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Post by russellcreekps on May 24, 2024 19:03:26 GMT -6
I’m guilty of mixing vocals too loud often. But I do like loud drums too. I look at it this way, when you turn a radio mix way down to barely audible, what are the two things you can still hear clearly? Vocals and drums baby!
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Post by rowmat on May 24, 2024 19:19:09 GMT -6
According to a mastering engineer I know, during the COVID DIY home recording boom, 8 out of 10 mixes were improved by turning down the entire mix!
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Post by EmRR on May 24, 2024 19:20:11 GMT -6
This ^
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Post by drumsound on May 24, 2024 21:49:34 GMT -6
People bring up Back in Black a lot. I HUGE reason the drums can be that big is that there isn't a ton of shit for them to compete with. The reasons many mention the snare on that song is because of the guitar riff. There are MONSTROUS holes on 2 and 4 in the riff. In the 2 bar riff, the only time the snare and the guitar play together is on beat four of the second measure.
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Post by thehightenor on May 24, 2024 22:52:31 GMT -6
Take for example "Easy Lover" Phil Collins/Phil Bailey. Crank your monitors on that song and the drums are crazy loud and upfront - they sound very exciting and fantastic (in an 80's way of course) but the point stands. musically minimalist too, definitely designed around the drums and vocals. Great music = big drums, big bass, big vocals. All this chordal stuff is overrated, you don’t need much to paint in the harmonic picture. I joke but I’m semi serious too  |
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timix
Full Member
Posts: 33
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Post by timix on May 24, 2024 23:57:16 GMT -6
I feel it's an esthetic choice, song to song. Sure, Back in Black has loud drums but so does Fleetwood Mac at times. It's found in most decades starting in the 70s. Sometimes it really works, sometimes it's a crutch. If you mean Fleetwood Mac Rumours, the drums aren't "turned up" they sound loud because their are no other loud sounds in the band, and because of how he is playing and the sound of the his kit, the kick isn't unnaturally loud nor the kit itself, you can hear if everything in the mix clearly. When the drums are mixed loud everything else is pushed down, everything can't be loud, drum sound has a direct impact on guitar sounds. I mention those songs , not because of the music, but because they guitars sound great but they're also known to this day for their drum sound, which allow room for the guitars, modern drum sounds do not allow for that, there's no space or dynamics in the sound. My point is that its the actual created drum sound that impacts on how loud , or quiet, they can be, because there's no transients in drums today so they get lost when not loud. Of course this is all relevant to the artistic intent and the demographic that they are aiming at, but there's always artists and producers that will come along that don't follow the current concept of what's popular, often they end up being successful. |
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Post by christophert on May 25, 2024 3:35:33 GMT -6
According to a mastering engineer I know, during the COVID DIY home recording boom, 8 out of 10 mixes were improved by turning down the entire mix! Yeah - that's because they were not mix engineers |
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Post by bossanova on May 25, 2024 11:48:41 GMT -6
In my case, a lot of my sonic references for drums are 70s pop, 80s Yacht Rock, and going back to those, the drums are always back farther in the mix than I hear in my head. For this specific track I was working on, the target sound was an RVG era Blue Note record, and the drums in those are back wayyyyy further than they sound in my head 😊
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Post by chessparov on May 25, 2024 11:55:07 GMT -6
Of course, I find humour in all those cheesy 80's Power Ballads... When the Big Drums come right before the Money Notes! (Thump Thump Thump)... "I-Ye-I will always love yooooo ooh ooh!!" Chris |
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Post by guitfiddler on May 26, 2024 22:36:31 GMT -6
I say crank it up until you’re just in the red and that goes for certain converters too 🤟🏻
Raise your lighters!
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Post by Dan on May 27, 2024 9:05:04 GMT -6
People bring up Back in Black a lot. I HUGE reason the drums can be that big is that there isn't a ton of shit for them to compete with. The reasons many mention the snare on that song is because of the guitar riff. There are MONSTROUS holes on 2 and 4 in the riff. In the 2 bar riff, the only time the snare and the guitar play together is on beat four of the second measure. Yes and you cannot do that on some crazy jazz or metal album where there is no space and it will be mastered loud like Crytopsy or Emperor. Great performances where much of the kit is buried. Cynic had Focus remixed and yeah it sounds more organic and the clean and slow parts bigger and drums way more natural but it also sounds way too muddy compared to the 1993 Morrisound mix and the rhythm guitars that are often the main melody of the songs disappear at times in the remix and have too much resonance. Focus sounds like classic record and Refocus like a demo. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 27, 2024 19:37:38 GMT -6
To me, the issue before drums being too damn loud is actually the lack of a real drummer in the same room at the same time with the other players doing basic tracks. So many records replace drummer's tracks with samples. It's nearly impossible to get the feel just right line by line with a track done with EZ Drummer or Superior Drummer. Great drummers used to "mix" their drums when recording.
If you listen to many of the classic rock records of the sixties, you'll notice the drums are not so loud in the mix. They change dynamically to leave the perfect amount of room for the song to swing. So few drummers know when to use a slightly lighter touch these days.
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