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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2024 19:52:12 GMT -6
Click bait subject alert! Here's what I'm talking about.
T-Bone gets into hyperbolic Dylan Chronicles territory (if you've read it you know... Dylan has unlocked the secrets to the universe basically) talking about how he and his engineers have unlocked a brand new sonic dimension or some such. The gist of it is that everyone plays really quietly. Ok, that part I get.
But he's also really obsessed with discussing how he adds all this thickness and texture to the low end... that's the new sonic dimension he's invented.
I've listened to a lot of T-Bone stuff and I love his producing. But I didn't notice any brand new sonic dimension. Maybe I'll go back and listen more closely to the low end.
He's talking about double and triple tracking bass for example. Tuning kick drums to be extra boomy. It sounds really interesting in theory but I kinda feel like if I tried this it would just be straight mud.
Anyone know the interview I'm talking about?
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Post by geoff738 on Mar 23, 2024 20:10:53 GMT -6
I don’t know the interview but he produced the Joe Henry album Fuse. In 1999. Lanois mixed some of it, but I have become somewhat obsessed with the bass sound on the title track. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to try and get that sound. Flatwounds. After that I have no idea. Fuse
Thoughts? Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by sean on Mar 23, 2024 20:14:10 GMT -6
The secret is the regular band of musicians T Bone works with are some of the greatest musicians in the world.
This is also a Cowboy Jack Clement technique, is to have everyone in the room playing quietly with no headphones. T Bone has been known to do that as well. A great band in a great room (T Bone likes Sound Emporium A…which is a Jack Clement studio original and was built to record without headphones) can mix themselves without headphones. Everyone’s playing to a common time. Everyone’s forced to listen to each other and not have a totally different headphone mix from everyone else. With a talented band and the right style of music, it’s great. It works for a lot of what he does.
And probably what he’s talking about with “doubling” the bass is having upright bass and tic tac (baritone or octave guitar) playing the same part. Again, nothing new, they’ve been doing it in Nashville for 70 years. Originally it was to get the bass to be heard on AM and car stereos. For Alison Krauss and Robert Plant Dennis Crouch is playing upright and Viktor Krauss is playing 6 string bass.
If there’s a specific record or question you had I probably know or can find the answer…I work with everyone in that crew pretty regularly
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Post by winetree on Mar 23, 2024 20:40:53 GMT -6
I was a Professor at Citrus College in Azusa, Ca. teaching intermediate Recording techniques and Acoustics.
My Classroom was a $10 million recording complex featuring a Neve V72 and two Studer 820 24 track machines.
As a class guest speaker I brought in T-Bone Barnett. Before his speaking appearance, I put on a 24 track of the BeeGees "Staying Alive"
He did a mostly percussion mix of the song.
When asked, He didn't really answer any questions about recording or mixing. Just pushed up faders.
When he talked to my class, everybody had questions about recording.
His answers never answered the questions, answered only with syco babble. Nobody understood what he was talking about.
I had never met the man before and it left me wondering how he produced records other than sitting on the couch.
