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Post by frans on Apr 16, 2024 1:44:29 GMT -6
If going for a M260 (which loves electric guitar cabs) make sure you don't get the version with the inbuilt (into the transformer, so not moddable) lowcut - it is only available used.
The MC740 is kind of a mid-sized capsule, neither SDC nor LDC. It sound pretty much the same no matter what pattern you switch it to. People who record classical music are familiar with it. IMHO it has a little treble lift, which comes handy when being a few feet back from the source.. but unlike the treble lift in some Neumanns.
If you want a SDC, try the MC930. A while ago we met with friends and everybody was bringing a few mics to try. There were 25+ different SDCs, vintage and new, most of them expensive, FET, tube, everything. There was a new MC930 in there. I wouldn't hesitate to use a MC930 on every occasion where i need an SDC with the right pattern, but you can check that out for yourself.
And now, back to it's majesty the M160. I have heavy overhead mic stands, on top of each are stereo bars. Usually two pairs of mics are there at the start of a session. A pair of M160s. A pair of MC740. Wired and ready to go.
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Post by woofhead on Apr 16, 2024 11:51:00 GMT -6
Ive used m160's in stereo on a yamaha c3 piano( 6 foot grand) I used to own and they worked great, especially in an all in one room jazz recording with drums, acoustic bass and a horn in the same room.Steve Remote, who does a lot of remote recording work of acoustic ensembles had mentioned the 160 many times for those situations and I was glad I checked it out.
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Post by paulcheeba on Apr 16, 2024 20:11:20 GMT -6
It’s always surprised me how highly rated the ribbons are as they sound quite hard and thin compared to RCA or STC but you can’t argue with those Bonham drum sounds.
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Post by frans on Apr 21, 2024 5:04:39 GMT -6
Paul, i've come across a few M160s and depending on their history, some of them sound .. off. The Beyer that sounds closest to a Coles 4038 would be the M130 (which nobody ever seems to own) and it shares for example the characteristic that it keeps up the root note and it's lowend/lowmid content even if the source thins out a bit in front of the mic when playing across the range of an instrument.
But then again, I wouldn't necessary use a M130 if i can put a 4038 in that place and there's a number of good reasons to own at least a pair of 4038s even if you got a few other good ribbons anyway. After all, why shouldn't we own the whole palette of available mics just for the fun of it :-)
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Post by smashlord on Apr 21, 2024 9:05:09 GMT -6
It’s always surprised me how highly rated the ribbons are as they sound quite hard and thin compared to RCA or STC but you can’t argue with those Bonham drum sounds. To me, they are a different beast all together. They definitely have slight smiley face response (if placed close to the source) compared to other ribbons, but I find that makes them suited to certain sources. They are especially effective on small combos because they have a strong proximity effect combined with an upper midrange lift that helps balance out the usual honk those amps will have. They are a great choice in general for balancing out honkier sources. |
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Apr 21, 2024 13:17:09 GMT -6
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Post by krackle on Apr 21, 2024 13:17:09 GMT -6
Well Shadowk, not only is the Beyer M160 one of the all-time enduring greats in the overall general purpose utility ribbon mics category, The M88 is likely the best Small diaphragm dynamic ever made, Try out the Beyer cardioid 740 or multi pattern 834, which is by far the best natural sounding LDC I've used. No hype, incredibly perfect no-noise no-harshness, most honest and accurate Large Diaphragm solid state microphone. Ever. They are more like mid sized but yeah except for the gate like effect you can hear on long decays of featured acoustic instruments. A very very over looked mic. If we are talking beyer ribbons don’t forget the M260. While the dual diaphragm of the 160 gives you more output the single diaphragm of the 260 means your not at the mercy of the summing of the 2 diaphragms so it can bring out a tad more detail. Ericn .. Can you clarify on the ‘gate like effect’ as to which of the Beyer mics you’re talking about ? The two Beyer mid sized capsule condensers? 740 or 834? |
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Apr 21, 2024 13:22:15 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Apr 21, 2024 13:22:15 GMT -6
They are more like mid sized but yeah except for the gate like effect you can hear on long decays of featured acoustic instruments. A very very over looked mic. If we are talking beyer ribbons don’t forget the M260. While the dual diaphragm of the 160 gives you more output the single diaphragm of the 260 means your not at the mercy of the summing of the 2 diaphragms so it can bring out a tad more detail. Erica.. Can you clarify on the ‘gate like effect’ as to which of the Beyer mics you’re talking about ? The two Beyer mid sized capsule condensers? 740 or 834? Both, it’s subtle and really effects the very very end of the decay and reverb, but if you crank up the gain on your monitor chain you can hear and actually more and more I find it a benefit vs a negative. |
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Post by krackle on Apr 21, 2024 13:43:17 GMT -6
Sorry..my phone thought it’d better make that “Erica”
Thanks…interesting
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Post by ericn on Apr 21, 2024 18:20:58 GMT -6
Sorry..my phone thought it’d better make that “Erica” Thanks…interesting Yeah I figured auto incorrect 😁 |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 22, 2024 14:54:07 GMT -6
Anybody that has an m160 they don't like, I'll take it off your hands no problem. I'll even pay for shipping!
