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Post by Shadowk on Apr 15, 2024 17:12:55 GMT -6
Upvote for Opeth reference Yeah, I've typically lost all interest in most mainstream. I did a lot of work in the eastern market, plus I enjoy a game or two especially the soundtracks which has pushed me in different listening directions.. Not necessarily a thunderstorm of sonic quality but some damn interesting music and yes, I'm not just a solid metalhead. I even enjoy a bit of moonlight sonata on occasion or Tocata in D minor, then again I like club music, swing, death or black metal etc. I'm sort of genre augnostic..
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Post by drbill on Apr 15, 2024 17:26:48 GMT -6
Sums of experience and music I'd say, I was walking down the street and heard someone clattering on some bins which sparked an interesting idea. Not saying it was a good one but sometimes even a car indicator can spark something due to rhythm alone. Then for me mood is triggered usually by memory or situation which often sets the timbre.. This is outside the confines of professional writing though and in those regards I sympathise, yeah it sucks but even then what's the difference today? I'm honestly asking. We have an onslaught of material mathematically devised to hit the most amount of streams whilst tens if not hundreds of millions of tracks (maybe more) flounder within the void. So AI adds to the ever overflowing pile and what? Unless you're in the right circle or have a massive social media advertisement budget what's changed? As someone just writing songs and wanting to play live, nothing has changed for me. I'm an outsider looking in, the expectancy of anything successful dissolved when the internet went into full swing. The one benefit I have over AI is arms and legs, so playing live should still be a fun thing to do. Also it would be interesting if AI could deliver something like Opeth which is I guess popular within its niche but certainly different.
Arms and legs make for a much more compelling live show typically. Sure do. And they are working on that. . Just wait till they execute the hot babe model - then the final frontier (did you notice my nice alliteration? AI is KILLER at artistic alliterations) is lips moving. <<thumbsup>> Lest anyone doubt or have their head in the sand, music 20 years from now will bear virtually no resemblance to music 2024, and certainly not to music 1979. At the rate of progression, it might take only 10 years.... Glad I'm in the phasing out stage of my career as opposed to the ramping up stage. My sincerest best wishes for those of you just starting out.... |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 15, 2024 17:56:52 GMT -6
Yeah I don’t know…
I played a show last night at Brighton Music Hall in Boston. Bout 250 teens and college age kids singing every word of every song that has been released. Tons of fun, restored my faith in the younger generation. Group that opened for us were 3 super polite and hungry kids from Berk with amazing voices, 3 part harms, really cool songs, electric guitar player was super tasteful, balanced themselves really well.
I have a a generally good outlook for those who are making art. The cookie cutter stuff will be easily replaced by AI. The things that grab the listener and give them the feels will continue to evoke passion.
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Apr 15, 2024 18:08:05 GMT -6
This scares the shit out of me, but in terms of stock music I'm not sure what impact this is going to have on a market that's already been decimated once by Kevin McLeod. Songwriting gigs for big labels? That seems more dangerous. I asked suno to write a punk song about itself:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/arienne-audio/ghost-in-the-machine
Some interesting turns of phrase and ideas here. A few changes and a re-record to make this a viable song.
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Post by mythundreamt on Apr 15, 2024 18:09:49 GMT -6
Upvote for Opeth reference Yeah, I've typically lost all interest in most mainstream. I did a lot of work in the eastern market, plus I enjoy a game or two especially the soundtracks which has pushed me in different listening directions.. Not necessarily a thunderstorm of sonic quality but some damn interesting music and yes, I'm not just a solid metalhead. I even enjoy a bit of moonlight sonata on occasion or Tocata in D minor, then again I like club music, swing, death or black metal etc. I'm sort of genre augnostic..