Just my experience.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2024 22:23:12 GMT -6
I don’t know the interview but he produced the Joe Henry album Fuse. In 1999. Lanois mixed some of it, but I have become somewhat obsessed with the bass sound on the title track. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to try and get that sound. Flatwounds. After that I have no idea. Fuse
Thoughts? Cheers, Geoff Huh... so maybe he really did invent a "new dimension of sound", I'll take a listen to that one! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2024 22:26:25 GMT -6
I was a Professor at Citrus College in Azusa, Ca. teaching intermediate Recording techniques and Acoustics. My Classroom was a $10 million recording complex featuring a Neve V72 and two Studer 820 24 track machines. As a class guest speaker I brought in T-Bone Barnett. Before his speaking appearance, I put on a 24 track of the BeeGees "Staying Alive" He did a mostly percussion mix of the song. When asked, He didn't really answer any questions about recording or mixing. Just pushed up faders. When he talked to my class, everybody had questions about recording. His answers never answered the questions, answered only with syco babble. Nobody understood what he was talking about. I had never met the man before and it left me wondering how he produced records other than sitting on the couch. Just my experience. Haha... that's a lot of what this interview is like. It really reminds me of Dylan's bizarre takes on his own theories of life and music. Don't get me wrong, I love Dylan and I love reading his bizarre takes on his own theories of life and music. Sounds like T-Bone has been sitting at the feet of the master when it comes to spinning bizarre stories instead of answering questions. Also, his interview in Behind The Glass is a great read. It's just kind of like... what is this guy on about? |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2024 22:31:02 GMT -6
The secret is T Bone regular band of musicians he works with are some of the greatest musicians in the world. This is also a Cowboy Jack Clement technique, is to have everyone in the room playing quietly with no headphones. T Bone has been known to do that as well. A great band in a great room (T Bone likes Sound Emporium A…which is a Jack Clement studio original and was built to record without headphones) can mix themselves without headphones. Everyone’s playing to a common time. Everyone’s forced to listen to each other and not have a totally different headphone mix from everyone else. With a talented band and the right style of music, it’s great. It works for a lot of what he does. And probably what he’s talking about with “doubling” the bass is having upright bass and tic tac (baritone or octave guitar) playing the same part. Again, nothing new, they’ve been doing it in Nashville for 70 years. Originally it was to get the bass to be heard on AM and car stereos. For Alison Krauss and Robert Plant Dennis Crouch is playing upright and Viktor Krauss is playing 6 string bass. If there’s a specific record or question you had I probably know or can find the answer…I work with everyone in that crew pretty regularly I will definitely take you up on that. I'm building a little T-Bone list to see if I can figure out what in the world he's saying. I gotta get a couple of these albums in a lossless format and play them on my living room speakers. But yeah, he specifically mentions doubling upright with 6 string bass playing octaves. That just seems like a LOT of low frequency information. Although I guess it depends on where the six string is in terms of level. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 23, 2024 22:33:27 GMT -6
Sorry if this is a daft question but is this our Tbone as in Tbone81? If not, any vid's examples, songs etc.?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2024 23:10:04 GMT -6
Sorry if this is a daft question but is this our Tbone as in Tbone81? If not, any vid's examples, songs etc.? T-Bone Burnett is a Texas based producer who is famous for Americana type stuff but has worked on a ton of things. I'd say he hit the mainstream consciousness with the soundtrack for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? because it was such a sensation but people heard him doing Counting Crows, Elvis Costello, Wallflowers, and a million other things even if they didn't know it. More recently he's worked Allison Kraus, Brandi Carlisle, and a bunch of stuff in that world of things. He was also a guitar player with Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue tour in the 70's. But I'd say he's most known these days for being the standard bearer for old school recording. People in a room. Real instruments. No headphones. Complete takes. Etc. etc. How much of that is true or not is beyond my knowledge, but that's how I think of him. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 24, 2024 0:24:09 GMT -6
Sorry if this is a daft question but is this our Tbone as in Tbone81? If not, any vid's examples, songs etc.? The Robert Plant, Alisson Krauss record has been a huge influence on me. Not so much soundwise but just getting people in the same room, playing live, it was so refreshing to hear when it came out, such a stark contrast to what was coming out at the time. And the playing on that record is just so tasteful. |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 24, 2024 0:40:17 GMT -6
With T-Bone...
It's A-1. Even when the steaks are high.
