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Post by smashlord on Apr 12, 2024 9:27:01 GMT -6
Does anyone have an experience with these? If so, thoughts? Planning a new studio build and I would love a console for tracking workflow, as that is what I am used to, but want to be somewhat pragmatic. Studio partner is willing to spring for something more lavish, however I've seen one of the Neve rooms in town struggle with booking a bit partly because their day rate is almost 2x of other, well-equipped studios in the area.
The area is VHCOL and not a big music hub, so its easy to price oneself out, if one is not careful.
The Box II seems to be practical for most of my needs in 2024... we have plenty of other pres (more APIs, TG-2s, VP28s, 31102s, Focusrite), so we don't need a ton more. I just like having everything at my finger tips on a fader during tracking, talkback, sends, cue, etc..... and the ability to drive outboard and yank back a fader to tape.
Also, open to alternative suggestions.
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Post by keymod on Apr 12, 2024 9:39:56 GMT -6
Sean has a killer deal on a Box I in the classifieds here.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 12, 2024 9:58:35 GMT -6
I’ve got a Daking summing mixer that I’m looking to sell, that would fit your needs…  24 into 2 with 4 aux sends for headphone mixes during tracking. Only used it for a couple sessions before the 5088 was installed, then used it for overflow. Would submix drums during tracking on the Daking, then into the 5088 where the rest of the band was tracking. Jensen transformers on the outputs. Mute groups. DB25 cabling. Really cool piece. DM me if you have any interest. |
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Post by drumsound on Apr 12, 2024 10:29:26 GMT -6
The BOX always seems like too much of not enough to me. The 1604, if being OK with the DAW mix summed during tracking seems better. But maybe I just don't get it...
I didn't even know the Daking existed.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 12, 2024 10:41:26 GMT -6
The BOX always seems like too much of not enough to me. The 1604, if being OK with the DAW mix summed during tracking seems better. But maybe I just don't get it... I didn't even know the Daking existed. The Daking is the return section from a cut down console. |
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Post by christopher on Apr 12, 2024 10:55:46 GMT -6
Get both
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Post by FM77 on Apr 12, 2024 12:59:29 GMT -6
The BOX always seems like too much of not enough to me... Yep. 100% Agree,
I have revisited it so many times over the years and could never make it work once I started to organize it on paper.
And to the OP, Matt at Mill Sounds is selling an API BOX II in the classifieds with the cabling.
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Post by smashlord on Apr 12, 2024 13:42:23 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs.
Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers.
I'm used to an 8068 and thats about all the functionality I need.... good pre, good EQ, insert, fader. It was rare that I would even use the busses and often used Hearbacks via digital sends for headphones.
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Post by FM77 on Apr 12, 2024 14:33:53 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs. Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers. I'm used to an 8068 and thats about all the functionality I need.... good pre, good EQ, insert, fader. It was rare that I would even use the busses and often used Hearbacks via digital sends for headphones. smashlord, what channel count are you looking for? And how much space have you got? I went through alot of research, trial and error and troubleshooting in the last couple of years over a similar quest. I wanted to stay analog and the selection for small, well equipped analog consoles is very limited. Analog summing busses are everywhere. If you go with digital boards or digital live boards, your options really increase, but that comes with it's own reality. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 12, 2024 17:46:27 GMT -6
Exactly the way I set it up… 500 racks above filled with preamps and eq. Only used for tracking, all mixing ITB.   |
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Post by smashlord on Apr 12, 2024 19:44:42 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs. Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers. I'm used to an 8068 and thats about all the functionality I need.... good pre, good EQ, insert, fader. It was rare that I would even use the busses and often used Hearbacks via digital sends for headphones. smashlord, what channel count are you looking for? And how much space have you got? I went through alot of research, trial and error and troubleshooting in the last couple of years over a similar quest. I wanted to stay analog and the selection for small, well equipped analog consoles is very limited. Analog summing busses are everywhere. If you go with digital boards or digital live boards, your options really increase, but that comes with it's own reality. I don't think we would need more than 24 to start. I can count on one hand the times I went over 25 channels in one tracking session. The extra 8 pres in The Box would bring us there. I typically monitor back split on 4 or 5 pairs of returns if tracking basics. In regards to space, thats TBD. We are currently looking at real estate. My partner is not an engineer so at the this stage, I am doing all the due diligence to present to him. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 12, 2024 19:44:51 GMT -6
Pretty sure andersmv is selling his. I've always liked the idea of these assuming you can fill the 500 slots nicely. |
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 12, 2024 20:13:26 GMT -6
Iron age audio? No personal experience and no idea what it would cost versus the Api. But the recent pics on here are drool worthy. If I were in the market I would at least give them a shout.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 13, 2024 11:18:47 GMT -6
I’d look into modding an older soundcraft delta, series 200, or similar console. Maybe talk to Creation Audio Labs about what they can do, or JW.