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 22, 2024 15:49:30 GMT -6
I haven't spent enough time with mine to decide whether to sell it or not, just wish others (especially those that love their specific M160 mics) would look at the frequency response plot Beyer provided for those mics and see if they're "smoother" than mine which I posted above (link again: ibb.co/RhBG0xS). Is mine a phasey dud or is it that maybe the M160 in general is like that. (mind you I have Coles 4038, AEA R44, and RM BIV1 mics that I can compare to...and REALLY like). Thanks. -Chris |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 22, 2024 16:07:03 GMT -6
I haven't spent enough time with mine to decide whether to sell it or not, just wish others (especially those that love their specific M160 mics) would look at the frequency response plot Beyer provided for those mics and see if they're "smoother" than mine which I posted above (link again: ibb.co/RhBG0xS). Is mine a phasey dud or is it that maybe the M160 in general is like that. (mind you I have Coles 4038, AEA R44, and RM BIV1 mics that I can compare to...and REALLY like). Thanks. -Chris That is kind of weird, but what is the test you're doing? Are you saying you have frequency curves for the others you listed that are smooth? I suspect that if I did a test like that it would be all over the map because of the fact that I'm testing in a tracking room as opposed to an anechoic chamber. But I've never really tried. |
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 22, 2024 17:26:38 GMT -6
That is kind of weird, but what is the test you're doing? Are you saying you have frequency curves for the others you listed that are smooth? I suspect that if I did a test like that it would be all over the map because of the fact that I'm testing in a tracking room as opposed to an anechoic chamber. But I've never really tried. Beyerdynamic did the test, provides it in the box with each new mic (presumably done with anechoic chamber), at least for my M88 and M160. The measurement is tied to the specific mic’s serial number. ibb.co/RhBG0xSThe smooth curve at the top of my figure (I put it together with Powerpoint, similar to what I do for my day job to present circuits) is a screenshot from their webpage “for a typical M160”, so it's a general M160 frequency curve provided by Beyer in pdf that anybody can download. The bottom “jagged “ curve is from a scan of the one that came with my brand new M160 purchased a couple months ago (and provided in the box from Beyer) I'm looking to hear from other M160 owners who have the same plots provided by Beyer (for comparison), if possible |
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Post by knucklehead89 on Apr 22, 2024 18:26:01 GMT -6
Love my pair of M160’s. I’ll never sell them.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 23, 2024 8:49:10 GMT -6
That is kind of weird, but what is the test you're doing? Are you saying you have frequency curves for the others you listed that are smooth? I suspect that if I did a test like that it would be all over the map because of the fact that I'm testing in a tracking room as opposed to an anechoic chamber. But I've never really tried. Beyerdynamic did the test, provides it in the box with each new mic (presumably done with anechoic chamber), at least for my M88 and M160. The measurement is tied to the specific mic’s serial number. ibb.co/RhBG0xSThe smooth curve at the top of my figure (I put it together with Powerpoint, similar to what I do for my day job to present circuits) is a screenshot from their webpage “for a typical M160”, so it's a general M160 frequency curve provided by Beyer in pdf that anybody can download. The bottom “jagged “ curve is from a scan of the one that came with my brand new M160 purchased a couple months ago (and provided in the box from Beyer) I'm looking to hear from other M160 owners who have the same plots provided by Beyer (for comparison), if possible Oh, that curve is from Beyer's own test? Geez. Yeah that's not what mine looked like. EDIT: I'm going on memory. I'll dig through my old boxes and see if I still have the freq chart that came with my m160. I love that mic so it doesn't go back in its box very often! Not even sure where it is. |
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Post by 80hz on Apr 23, 2024 11:22:49 GMT -6
Can anyone summarize the differences between a newer Beyerdynamic M160 vs the older version? Which one is more ideal to own if I were looking to buy today?