Chris
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Post by sean on Mar 24, 2024 6:33:02 GMT -6
The secret is T Bone regular band of musicians he works with are some of the greatest musicians in the world. This is also a Cowboy Jack Clement technique, is to have everyone in the room playing quietly with no headphones. T Bone has been known to do that as well. A great band in a great room (T Bone likes Sound Emporium A…which is a Jack Clement studio original and was built to record without headphones) can mix themselves without headphones. Everyone’s playing to a common time. Everyone’s forced to listen to each other and not have a totally different headphone mix from everyone else. With a talented band and the right style of music, it’s great. It works for a lot of what he does. And probably what he’s talking about with “doubling” the bass is having upright bass and tic tac (baritone or octave guitar) playing the same part. Again, nothing new, they’ve been doing it in Nashville for 70 years. Originally it was to get the bass to be heard on AM and car stereos. For Alison Krauss and Robert Plant Dennis Crouch is playing upright and Viktor Krauss is playing 6 string bass. If there’s a specific record or question you had I probably know or can find the answer…I work with everyone in that crew pretty regularly I will definitely take you up on that. I'm building a little T-Bone list to see if I can figure out what in the world he's saying. I gotta get a couple of these albums in a lossless format and play them on my living room speakers. But yeah, he specifically mentions doubling upright with 6 string bass playing octaves. That just seems like a LOT of low frequency information. Although I guess it depends on where the six string is in terms of level. There’s not a lot of low end in the traditional “tic tac” bass sound. Usually it’s palm muted and played with a pick so you are really only getting the “attack” of the note. You’re really using it to get a lot of midrange, while the upright bass has the low fundamentals. Dennis Crouch uses gut strings, which have a nice “thud” and he’s incredible at controlling the sustain of the notes to where they aren’t taking up too much space for too long. That’s really the key to bluegrass or traditional country bass…if you play a “1-5” (root fifth) pattern or are playing an upbeat song without controlling the resonance and sustain of the instrument, it’s a low frequency nightmare. A lot of players, especially in the studio, will dampen there bass with a mute or a pillow under the bridge, or put their knee/leg against the back to cut down on some of the sustain. Not much different from a kick drum…you don’t always want that sustain hanging over mucking things up. Also…look up the credits for Dennis Crouch and Viktor Krauss. They are two of the most accomplished bassist in Nashville, not just country and bluegrass but also jazz and pop. Also, to answer another comment, T Bone is an accomplished musicians in his own right, but as a producer he’s also all about the vibe. He’s like Rick Rubin, but he can actually play guitar. And, while he might not be able to answer technical questions or “mix” a song, that’s not really his job. His job is to manage the personalities in the room and be the person everyone looks to when they ask “how’s it sounding” and everyone respects the answer. And the band of musicians he’s put together don’t need a lot of direction. I mean, with Stuart Duncan, you just say “play the fiddle” and it’s going to be amazing. He just so happens to be a great mandolin, banjo, and guitar plays as well. But again, that’s another job of a producer…getting the right group of musicians in the room for the project. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Mar 24, 2024 17:00:44 GMT -6
I will definitely take you up on that. I'm building a little T-Bone list to see if I can figure out what in the world he's saying. I gotta get a couple of these albums in a lossless format and play them on my living room speakers. But yeah, he specifically mentions doubling upright with 6 string bass playing octaves. That just seems like a LOT of low frequency information. Although I guess it depends on where the six string is in terms of level. There’s not a lot of low end in the traditional “tic tac” bass sound. Usually it’s palm muted and played with a pick so you are really only getting the “attack” of the note. You’re really using it to get a lot of midrange, while the upright bass has the low fundamentals. Dennis Crouch uses gut strings, which have a nice “thud” and he’s incredible at controlling the sustain of the notes to where they aren’t taking up too much space for too long. That’s really the key to bluegrass or traditional country bass…if you play a “1-5” (root fifth) pattern or are playing an upbeat song without controlling the resonance and sustain of the instrument, it’s a low frequency nightmare. A lot of players, especially in the studio, will dampen there bass with a mute or a pillow under the bridge, or put their knee/leg against the back to cut down on some of the sustain. Not much different from a kick drum…you don’t always want that sustain hanging over mucking things up. Also…look up the credits for Dennis Crouch and Viktor Krauss. They are two of the most accomplished bassist in Nashville, not just country and bluegrass but also jazz and pop. Also, to answer another comment, T Bone is an accomplished musicians in his own right, but as a producer he’s also all about the vibe. He’s like Rick Rubin, but he can actually play guitar. And, while he might not be able to answer technical questions or “mix” a song, that’s not really his job. His job is to manage the personalities in the room and be the person everyone looks to when they ask “how’s it sounding” and everyone respects the answer. And the band of musicians he’s put together don’t need a lot of direction. I mean, with Stuart Duncan, you just say “play the fiddle” and it’s going to be amazing. He just so happens to be a great mandolin, banjo, and guitar plays as well. But again, that’s another job of a producer…getting the right group of musicians in the room for the project. This is a great post. I’d just add that despite his experience I doubt Dylan really knows much about engineering etc. so I wouldn’t take his self obsessed word for it. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 24, 2024 18:46:56 GMT -6
Yup. A great bass player / bass part is often more about the holes between the notes than the notes themselves.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 24, 2024 21:26:50 GMT -6
If you’ve ever taken your thumb and softly “thumped” a string close to the bridge on a bass guitar while gently muting, and compared it to using your finger In a more standard position near the pickups, you’ll immediately hear the low end difference. Same thing with gently popping a bass drum and pulling the beater off the head vs hitting it hard and burrying the beater. The low end information is not only substantially different, but the entire tone changes in an incredible way.