Yeah me too: I am completely genre agnostic and instead I listen for clever (and even unexpected) ideas/licks/chord changes and well crafted non-generic tones. AI can’t quite do that yet …. but for sure will slowly get there (at which point it will be just another player in an already vast vast ocean of talent). |
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Apr 15, 2024 18:15:15 GMT -6
Upvote for Opeth reference Yeah, I've typically lost all interest in most mainstream. I did a lot of work in the eastern market, plus I enjoy a game or two especially the soundtracks which has pushed me in different listening directions.. Not necessarily a thunderstorm of sonic quality but some damn interesting music and yes, I'm not just a solid metalhead. I even enjoy a bit of moonlight sonata on occasion or Tocata in D minor, then again I like club music, swing, death or black metal etc. I'm sort of genre augnostic..
It took about an hour of prompt engineering, but I finally managed to get it to generate generic JRPG music. This is such a niche genre with such strange traits that it took forever to give it a prompt it would understand:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/arienne-audio/xenso2
Another full hour of prompt engineering delivered this flute and piano piece:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/arienne-audio/flute3all
And for some reason I saved the second half of this piece in a separate file:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/arienne-audio/flute4%3Fsi%3D0cf4f211320c44a8948933f98ad0684d%26amp%3Butm_source%3Dclipboard%26amp%3Butm_medium%3Dtext%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dsocial_sharing
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 15, 2024 18:20:21 GMT -6
This scares the shit out of me, but in terms of stock music I'm not sure what impact this is going to have on a market that's already been decimated once by Kevin McLeod. Songwriting gigs for big labels? That seems more dangerous. I asked suno to write a punk song about itself:
Some interesting turns of phrase and ideas here. A few changes and a re-record to make this a viable song.
What does scare me is it sounds like that AI is taking the absolute piss out of you, “part of a cold calculated scam" and a “ghost in the gallery a thief in the night” OFML..  What’s even worse is it’s better than 95% of the crap I’ve listened to on the Apple for you rock channels lately. |
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 15, 2024 18:31:33 GMT -6
Yeah, I've typically lost all interest in most mainstream. I did a lot of work in the eastern market, plus I enjoy a game or two especially the soundtracks which has pushed me in different listening directions.. Not necessarily a thunderstorm of sonic quality but some damn interesting music and yes, I'm not just a solid metalhead. I even enjoy a bit of moonlight sonata on occasion or Tocata in D minor, then again I like club music, swing, death or black metal etc. I'm sort of genre augnostic.. It took about an hour of prompt engineering, but I finally managed to get it to generate generic JRPG music. This is such a niche genre with such strange traits that it took forever to give it a prompt it would understand:
Yeah, it kinda messed up completely here. So, we're not at that level yet but I'm sure given time it we will be.. Thanks for putting the effort in, very interesting. Here's a couple of proper JRPG game songs..
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Post by M57 on Apr 15, 2024 18:44:43 GMT -6
What prompts are necessary to get it to where it's at? --> It doesn't need much. A few words ! Ask for "a trippy trance track with dogs barking, seagulls calls and a talkbox" for example and it will probably generate something potent. I don't know how the AI creates the audio output (& I think the developers don't quite know it themselves). It's probably been trained on waveforms ; program materials (human work). I guess the AI creates the waveform from thin air, based on the prompt. Sample by sample...? The audio output quality : It's good enough that it frightens me. The voices are ok. The harmonies, the structures, also kinda ok. Not game changing, but average. The tracks sound like a low bitrate file, but I'm pretty sure they're working on making it sound better. And as investors inject millions and millions of dollars into these techs, sure enough they will improve quickly, with no safeguard in place, no regulation, no ethical concerns etc. There's no way the OP's link was generated with just a few prompts. It's very specific genre-wise and highly stylized. I would be shocked if it was entirely created by AI, much less written by AI. |
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Apr 15, 2024 18:44:45 GMT -6
It took about an hour of prompt engineering, but I finally managed to get it to generate generic JRPG music. This is such a niche genre with such strange traits that it took forever to give it a prompt it would understand:
Yeah, it kinda messed up completely here. So, we're not at that level yet but I'm sure given time it we will be.. Thanks for putting the effort in, very interesting. Here's a couple of proper JRPG game songs..
see, these are good jrpg songs. It's pretty accurate for stuff with a shit soundtrack. |
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Post by rowmat on Apr 15, 2024 18:46:03 GMT -6
It’s not only audio.