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Post by bikescene on Apr 24, 2024 11:34:18 GMT -6
That is kind of weird, but what is the test you're doing? Are you saying you have frequency curves for the others you listed that are smooth? I suspect that if I did a test like that it would be all over the map because of the fact that I'm testing in a tracking room as opposed to an anechoic chamber. But I've never really tried. Beyerdynamic did the test, provides it in the box with each new mic (presumably done with anechoic chamber), at least for my M88 and M160. The measurement is tied to the specific mic’s serial number. ibb.co/RhBG0xSThe smooth curve at the top of my figure (I put it together with Powerpoint, similar to what I do for my day job to present circuits) is a screenshot from their webpage “for a typical M160”, so it's a general M160 frequency curve provided by Beyer in pdf that anybody can download. The bottom “jagged “ curve is from a scan of the one that came with my brand new M160 purchased a couple months ago (and provided in the box from Beyer) I'm looking to hear from other M160 owners who have the same plots provided by Beyer (for comparison), if possible The smoothness of the curve is exactly that. It’s octave smoothing to convey broad information on that logarithmic scale. The smooth part of the graph is representing 100 to 200Hz between vertical lines. The vertical lines are representing 1000Hz in the jagged part, and the data points are all packed together based on the log scale. If you ever play with Room EQ Wizard, you can see the effect of smoothing, and how narrow peaks and dips get averaged out with more heavy handed smoothing. I took a picture of my two M160 graphs. My older one from 2022 does not have the big bump at 100Hz interestingly. The newer one with the bump sounds better for electric guitar cab.  |
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 24, 2024 12:10:47 GMT -6
Absolutely love my m160s. Have gotten killer sounds on jazz overheads and electric guitar. Pretty sure Eddie Kramer said he couldn't imagine a better electric guitar cab mic. Probably the best sounds I've gotten on my own guitar stuff. I think I've tried it and enjoyed on mandolin as well.
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 24, 2024 13:06:13 GMT -6
The smoothness of the curve is exactly that. It’s octave smoothing to convey broad information on that logarithmic scale. The smooth part of the graph is representing 100 to 200Hz between vertical lines. The vertical lines are representing 1000Hz in the jagged part, and the data points are all packed together based on the log scale. If you ever play with Room EQ Wizard, you can see the effect of smoothing, and how narrow peaks and dips get averaged out with more heavy handed smoothing. I took a picture of my two M160 graphs. My older one from 2022 does not have the big bump at 100Hz interestingly. The newer one with the bump sounds better for electric guitar cab. Thank you! After seeing the curves from your two mics and also mine, I think it means that the "smooth" curve provided in their pdf as a "typical mic" is actually the ensemble average curve of many such curves - they can all be "jagged" to some degree or another but only the systematic (consistent for many mics, on average) will remain in their key plot (the jagged stuff "cancels"). Semiconductor data sheets often do the same thing (I work for a semiconductor company). To me, it means my mic is likely just another random sample not so far from the ordinary. Of course, maybe we all bought "b-stock" mics that look that like, ha ha, (but I doubt it!). I really appreciate you posting those curves, makes me much less annoyed about mine. Wish we could buy that magically smooth mic though! -Chris |
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Post by frans on Apr 25, 2024 2:43:08 GMT -6
Can anyone summarize the differences between a newer Beyerdynamic M160 vs the older version? Which one is more ideal to own if I were looking to buy today? The new version is built exactly like the old version. There are M160s that are worn out, there are some that are not within specs. |
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Post by Omicron9 on Apr 25, 2024 11:59:07 GMT -6
Can anyone summarize the differences between a newer Beyerdynamic M160 vs the older version? Which one is more ideal to own if I were looking to buy today? The one that's the most ideal to own is the one that has the logo you prefer. From Beyer's website (https://global.beyerdynamic.com/m-160.html): "What changes were made to the microphones? First and foremost, the printing on the mics was changed. This way, our classic microphones speak the current design language of beyerdynamic. In addition, the heritage band recognizes the important fact that these mics are made in Germany. The new look combines tradition with future and expresses our microphone DNA. Sound-relevant components such as membranes or transformers have not been changed. Does the sound of the microphones change? As a company, it is important to us that the known and beloved acoustic properties of the M Series microphones stay unchanged – that is why the microphone transducers and other sound-absorbing parts will be produced in the same way they have always been."  -09 |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 25, 2024 13:42:56 GMT -6