I think you need to just have the ability to read between the lines with T-bone. Dude has probably been a part of more of my favorite records than anybody else in the industry. I enjoy the cryptic speak, he’s got a great interview on the Marc Maron podcast. Check it out for sure.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 24, 2024 22:36:30 GMT -6
If you’ve ever taken your thumb and softly “thumped” a string close to the bridge on a bass guitar while gently muting, and compared it to using your finger In a more standard position near the pickups, you’ll immediately hear the low end difference. Same thing with gently popping a bass drum and pulling the beater off the head vs hitting it hard and burrying the beater. The low end information is not only substantially different, but the entire tone changes in an incredible way. I think you need to just have the ability to read between the lines with T-bone. Dude has probably been a part of more of my favorite records than anybody else in the industry. I enjoy the cryptic speak, he’s got a great interview on the Marc Maron podcast. Check it out for sure. For sure. I love his interviews. Watched "new basement tapes" documentary last night. Seems like a great dude to work with. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 25, 2024 13:48:25 GMT -6
If you’ve ever taken your thumb and softly “thumped” a string close to the bridge on a bass guitar while gently muting, and compared it to using your finger In a more standard position near the pickups, you’ll immediately hear the low end difference. Same thing with gently popping a bass drum and pulling the beater off the head vs hitting it hard and burrying the beater. The low end information is not only substantially different, but the entire tone changes in an incredible way. I think you need to just have the ability to read between the lines with T-bone. Dude has probably been a part of more of my favorite records than anybody else in the industry. I enjoy the cryptic speak, he’s got a great interview on the Marc Maron podcast. Check it out for sure. For sure. I love his interviews. Watched "new basement tapes" documentary last night. Seems like a great dude to work with. Listened to the Marc Maron interview last night. Great interview. I'll have to lots to talk to T-Bone about when one day we meet and are instantly best friends. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 25, 2024 15:49:15 GMT -6
If you’ve ever taken your thumb and softly “thumped” a string close to the bridge on a bass guitar while gently muting, and compared it to using your finger In a more standard position near the pickups, you’ll immediately hear the low end difference. Same thing with gently popping a bass drum and pulling the beater off the head vs hitting it hard and burrying the beater. The low end information is not only substantially different, but the entire tone changes in an incredible way. I think you need to just have the ability to read between the lines with T-bone. Dude has probably been a part of more of my favorite records than anybody else in the industry. I enjoy the cryptic speak, he’s got a great interview on the Marc Maron podcast. Check it out for sure. For sure. I love his interviews. Watched "new basement tapes" documentary last night. Seems like a great dude to work with. I just watched a couple weeks ago. Cool project. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 25, 2024 15:52:50 GMT -6
For sure. I love his interviews. Watched "new basement tapes" documentary last night. Seems like a great dude to work with. I just watched a couple weeks ago. Cool project. It was very interesting seeing all the different vocal mics used and where. They had no problem just throwing up a 58 when they were in the main room, in fact that was the most common mic used when they were in the big room. But then in the iso booths it was all manner of amazing microphones. That kind of surprised me because I figured T Bone to be one of these dudes who would go for "good bleed" versus "minimize bleed". But they clearly prioritized isolation over mic tone for certain tracks. Even on lead vocals. Also, Jim James brings new meaning to the term "eating the mic" on whatever that dynamic was he was tracking live with. He literally had his lips over the mic at one point. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 27, 2024 8:23:49 GMT -6