AI is already re-engineering the movie/video industry.
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 15, 2024 18:49:25 GMT -6
see, these are good jrpg songs. It's pretty accurate for stuff with a shit soundtrack. Lol, yeah like the basement startup game audio engineer who doesn't even know how what the words linear based attenuation means. I've met a few of those in my time..
I'm just glad we're not "there" quite yet, in terms of good JRPG songs and that AI there's no comparison unless you're a hack really. Sure there's plenty of them around but it's no loss even to the dev's who hire them for $10..
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Apr 15, 2024 18:50:53 GMT -6
see, these are good jrpg songs. It's pretty accurate for stuff with a shit soundtrack. Lol, yeah like the basement startup game audio engineer who doesn't even know how what the words linear based attenuation means. I've met a few of those in my time..
I'm just glad we're not "there" quite yet, in terms of good JRPG songs and that AI there's no comparison unless you're a hack really. Sure there's plenty of them around but it's no loss even to the dev's who hire them for $10..
it's a bit like someone hired an intern to write a fusion between xenoblade battle music and PSO2's early release music but gave them only 5 second snippets of each |
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 15, 2024 18:53:19 GMT -6
Lol, yeah like the basement startup game audio engineer who doesn't even know how what the words linear based attenuation means. I've met a few of those in my time..
I'm just glad we're not "there" quite yet, in terms of good JRPG songs and that AI there's no comparison unless you're a hack really. Sure there's plenty of them around but it's no loss even to the dev's who hire them for $10..
it's a bit like someone hired an intern to write a fusion between xenoblade battle music and PSO2's early release music but gave them only 5 second snippets of each Sorry my friend but may I geek out for a second, have you heard a Nobuo Uematsu rendition in full orchestra? I mean it's one of the most popular games of all time like but not many goes to see or hear the soundtrack. London symphony orc yeah... |
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Ari
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Post by Ari on Apr 15, 2024 18:56:11 GMT -6
it's a bit like someone hired an intern to write a fusion between xenoblade battle music and PSO2's early release music but gave them only 5 second snippets of each Sorry my friend but may I geek out for a second, have you heard a Nobuo Uematsu rendition in full orchestra? I mean it's one of the most popular games of all time like but not many goes to see or hear the soundtrack. London symphony orc yeah... i just said the words "PSO2's early release music" which is an insanely niche thing to reference so of course I've seen distant worlds live more than once, haha |
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Post by M57 on Apr 16, 2024 11:01:00 GMT -6
What prompts are necessary to get it to where it's at? --> It doesn't need much. A few words ! Ask for "a trippy trance track with dogs barking, seagulls calls and a talkbox" for example and it will probably generate something potent. I don't know how the AI creates the audio output (& I think the developers don't quite know it themselves). It's probably been trained on waveforms ; program materials (human work). I guess the AI creates the waveform from thin air, based on the prompt. Sample by sample...? The audio output quality : It's good enough that it frightens me. The voices are ok. The harmonies, the structures, also kinda ok. Not game changing, but average. The tracks sound like a low bitrate file, but I'm pretty sure they're working on making it sound better. And as investors inject millions and millions of dollars into these techs, sure enough they will improve quickly, with no safeguard in place, no regulation, no ethical concerns etc. There's no way the OP's link was generated with just a few prompts. It's very specific genre-wise and highly stylized. I would be shocked if it was entirely created by AI, much less written by AI. Well, I'll be damned. I checked out Udio. Getting to the full length song requires a couple of steps/edits/extra prompts, and no doubt there's a limit and range of genres that it is capable of emulating, AND the writing and music is of borderline quality so there are no hits to be made there yet, BUT I'd say give it time and it will certainly be capable of creating reasonable recordings that will have utilitarian function. Ya know, there was a time when the only way to listen to music was to get out the sheet music and play it yourself. I wonder that once AI is making music videos featuring "famous" AI bands and artists performing things that are impossible for humans to play, things will come full circle. That, or the Singularity will simply decide that we are "unnecessary." |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 16, 2024 12:21:26 GMT -6