You can get a lot of bang for your buck that way. You’d have a really nice, clean sounding board with aux sends and faders, and nice eq. You’ll have your current preamps for color, and the whole thing will come in significantly cheaper than the API.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 13, 2024 11:43:30 GMT -6
I’d look into modding an older soundcraft delta, series 200, or similar console. Maybe talk to Creation Audio Labs about what they can do, or JW. You can get a lot of bang for your buck that way. You’d have a really nice, clean sounding board with aux sends and faders, and nice eq. You’ll have your current preamps for color, and the whole thing will come in significantly cheaper than the API. This is basically what I do with A&H GS3000. Inline board with lots of routing. Hero channels go through boutique pres, placeholders through console pre which is totally fine. Nobody that books cares about the name on the console, but man it makes life easy once you're here. Plus it only cost $2.5k. They give this stuff away now. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 13, 2024 11:55:07 GMT -6
I’d look into modding an older soundcraft delta, series 200, or similar console. Maybe talk to Creation Audio Labs about what they can do, or JW. You can get a lot of bang for your buck that way. You’d have a really nice, clean sounding board with aux sends and faders, and nice eq. You’ll have your current preamps for color, and the whole thing will come in significantly cheaper than the API. This is basically what I do with A&H GS3000. Inline board with lots of routing. Hero channels go through boutique pres, placeholders through console pre which is totally fine. Nobody that books cares about the name on the console, but man it makes life easy once you're here. Plus it only cost $2.5k. They give this stuff away now. I ran a massive Midas for years. Got the job done. When I upgraded to the 5088, I think more clients were more impressed with the old Midas, just because it was huge. 😂😂 |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 13, 2024 12:05:07 GMT -6
This is basically what I do with A&H GS3000. Inline board with lots of routing. Hero channels go through boutique pres, placeholders through console pre which is totally fine. Nobody that books cares about the name on the console, but man it makes life easy once you're here. Plus it only cost $2.5k. They give this stuff away now. I ran a massive Midas for years. Got the job done. When I upgraded to the 5088, I think more clients were more impressed with the old Midas, just because it was huge. 😂😂 No joke. 20% of the people I work with would appreciate the 5088, 80% would be like "but what happened to that big old board used to have?" |
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Post by jmoose on Apr 13, 2024 15:14:31 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs. Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers. API Box II (I've nearly bought one... twice) is really kind of an overgrown summing mixer. Closer to that then a proper tracking desk IMO. Only 8 preamps... the other 16 channels are more or less line/tape returns with no outputs. Like a big jukebox. There's also no real bussing/summing options for tracking... Blend close hat & ride mics into the overheads and print all 4 mics to a stereo pair? Hang 3 mics on a guitar cab and blend into one track? Nope! Great sounding desks. Real deal API tone if that's what 'ya want. Yes there's talkback and a legit center section, but the routing? Take another look. Good look and see if its got what 'ya need. Because it may not. Its not a 24x8 desk. More like 24x2. On that line the SSL XL desk does offer a bit more in terms of routing... What's that Neve desk? They also have one around the 25k mark IIRC? Also heard lots of good things about the new Trident 78/88 desks and those are more like a traditional console. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 13, 2024 15:51:16 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs. Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers. API Box II (I've nearly bought one... twice) is really kind of an overgrown summing mixer. Closer to that then a proper tracking desk IMO. Only 8 preamps... the other 16 channels are more or less line/tape returns with no outputs. Like a big jukebox. There's also no real bussing/summing options for tracking... Blend close hat & ride mics into the overheads and print all 4 mics to a stereo pair? Hang 3 mics on a guitar cab and blend into one track? Nope! Great sounding desks. Real deal API tone if that's what 'ya want. Yes there's talkback and a legit center section, but the routing? Take another look. Good look and see if its got what 'ya need. Because it may not. Its not a 24x8 desk. More like 24x2. On that line the SSL XL desk does offer a bit more in terms of routing... What's that Neve desk? They also have one around the 25k mark IIRC? Also heard lots of good things about the new Trident 78/88 desks and those are more like a traditional console. I used one of the new Trident desks at an hourly studio. Sounded fine to me and looked cool, the Trident EQ is super familiar so I really appreciated that. Supposedly there are some quality control issues but it seemed pretty solidly constructed to me. If I was looking for a midgrade studio board I would definitely look at that. |
