 pro and micstasy but those are hard sells to bargain hunters. Apogee symphony desktop ate into the adi-2 pro’s market which ate into the lynx Hilo’s market OK, I consider Dan a friend and I respect Dan’s Uhber Geekdom ( highest compliment) few have dug into the weeds as much as Dan has when it comes to digital but, and my RADAR will probably crash for me saying this but honestly today even the cheapest Behringer interface isn’t going to keep you from making music. The key here is this “ Best” is open ended, is it Sonics ? Support? Stability? RME is far from perfect but they are found all around the world in some pretty well respected prestigious situations ( yeah the guy you see on the RME site talking about RME & Blueman Group is an old high school friend so slight conflict but honestly you will find a friend or former client on just about every respected interface vendors sight so minimal conflict). I do still love their PCIE cards, but RME and Lynx are about all that’s left, about the only one who has better drivers is Metric Halo, but that’s Mac only.. I do hate total Mix, I really, really wish at the very least they would print a comprehensive manual that covers it but I went from PT TDM to RME / logic and hated having to use 2 applications. My advice, don’t buy thinking about what you need today, think long term growth. The 2 reasons you see so many small interfaces used are 1. People realize they are not going to be the next Billy Elish. 2. They realize they need more I/O. I know Dan is all about the Sonics and yes they are important, but as someone who had the problematic Audient ( hey I love my DDA console) drivers and stability are as if not more more important. About 6 years ago I saved an Otari Status console $15k when new new with recall VCA automation and onboard dynamics from the dumpster, it sits in storage because a Behringer interface blew it away. |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jun 10, 2024 12:28:20 GMT -6
MOTU M4 ($269) and M6 ($400) are pretty impressive for cheap and mobile with good conversion.
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Post by christopher on Jun 10, 2024 12:40:01 GMT -6
Heritage also has new 2 channel things. It would be neat to try them.
Stay away from Focusrite. I got an 18i20, didn’t really use it until about 8 months later. Too late to return, so I thought about selling it. I ran it through its paces to discover it didn’t work past a few channels. Found out all of them were pieces of garbage, and customer service gave me the hide and seek run around for months. Obviously a tactic they did with everyone. It was only $400-$500 lesson. So now I tell people to avoid them, every chance I get.
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Post by copperx on Jun 10, 2024 12:55:50 GMT -6
MOTU M4 ($269) and M6 ($400) are pretty impressive for cheap and mobile with good conversion.
This right here. Look no further if you can't afford the rack MOTUs.
I have a MOTU M4 that I still use even after getting the 828es. You can't go wrong with them.
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Post by FM77 on Jun 10, 2024 12:56:50 GMT -6
It is important to get over spec sheet data and get into practical experience with the gear in question.
As Eric said, none of this will be the hindering factor in our production.
RME is not a conglomerate. It is a small company, and very experienced pro audio interface designers. You can talk with the owners. They appreciate and support long term customers.
If you want to know why the company has consistently designed ultra clean and stable interfaces with the distortion specifications they chose, just ask them.
It's been asked and answered before but Mathias isn't hiding behind a company name. Maybe you can invite him to this conversation?
Using the phrase 'prosumer', or comparing a company to Behringer to lump them into the lowest common denominator has very limited credibility and certainly limited value to the conversation.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2024 13:14:07 GMT -6
It is important to get over spec sheet data and get into practical experience with the gear in question. As Eric said, none of this will be the hindering factor in our production. RME is not a conglomerate. It is a small company, and very experienced pro audio interface designers. You can talk with the owners. They appreciate and support long term customers. If you want to know why the company has consistently designed ultra clean and stable interfaces with the distortion specifications they chose, just ask them. It's been asked and answered before but Mathias isn't hiding behind a company name. Maybe you can invite him to this conversation? Using the phrase 'prosumer', or comparing a company to Behringer to lump them into the lowest common denominator has very limited credibility and certainly limited value to the conversation. Part of the Behringer comparison is the fact that Behringer did a pretty good job building a RME with cheap components. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2024 13:16:58 GMT -6
Heritage also has new 2 channel things. It would be neat to try them. Stay away from Focusrite. I got an 18i20, didn’t really use it until about 8 months later. Too late to return, so I thought about selling it. I ran it through its paces to discover it didn’t work past a few channels. Found out all of them were pieces of garbage, and customer service gave me the hide and seek run around for months. Obviously a tactic they did with everyone. It was only $400-$500 lesson. So now I tell people to avoid them, every chance I get. The only problem I can for see with Heritage is drivers, as everyone who has entered the interface arena has learned the hard way they are all beholden to Chip manufacturers, OS and DAW developers. |
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