What prompts are necessary to get it to where it's at? --> It doesn't need much. A few words ! Ask for "a trippy trance track with dogs barking, seagulls calls and a talkbox" for example and it will probably generate something potent. I don't know how the AI creates the audio output (& I think the developers don't quite know it themselves). It's probably been trained on waveforms ; program materials (human work). I guess the AI creates the waveform from thin air, based on the prompt. Sample by sample...? The audio output quality : It's good enough that it frightens me. The voices are ok. The harmonies, the structures, also kinda ok. Not game changing, but average. The tracks sound like a low bitrate file, but I'm pretty sure they're working on making it sound better. And as investors inject millions and millions of dollars into these techs, sure enough they will improve quickly, with no safeguard in place, no regulation, no ethical concerns etc. “Investors” have been pumping millions and millions into everything and anything ever since the word “investor” came into common parlance. Ethics - what are those - they went out of the windows some time shortly after man discovered life outside of his cave. This is just more of the same, more adult pacifiers, like tabloid news papers, pap TV and mobile phone social media. The crap has been pumped out the sewer forever it’s just digital crap allows the flow rate to increase exponentially. I honestly wouldn’t worry about this stuff too much, longer term we always develop immunity to it  |
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Post by lowlou on Apr 16, 2024 14:59:17 GMT -6
Sure.
Now more than ever you & I have to make genuine music, because the commercial sauce, AI will probably do it better & 1000 times faster.
It doesn't change a whole lot. It's getting tougher that's all. Oh and now anybody can steal your voice, lol, that's another bummer nobody would have thought possible 5 years ago.
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 16, 2024 15:58:46 GMT -6
Sure. Now more than ever you & I have to make genuine music, because the commercial sauce, AI will probably do it better & 1000 times faster. It doesn't change a whole lot. It's getting tougher that's all. Oh and now anybody can steal your voice, lol, that's another bummer nobody would have thought possible 5 years ago. That's why I can see all of this getting banned in years to come, all it takes is for someone to mimic a person in power and they will hammer down on it like no tomorrow. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 16, 2024 16:02:58 GMT -6
The game is close to being over for those who write for :
- commercials
- TV
- B & C level films. A level blockbuster films will still hire a real composer.
- Youtube videos
- reality TV
- anything that does not require a "artist" personality to drive it. (And even there, AI is accelerating)
In the last 6 months since I really thought about this, the strides that have been made are astounding. There are no brakes, and there is no political will to stop even if there were brakes. If you're OK with your musical experience being the total sum of playing your guitar in a coffee shop for $50 a night, then all is good - those opportunities will continue, although you'll have much more competition from the other musicians whose careers have been annihilated. If you seek a studio career as an engineer, or studio musician, or arranger, or composer, or producer / etc. there will be little work for any but the AAA level guys/gals with long standing career experience and accolades. This will destroy the middle class musicians. Some are saying make as much money and invest as much as you can right now, because by 2030 the work force will look nothing like we have now, and even jobs may be a thing of the past.