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Post by smashlord on Apr 13, 2024 16:35:31 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs. Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers. API Box II (I've nearly bought one... twice) is really kind of an overgrown summing mixer. Closer to that then a proper tracking desk IMO. Only 8 preamps... the other 16 channels are more or less line/tape returns with no outputs. Like a big jukebox. There's also no real bussing/summing options for tracking... Blend close hat & ride mics into the overheads and print all 4 mics to a stereo pair? Hang 3 mics on a guitar cab and blend into one track? Nope! Great sounding desks. Real deal API tone if that's what 'ya want. Yes there's talkback and a legit center section, but the routing? Take another look. Good look and see if its got what 'ya need. Because it may not. Its not a 24x8 desk. More like 24x2. On that line the SSL XL desk does offer a bit more in terms of routing... What's that Neve desk? They also have one around the 25k mark IIRC? Also heard lots of good things about the new Trident 78/88 desks and those are more like a traditional console. This is excellent, thank you! I somehow missed that there were no outputs on the 8 stereo faders. That immediately rules it out for me. I used one of the SSL XL desks regularly for about 5 years. The routing is indeed pretty good considering its size, but I always felt it was a lot of coin for what you get.... the SSL pres aren't amazing and the board didn't really sound great pushed. Looks like its time to research the 1608..... |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 13, 2024 17:42:52 GMT -6
Hey thanks to everyone for your feedback and all the PMs. Just to clarify, I am more looking for something conducive to a tracking workflow than a summing mixer. I would probably still mix ITB with HW inserts, unless its something I needed to yank back a fader for. Having pres and EQs, which is what I would pop in the 500 slots, in the same spot at my finger tips, between the monitors is primarily why I am considering this route. I've worked at many spots that have amazing racks of gear that are spread around the room and its never the same as just having it all, right there, between the speakers. API Box II (I've nearly bought one... twice) is really kind of an overgrown summing mixer. Closer to that then a proper tracking desk IMO. Only 8 preamps... the other 16 channels are more or less line/tape returns with no outputs. Like a big jukebox. There's also no real bussing/summing options for tracking... Blend close hat & ride mics into the overheads and print all 4 mics to a stereo pair? Hang 3 mics on a guitar cab and blend into one track? Nope! Great sounding desks. Real deal API tone if that's what 'ya want. Yes there's talkback and a legit center section, but the routing? Take another look. Good look and see if its got what 'ya need. Because it may not. Its not a 24x8 desk. More like 24x2. On that line the SSL XL desk does offer a bit more in terms of routing... What's that Neve desk? They also have one around the 25k mark IIRC? Also heard lots of good things about the new Trident 78/88 desks and those are more like a traditional console. I have to agree, I would rather a pair of old 8200’s and a pair of 7600 strips better routing. The box just seams like someone spent more time trying to design something that wouldn’t hurt 1608 sales rather than a really useful mixer. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 13, 2024 17:45:58 GMT -6
Exactly the way I set it up… 500 racks above filled with preamps and eq. Only used for tracking, all mixing ITB. If that Daking was set up to line up with a 500 series rack and was 2 chassis so you could lay it out like a console it would be awesome. Well okay some bussing options would be cool but still that thing is sick. |
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 13, 2024 18:58:30 GMT -6
I do like me some Daking gear. Wish I could afford more but for my needs I consider myself fortunate to have what I have.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by jmoose on Apr 14, 2024 15:17:57 GMT -6
I have to agree, I would rather a pair of old 8200’s and a pair of 7600 strips better routing. The box just seams like someone spent more time trying to design something that wouldn’t hurt 1608 sales rather than a really useful mixer. Dunno what or how your agreeing with me because I don't share that view? To me the Box, and the SSL XL desk (more on that in a second) are pretty killer for what they are. Desks that have the large format sound, quality and feel without the massive price tags and need for a dedicated machine room of power supplies. Only reason I didn't end up with a Box, twice over was really due to pricing vs timing. Simply didn't work out. Value I think is killer. Just a pair of 3124 & 2500 comp will run $9-10K and the whole desk is $16k? So that stuff, a proper 16 channel summing mixer w/ aux sends... mute & solos... and a really killer proper center section? How much is a Crane Song Avocet again?? But the routing... no doubt a smackie 8 buss has more routing options if that's what 'ya need. Or if you want that stuff, plus the real sonics then you pay the real money for a real desk and move up the ladder The SSL XL desk..? I own its baby brother and love it. Excellent hub for someone like me that doesn't mix ITB and uses hardware outboard. And if your headroom challenged like me? Quite excellent! Does it sound good pushed? No. The tone of the 2 mix doesn't change no matter how much gets piled on. Not much unlike the RND 5088 in that regard... both modern desks. There's just oodles & oodles of headroom, enough to blow out pretty much every other piece of gear in the shop... and the tone doesn't change until its actually clipped... at which point either desk (5088/XL desk) goes into immediate, super nasty