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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 12:25:40 GMT -6
Hi! I'm in the process of moving from a 2012 Mac Pro tower to 2022 Mac Studio M1 Max. It came with OS X Sonoma but I had to downgrade back to Monterey in order to get it to talk to my Symphony Mk1 interface. I've got everything installed and working but I've noticed the sound is different. It's more "digitized" and "one dimensional" for lack of better terms. It also seems lacking in low end. I actually performed a test setup to see if I was crazy and setup my old 2012 Mac Pro connected to the Symphony via USB which allowed me to quickly A/B the two computers with the same audio interface and the difference was real. Has anyone else experienced this with Monterey? Did it improve with the next OS update, Ventura? Very curious to see if anyone else has experience anything similar.
Thanks,
Cade
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Post by explorer on Mar 6, 2024 12:53:24 GMT -6
How are you connecting it to the new computer? Does it sound the same if you use USB?
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 12:57:38 GMT -6
How are you connecting it to the new computer? Does it sound the same if you use USB? I’m connected to a Symphony 64 pcie card that is installed in an external thunderbolt chassis. I can check it running USB helps but ultimately I need it to work via Symphony 64 card since the USB mode is limited to 16 I/O |
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Post by noob on Mar 6, 2024 13:02:52 GMT -6
I haven't had that issue at all with my M1 Mac Studio. I actually noticed the quality sounded a lot better. This sounds like a compatibility issue with the interface itself.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:26:01 GMT -6
I haven't had that issue at all with my M1 Mac Studio. I actually noticed the quality sounded a lot better. This sounds like a compatibility issue with the interface itself. that's possible. I also tested USB just now and it's not any different. Ultimately, I don't want the quality to sound "better" or "worse." haha I want it to sound exactly the same. The OS shouldn't be changing the sound, as far as I'm concerned. If you noticed an improvement then it was probably that your previous OS was problematic. |
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Post by notneeson on Mar 6, 2024 13:29:55 GMT -6
I haven't had that issue at all with my M1 Mac Studio. I actually noticed the quality sounded a lot better. This sounds like a compatibility issue with the interface itself. that's possible. I also tested USB just now and it's not any different. Ultimately, I don't want the quality to sound "better" or "worse." haha I want it to sound exactly the same. The OS shouldn't be changing the sound, as far as I'm concerned. If you noticed an improvement then it was probably that your previous OS was problematic. Agreed that the computer itself should not be impacting the sound. That said, some setting somewhere could have changed inadvertently? For sound quality issues I'd maybe look to clocking? Hard to say. |
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Post by noob on Mar 6, 2024 13:34:32 GMT -6
The computer can absolutely impact the sound because of available CPU when running plugins. Going from my old 2015 Mac to the M1 I noticed a positive difference. Maybe it wasn't a huge difference, but everything just ran smoother.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:43:00 GMT -6
The computer can absolutely impact the sound because of available CPU when running plugins. Going from my old 2015 Mac to the M1 I noticed a positive difference. Maybe it wasn't a huge difference, but everything just ran smoother. Definitely, it should run smoother. I’m talking about the quality of sound sound playing back a stereo WAV file and listening. No DAW or anything, just for context |
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:45:46 GMT -6
that's possible. I also tested USB just now and it's not any different. Ultimately, I don't want the quality to sound "better" or "worse." haha I want it to sound exactly the same. The OS shouldn't be changing the sound, as far as I'm concerned. If you noticed an improvement then it was probably that your previous OS was problematic. Agreed that the computer itself should not be impacting the sound. That said, some setting somewhere could have changed inadvertently? For sound quality issues I'd maybe look to clocking? Hard to say. You may be right. I’m currently awaiting a response from Apogee to see if they’ve had any reports. I know that the last updated driver for the Symphony 64 card was Big Sur, so that may be the issue. If I were connected via a Pro Tools Hd card I suspect I may not notice a difference since pro tools updates those drivers with every Os update. That’s my only theory as of now |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2024 13:46:58 GMT -6
I went from 2012 mbp i7 over tbolt to Aurora n to m1 mini, didn’t notice any sonic difference, did notice processing difference.
I’d make certain you have all compatible softwares, sounds like you are mixing matching a fair bit. Are there not more up to date drivers for your symphony?
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2024 13:49:17 GMT -6
Big sur? How is the card doing a handshake with your m1? Your card isn’t certified for silicon or m1 ?
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:50:41 GMT -6
I went from 2012 mbp i7 over tbolt to Aurora n to m1 mini, didn’t notice any sonic difference, did notice processing difference. I’d make certain you have all compatible softwares, sounds like you are mixing matching a fair bit. Are there not more up to date drivers for your symphony? I think the Mk1 symphony’s are not supported any longer. I’m sure the Mk II you could update but I just really wanted to avoid the cost if possible. I’m perfectly happy with the Mk 1 for now if I can just get it to play nice with the new computer |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2024 13:51:41 GMT -6
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:52:07 GMT -6
Big sur? How is the card doing a handshake with your m1? Your card isn’t certified for silicon or m1 ? It’s not officially supported by Apogee for any OS past Big Sur but they talked me through the settings that would make it work with Monterey, which is what I’m on now |
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:53:00 GMT -6
I tried downgrading but you can’t downgrade to an earlier OS than what the computer was shipped with and mine was shipped with Monterey |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2024 13:55:32 GMT -6
If you have a call into apple, ask what if you got an external drive made it your boot drive and put big sur on it?
If so, wipe the m1 drive or partition it so you sequester it’s os, and use rest of drive space as you want.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2024 13:58:22 GMT -6
Maybe reach out to mr macintosh, see if you could load big sur with open legacy patcher ?
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Post by svart on Mar 6, 2024 14:03:01 GMT -6
A computational process is a computational process. There is ZERO way that process changes between computers if the plugins and DAW are doing them the same way.
It's more than likely a setting that's different.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 14:04:38 GMT -6
Maybe reach out to mr macintosh, see if you could load big sur with open legacy patcher ? I’ve attempted to install Big Sur via an external boot drive and it wouldn’t allow it but I’m gonna look into this method for sure! Thanks for the tip |
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Post by explorer on Mar 6, 2024 14:11:08 GMT -6
A better route might be buying another interface to connect the Symphony to the Mac via ADAT. Something like an RME Digiface USB for example. That way you can run modern drivers etc.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 6, 2024 14:15:56 GMT -6
My hunch would be if there is a sonic difference it’s the driver.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 6, 2024 14:18:00 GMT -6
My hunch would be if there is a sonic difference it’s the driver. Defer to your experience across LOTS of commissioning, but I have personally not seen a driver part way function. Interesting. |
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Post by noob on Mar 6, 2024 14:26:28 GMT -6
A computational process is a computational process. There is ZERO way that process changes between computers if the plugins and DAW are doing them the same way. It's more than likely a setting that's different. If the CPU changes or the audio driver changes, that would not effect how the plugins and DAW process audio? I guess it's a mystery then why my M1 sounds better than my old Mac. Because it definitely does. Not sure, I'm def not an expert when it comes to computers. |
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 14:29:06 GMT -6
My hunch would be if there is a sonic difference it’s the driver. That’s my hunch too so that’s why I’m gonna try to finagle a way to install Big Sur since the apogee drivers should work as intended on that and I’ll worry about updating to a more modern OS later on whenever I feel like updating to the Mk II symphony. Or at least that’s my current plan unless Apogee comes back with another idea |
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Post by trappist on Mar 6, 2024 14:43:35 GMT -6
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