Just "believing" that this will go like past trends is naive. Buckle up!!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 16:07:35 GMT -6
Sums of experience and music I'd say, I was walking down the street and heard someone clattering on some bins which sparked an interesting idea. Not saying it was a good one but sometimes even a car indicator can spark something due to rhythm alone. Then for me mood is triggered usually by memory or situation which often sets the timbre.. This is outside the confines of professional writing though and in those regards I sympathise, yeah it sucks but even then what's the difference today? I'm honestly asking. We have an onslaught of material mathematically devised to hit the most amount of streams whilst tens if not hundreds of millions of tracks (maybe more) flounder within the void. So AI adds to the ever overflowing pile and what? Unless you're in the right circle or have a massive social media advertisement budget what's changed? As someone just writing songs and wanting to play live, nothing has changed for me. I'm an outsider looking in, the expectancy of anything successful dissolved when the internet went into full swing. The one benefit I have over AI is arms and legs, so playing live should still be a fun thing to do. Also it would be interesting if AI could deliver something like Opeth which is I guess popular within its niche but certainly different.
Arms and legs make for a much more compelling live show typically. Hey now some of us can put up a decent live show short a bunch of fingers and toes at least 😁 |
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Post by M57 on Apr 16, 2024 17:58:55 GMT -6
The game is close to being over for those who write for : - commercials - TV - B & C level films. A level blockbuster films will still hire a real composer. - Youtube videos - reality TV - anything that does not require a "artist" personality to drive it. (And even there, AI is accelerating) In the last 6 months since I really thought about this, the strides that have been made are astounding. There are no brakes, and there is no political will to stop even if there were brakes. If you're OK with your musical experience being the total sum of playing your guitar in a coffee shop for $50 a night, then all is good - those opportunities will continue, although you'll have much more competition from the other musicians whose careers have been annihilated. If you seek a studio career as an engineer, or studio musician, or arranger, or composer, or producer / etc. there will be little work for any but the AAA level guys/gals with long standing career experience and accolades. This will destroy the middle class musicians. Some are saying make as much money and invest as much as you can right now, because by 2030 the work force will look nothing like we have now, and even jobs may be a thing of the past. Just "believing" that this will go like past trends is naive. Buckle up!! Of course it's not a trend and it won't go away, but neither will the public's need for 'real' entertainment. That means live performances by living breathing musicians that they can relate to on a personal level. There's no question, technology has decimated millions of jobs over the last 200 years. I for one am grateful that I don't have to ride a horse to get to work to pick cotton in field for 12 hours a day. When tech does something just as well and more efficiently than humans, I say bring it. Yeah, there's pain with progress, but nothing can stifle the human spirit. People won't stop playing instruments or writing music just because computers can do it better or more efficiently. People will create because they just have to. It's in our DNA, and technology will be there for us to make it better. As for an example with AI, already a decent Chess (or Go) program can beat the shit out of the best players in the world playing their A+ game 100 times out of 100, yet the (human) chess world is enjoying a renaissance of popularity. Sure, there are tournaments where computers play computers, but guess what? Almost no one cares. They prefer to watch smelly meatbags playing the game. Me? I always wear a seat belt. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 17, 2024 2:33:44 GMT -6
Arms and legs make for a much more compelling live show typically. Hey now some of us can put up a decent live show short a bunch of fingers and toes at least 😁 And there is also the Def Leppard factor too. |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 17, 2024 2:42:38 GMT -6
Arms and legs make for a much more compelling live show typically. Sure do. And they are working on that. . Just wait till they execute the hot babe model - then the final frontier (did you notice my nice alliteration? AI is KILLER at artistic alliterations) is lips moving. <<thumbsup>> Lest anyone doubt or have their head in the sand, music 20 years from now will bear virtually no resemblance to music 2024, and certainly not to music 1979. At the rate of progression, it might take only 10 years.... Glad I'm in the phasing out stage of my career as opposed to the ramping up stage. My sincerest best wishes for those of you just starting out.... It's a moral dilemma. If you arrived home and your wife was making out with a AI robotic Robert Downey Jr. - would you feel like she had been unfaithful to you or she was just having some fun with a sex toy! I actually discussed this with my lovely wife (25 years happily married) and she said all excitedly "do they make Robert Downey Jr. robots now!" ..... |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 17, 2024 7:01:15 GMT -6
Hmmm ? |
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