Sorry if this is a daft question but is this our Tbone as in Tbone81? If not, any vid's examples, songs etc.? T-Bone Burnett is a Texas based producer who is famous for Americana type stuff but has worked on a ton of things. I'd say he hit the mainstream consciousness with the soundtrack for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? because it was such a sensation but people heard him doing Counting Crows, Elvis Costello, Wallflowers, and a million other things even if they didn't know it. More recently he's worked Allison Kraus, Brandi Carlisle, and a bunch of stuff in that world of things. He was also a guitar player with Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue tour in the 70's. But I'd say he's most known these days for being the standard bearer for old school recording. People in a room. Real instruments. No headphones. Complete takes. Etc. etc. How much of that is true or not is beyond my knowledge, but that's how I think of him. Ever seen the documentary on the Rolling Thunder Revue? It's worth watching. There are some pretty great live versions of Dylan songs from that era (late 60s to mid 70s Dylan being the best Dylan, IMO). I also enjoyed the discussion at various points about Scarlet Rivera, the violin player in Dylan's band. She was apparently dating Gene Simmons at the time, and would sometimes walk around with a sword strapped to her side. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 27, 2024 9:18:13 GMT -6
He's a producer.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 27, 2024 13:23:58 GMT -6
Yep. 2 Kids. (Nick and Sophie to be exact) He also prefers Tweed. To Kiss and tell.  Chris |
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Post by ironinthepath on Mar 27, 2024 14:20:10 GMT -6
I started to get into recording around the time the Wallflowers released their album (ok, it’s basically studio musicians and Jakob Dylan) Bringing Down the Horse. To this day I still use One Headlight and 6th Avenue Heartache as reference tracks. I had given the credit to Tom Lord-Alge (and the musicians, including Mike Campbell)…. But maybe I need to give more weight to T-Bone.
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Post by jmoose on Mar 27, 2024 14:59:30 GMT -6
I don’t know the interview but he produced the Joe Henry album Fuse. In 1999. Lanois mixed some of it, but I have become somewhat obsessed with the bass sound on the title track. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to try and get that sound. Flatwounds. After that I have no idea. Fuse
Thoughts? Cheers, Geoff Really, really enjoyed that track. That's an 'ashbory bass' if I've ever heard one. The growl on the first couple 3 pickup notes is the giveaway. And the deep sustain. Fairly unique instrument... I've flirted with buying one for years. Hadn't realized until I saw this a few minutes ago there are modern repros banging about. Nice look at one here, and what makes it what it is... acoustic / electric short scale fretless. Not a great player and the audios completely blown out but gets the point across... you'll either hear it... or 'ya won't. Overall that track kinda reminds me of Emmylou's Wrecking Ball... the overall space...depth... its so open & naked. And that big lush Lanois reverb. What WAS he using in those days?! There's some ashbory bass on that record too. Overall - doubling bass parts with two different instruments is fairly common. Sting was doing that w/ Hugh Padgham and the Police... legend has it Synchronicity is electric (P bass? spector?) doubled with upright. Not the song. The whole record. Its so obvious now when I listen to it. That's not all synth bass, and its not "effect bass" - like a TC spatializer. Not all of it. |
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Post by geoff738 on Mar 27, 2024 15:07:08 GMT -6
I don’t know the interview but he produced the Joe Henry album Fuse. In 1999. Lanois mixed some of it, but I have become somewhat obsessed with the bass sound on the title track. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to try and get that sound. Flatwounds. After that I have no idea. Fuse
Thoughts? Cheers, Geoff Really, really enjoyed that track. That's an 'ashbory bass' if I've ever heard one. The growl on the first couple 3 pickup notes is the giveaway. And the deep sustain. Fairly unique instrument... I've flirted with buying one for years. Hadn't realized until I saw this a few minutes ago there are modern repros banging about. Nice look at one here, and what makes it what it is... acoustic / electric short scale fretless. Not a great player and the audios completely blown out but gets the point across... you'll either hear it... or 'ya won't. Overall that track kinda reminds me of Emmylou's Wrecking Ball... the overall space...depth... its so open & naked. And that big lush Lanois reverb. What WAS he using in those days?! There's some ashbory bass on that record too. Overall - doubling bass parts with two different instruments is fairly common. Sting was doing that w/ Hugh Padgham and the Police... legend has it Synchronicity is electric (P bass? spector?) doubled with upright. Not the song. The whole record. Its so obvious now when I listen to it. That's not all synth bass, and its not "effect bass" - like a TC spatializer. Not all of it. Interesting! I know Lanois was pretty deep into the H9000 for a while. Cheers, Geoff |
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