digital like clipping. But like I said it can blow out and clip pretty much everything else in the room before the desk itself clips so this is not a problem. Not to be understated with any of these is build quality. The box feels like a proper API desk. If you've ever spent time on something like a Legacy then the feel, and the sound is instantly familiar. Or at least was to me. The SSL XL desk feels, well... maybe not quite as solid as an old 4K but very proper none the less. And quite a bit more solid then something like the mini 6... which... I'm not going to call it fisher price... stop short of that but the build quality is certainly closer to presonus level then the proper kit SSL has made in the past. Which... they are capable of it. Couple weeks ago I bought one of the new quad drive preamps and that thing is as solid as anything else. Kinda like they figured out what to build first and let the price fall where it did... And yes FWIW I am trying to get over my fear of SSL mic amps! Ever since learning from a pal who was there, that Brendan o'Brien used the SSL desk pres on drums for everything... all those infamous 90s albums? Well ok! Good enough for him good enough for me. |
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Post by Dan on Apr 15, 2024 7:09:01 GMT -6
I have to agree, I would rather a pair of old 8200’s and a pair of 7600 strips better routing. The box just seams like someone spent more time trying to design something that wouldn’t hurt 1608 sales rather than a really useful mixer. Dunno what or how your agreeing with me because I don't share that view? To me the Box, and the SSL XL desk (more on that in a second) are pretty killer for what they are. Desks that have the large format sound, quality and feel without the massive price tags and need for a dedicated machine room of power supplies. Only reason I didn't end up with a Box, twice over was really due to pricing vs timing. Simply didn't work out. Value I think is killer. Just a pair of 3124 & 2500 comp will run $9-10K and the whole desk is $16k? So that stuff, a proper 16 channel summing mixer w/ aux sends... mute & solos... and a really killer proper center section? How much is a Crane Song Avocet again?? But the routing... no doubt a smackie 8 buss has more routing options if that's what 'ya need. Or if you want that stuff, plus the real sonics then you pay the real money for a real desk and move up the ladder The SSL XL desk..? I own its baby brother and love it. Excellent hub for someone like me that doesn't mix ITB and uses hardware outboard. And if your headroom challenged like me? Quite excellent! Does it sound good pushed? No. The tone of the 2 mix doesn't change no matter how much gets piled on. Not much unlike the RND 5088 in that regard... both modern desks. There's just oodles & oodles of headroom, enough to blow out pretty much every other piece of gear in the shop... and the tone doesn't change until its actually clipped... at which point either desk (5088/XL desk) goes into immediate, super nasty digital like clipping. But like I said it can blow out and clip pretty much everything else in the room before the desk itself clips so this is not a problem. Not to be understated with any of these is build quality. The box feels like a proper API desk. If you've ever spent time on something like a Legacy then the feel, and the sound is instantly familiar. Or at least was to me. The SSL XL desk feels, well... maybe not quite as solid as an old 4K but very proper none the less. And quite a bit more solid then something like the mini 6... which... I'm not going to call it fisher price... stop short of that but the build quality is certainly closer to presonus level then the proper kit SSL has made in the past. Which... they are capable of it. Couple weeks ago I bought one of the new quad drive preamps and that thing is as solid as anything else. Kinda like they figured out what to build first and let the price fall where it did... And yes FWIW I am trying to get over my fear of SSL mic amps! Ever since learning from a pal who was there, that Brendan o'Brien used the SSL desk pres on drums for everything... all those infamous 90s albums? Well ok! Good enough for him good enough for me. SSL has board mounted jacks and pots and cheaped out the circuits from the Super Analogue days. It’s pretty much a clone now and what they SELL has little in common with the build quality they used to MAKE beyond often being later, cheaper iterations of the same designs. But so are the clones and the Smart C2 is a cleaned up SSL bus. Older SSL rack gear was top notch but nobody wants clean. They’re obsessed with color to hide their crap music played by crap musicians playing crap instruments recorded by crap microphones going through crap circuits. When you see a great guitarist make a dozen albums through a Zoom 505, the problem isn’t the gear, it’s what’s being recorded. The worst are the plugs they make. Except for the Relab developed X-Verb they were all crap and are still all crap. Now they joined waves in making crappy circuit modeled strips but want hundreds of dollars or to bleed you dry with subscription options. Unless the circuit models do some crazy weird stuff like Soundtoys or the Fuse VCL whatevers, there’s no point to that. The ssl native channel strip comp if you hit peak is so bad and the bus comp behaves nothing like any ssl bus hardware. It physically cannot because they didn’t model the non-linear rectifier that’s partially half-wave for some frequencies and the auto release behavior is a little odd but so are some clones. |
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