Can anyone summarize the differences between a newer Beyerdynamic M160 vs the older version? Which one is more ideal to own if I were looking to buy today? The one that's the most ideal to own is the one that has the logo you prefer. From Beyer's website (https://global.beyerdynamic.com/m-160.html): "What changes were made to the microphones? First and foremost, the printing on the mics was changed. This way, our classic microphones speak the current design language of beyerdynamic. In addition, the heritage band recognizes the important fact that these mics are made in Germany. The new look combines tradition with future and expresses our microphone DNA. Sound-relevant components such as membranes or transformers have not been changed. Does the sound of the microphones change? As a company, it is important to us that the known and beloved acoustic properties of the M Series microphones stay unchanged – that is why the microphone transducers and other sound-absorbing parts will be produced in the same way they have always been." -09 "Great, so now they're just straight up lying to us." - Purple Site style response to this |
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Post by ulriggribbons on Apr 25, 2024 14:53:10 GMT -6
Can anyone summarize the differences between a newer Beyerdynamic M160 vs the older version? Which one is more ideal to own if I were looking to buy today? Can you clarify what you mean by new? =) I don't think that the recent change announced (with the new graphic and red line on them) has been released yet? At least I've yet to see one. For the last (more than a decade), the motors in the M160 have been built using neodymium magnets. Prior to that, they used alnico magnets. To my ears, the neodymium microphones have slightly higher output, and are slightly brighter in sound. The ribbons and the rest of the microphones construction stayed the same. Considering how long the M160 has been made, they have stayed pretty consistent through the years. The earliest one I've seen in for repair had a date stamp of 1965. Unless you are a mic fetishist, I don't see a reason to chase down an older M160. Regards Jon |
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 25, 2024 18:02:45 GMT -6
Beyerdynamic did the test, provides it in the box with each new mic (presumably done with anechoic chamber), at least for my M88 and M160. The measurement is tied to the specific mic’s serial number. ibb.co/RhBG0xSThe smooth curve at the top of my figure (I put it together with Powerpoint, similar to what I do for my day job to present circuits) is a screenshot from their webpage “for a typical M160”, so it's a general M160 frequency curve provided by Beyer in pdf that anybody can download. The bottom “jagged “ curve is from a scan of the one that came with my brand new M160 purchased a couple months ago (and provided in the box from Beyer) I'm looking to hear from other M160 owners who have the same plots provided by Beyer (for comparison), if possible The smoothness of the curve is exactly that. It’s octave smoothing to convey broad information on that logarithmic scale. The smooth part of the graph is representing 100 to 200Hz between vertical lines. The vertical lines are representing 1000Hz in the jagged part, and the data points are all packed together based on the log scale. If you ever play with Room EQ Wizard, you can see the effect of smoothing, and how narrow peaks and dips get averaged out with more heavy handed smoothing. I took a picture of my two M160 graphs. My older one from 2022 does not have the big bump at 100Hz interestingly. The newer one with the bump sounds better for electric guitar cab. Mine look much like yours there. I have two m160s. One in the 26XXX's and one in the 28XXX's. One has the low end flat and one a bump, one more jagged than the other etc. Dunno how prevalent it is between mics but I still use them and love them. Unless you want matched pairs for certain things, I'd just take note and use the different responses to your advantage. |
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Post by bikescene on Apr 26, 2024 6:50:42 GMT -6
The smoothness of the curve is exactly that. It’s octave smoothing to convey broad information on that logarithmic scale. The smooth part of the graph is representing 100 to 200Hz between vertical lines. The vertical lines are representing 1000Hz in the jagged part, and the data points are all packed together based on the log scale. If you ever play with Room EQ Wizard, you can see the effect of smoothing, and how narrow peaks and dips get averaged out with more heavy handed smoothing. I took a picture of my two M160 graphs. My older one from 2022 does not have the big bump at 100Hz interestingly. The newer one with the bump sounds better for electric guitar cab. Mine look much like yours there. I have two m160s. One in the 26XXX's and one in the 28XXX's. One has the low end flat and one a bump, one more jagged than the other etc. Dunno how prevalent it is between mics but I still use them and love them. Unless you want matched pairs for certain things, I'd just take note and use the different responses to your advantage. I’ve been using my M160s interchangeably since I’ve had both, and don’t mind the variability in response. I did have this gut feeling that one was giving me a thicker sound on guitar amp. I couldn’t remember which was which until I broke out the graphs a few days back. I was using the pair as spaced drum overheads, and was very happy with how it minimized the effect of my low ceilings. |
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