|
|
Post by enlav on Mar 9, 2024 11:25:46 GMT -6
I'd have to go back and watch that video again, but I do trust Matt with latency measurements. He knows what he's doing with that stuff. I think one of the biggest take home messages from that video was that IF Pro Tools is going to be your ONLY DAW, that might be a reason to go with Carbon but, IF Pro Tools is NOT going to be your only DAW, then you might want to consider the Apollo instead. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I want to say that that video was released before Luna was updated to include automatic DSP to native switching for plugins, which also moves the needle a bit. Oh definitely. I would even go so far as to say if someone isn't using Pro Tools exclusively (outside of, you know, some small little things or prepping for session conversion, so on and so on), you lose so much of the appeal of the Carbon.
Regarding the latency side of things, I'm not saying he's wrong, it's just one of those things I've really never paid much attention to on TDM/HDX unless there was something really wrong. But my use cases with HDX systems, in particular, have always been under the mindset of "we're here for the room, the mics, and maybe some cool outboard" so I'm probably only throwing on Dyn3 and EQ3 to reign things in when we need to for monitoring. Monitoring reverb when necessary, so sometimes I'm paying zero attention to plugin latency, especially if I'm familiar with the facility.
It just seems very surprising that the zero latency plugs for Native would have any impact on HDX. I'm due to go visit a colleague in a few weeks who has HDX, so I'll be sure to go check out the impact of various plugins. He's a waves guy, so if Waves is AAX-DSP, he'll have some of those I can check too.
|
|
|
|
Post by doubledog on Mar 9, 2024 11:26:14 GMT -6
Let me know where the cheap snakes are... that's going to be the title of my next album... or at least has to be a song. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 1:26:29 GMT -6
Cubase pro 13 delay compensation is perfection on every single aspect of application. Tracking, overdubbing, hardware inserts. I have sent extremely complex signal tests through extremely complex routings and the delay compensation system is 100% rock solid and 100% phase aligned. As it should be it’s only maths! That said, I never monitor through plug-ins or my DAW for tracking cue sends as I have an analog monitoring rig for that purpose, as I wish to absolute zero latency monitoring whilst tracking the same as an actual analog mixing desk. In my experience of HDX and tracking bands, HDX acts as an on board digital mixer (in effect) and provides extremely low latency monitor cues - it’s fantastic for that application avoiding the need for an analog monitor mixer. Cubase’s hybrid engine means over dubbing VI keyboards into a full mix with hundreds of plug-ins I still have extremely low latency for the overdub - Cubase has an extremely effective hybrid audio engine. I don’t actually see the advantage to Carbon in this respect other than of course it being a great interface and a great companion if you’re a Pro Tools DAW user. I have a good friend with Carbon and I think it’s an excellent solution for a PT user. I really couldn’t care less what I use, but I’ve now spent 20 years making the switch to PT. That’s 20 years of working in that daw day in day out (ok that’s a lie…not sure I’ve ever worked two days in a row…lol) I gave Cubase a go this last week and I mix stuff in it occasionally. But I’m just so slow. I’m sure I would speed up, but there’s nothing that pisses me off when I get stuck in another daw and all I can think is “shit, I wish I had done this in PT.” Not because Cubase sucks, but because Pro Tools is my native language. Honestly - THAT analogy is the best I’ve heard for DAWS. I was born in Cubaslandia, but moved to ProToolia when I was 5. I love the Cubasian people and love to visit - but ProToolsia is my home now and that’s where I’m raising my children, Latencya and Click. Can I just say…this is a masterpiece. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Mar 10, 2024 3:25:22 GMT -6
Cubase pro 13 delay compensation is perfection on every single aspect of application. Tracking, overdubbing, hardware inserts. I have sent extremely complex signal tests through extremely complex routings and the delay compensation system is 100% rock solid and 100% phase aligned. As it should be it’s only maths! That said, I never monitor through plug-ins or my DAW for tracking cue sends as I have an analog monitoring rig for that purpose, as I wish to absolute zero latency monitoring whilst tracking the same as an actual analog mixing desk. In my experience of HDX and tracking bands, HDX acts as an on board digital mixer (in effect) and provides extremely low latency monitor cues - it’s fantastic for that application avoiding the need for an analog monitor mixer. Cubase’s hybrid engine means over dubbing VI keyboards into a full mix with hundreds of plug-ins I still have extremely low latency for the overdub - Cubase has an extremely effective hybrid audio engine. I don’t actually see the advantage to Carbon in this respect other than of course it being a great interface and a great companion if you’re a Pro Tools DAW user. I have a good friend with Carbon and I think it’s an excellent solution for a PT user. I really couldn’t care less what I use, but I’ve now spent 20 years making the switch to PT. That’s 20 years of working in that daw day in day out (ok that’s a lie…not sure I’ve ever worked two days in a row…lol) I gave Cubase a go this last week and I mix stuff in it occasionally. But I’m just so slow. I’m sure I would speed up, but there’s nothing that pisses me off when I get stuck in another daw and all I can think is “shit, I wish I had done this in PT.” Not because Cubase sucks, but because Pro Tools is my native language. Honestly - THAT analogy is the best I’ve heard for DAWS. I was born in Cubaslandia, but moved to ProToolia when I was 5. I love the Cubasian people and love to visit - but ProToolsia is my home now and that’s where I’m raising my children, Latencya and Click. I was a Logic “power user” user for 20 years. I used to be a beta tester for Emagic. My musical life revolved around Logic and of course I was very fast using it. I then worked on an album with someone who had Cubase and I came to the conclusion that Cubase was far superior for the use of MIDI and VI’s and the audio engine had just had a ground up rewrite (taken from the flagship Nuendo) So I made the switch. It was a painful slog I can tell you, the instinct was always to go back to Logic on Mac (my previous home) But I’ve always had a very determined stoicism to my approach to stuff and I committed to sticking it with it. Now I’m using Cubase Pro 13 on a completely silent super duper PC workstation I had built for me and I honestly feel it’s been a pay off, as the speed and stability has been a dream I’ve long wanted - creativity by almost instant thought - modern computers are so unbelievably fast these days - everything loads like switching a TV channel. So I’m not saying anyone should switch to anything. But it is a journey I took myself and so I know how it feels, it’s very difficult to push though a change like this - and most people never do and use one DAW for their entire career. I couldn’t do it again, not at 60 years old! |
|
|
|
Post by Shadowk on Mar 10, 2024 6:49:37 GMT -6
I'd have to go back and watch that video again, but I do trust Matt with latency measurements. He knows what he's doing with that stuff. I think one of the biggest take home messages from that video was that IF Pro Tools is going to be your ONLY DAW, that might be a reason to go with Carbon but, IF Pro Tools is NOT going to be your only DAW, then you might want to consider the Apollo instead. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I want to say that that video was released before Luna was updated to include automatic DSP to native switching for plugins, which also moves the needle a bit. Subspace posted the latencies already, just be smart with it and it will be far quicker than Native. If the plan is to stack then yeah, it can be far worse.
Oh if Pro Tools wasn't my main DAW and I didn't have some outboard HW I wouldn't touch Carbon with someone else's barge pole. Then again I wouldn't be interested in an Apollo either, I'd go Metric Halo or something..
|
|
|
|
Post by Shadowk on Mar 10, 2024 7:07:10 GMT -6
I then worked on an album with someone who had Cubase and I came to the conclusion that Cubase was far superior for the use of MIDI and VI’s and the audio engine had just had a ground up rewrite (taken from the flagship Nuendo) So I made the switch. It was a painful slog I can tell you, the instinct was always to go back to Logic on Mac (my previous home) But I’ve always had a very determined stoicism to my approach to stuff and I committed to sticking it with it. Now I’m using Cubase Pro 13 on a completely silent super duper PC workstation I had built for me and I honestly feel it’s been a pay off, as the speed and stability has been a dream I’ve long wanted - creativity by almost instant thought - modern computers are so unbelievably fast these days - everything loads like switching a TV channel. So I’m not saying anyone should switch to anything. But it is a journey I took myself and so I know how it feels, it’s very difficult to push though a change like this - and most people never do and use one DAW for their entire career. Ironically I must be the only person who really likes Pro Tools & Sibelius for composition and I'd probably use Cubase for Mixing  .. Although you're not the only person to use it, in audio engineering it was mainly Pro Tools but they made everyone learn music theory and composition with Cubase. Out of all the things we buy a DAW is far from the most expensive and you can trial it for 60 days anyway. We get it, you like Cubase..
I'm renaming the country to Protalia and it certainly has it's issues but I know where I stand with it. I've barely got the right level of health or time to make music, the last thing I want to be doing is re-learning a DAW.
|
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2024 7:33:58 GMT -6
I'd have to go back and watch that video again, but I do trust Matt with latency measurements. He knows what he's doing with that stuff. I think one of the biggest take home messages from that video was that IF Pro Tools is going to be your ONLY DAW, that might be a reason to go with Carbon but, IF Pro Tools is NOT going to be your only DAW, then you might want to consider the Apollo instead. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I want to say that that video was released before Luna was updated to include automatic DSP to native switching for plugins, which also moves the needle a bit. Subspace posted the latencies already, just be smart with it and it will be far quicker than Native. If the plan is to stack then yeah, it can be far worse.
Oh if Pro Tools wasn't my main DAW and I didn't have some outboard HW I wouldn't touch Carbon with someone else's barge pole. Then again I wouldn't be interested in an Apollo either, I'd go Metric Halo or something..
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Mar 10, 2024 7:49:09 GMT -6
I then worked on an album with someone who had Cubase and I came to the conclusion that Cubase was far superior for the use of MIDI and VI’s and the audio engine had just had a ground up rewrite (taken from the flagship Nuendo) So I made the switch. It was a painful slog I can tell you, the instinct was always to go back to Logic on Mac (my previous home) But I’ve always had a very determined stoicism to my approach to stuff and I committed to sticking it with it. Now I’m using Cubase Pro 13 on a completely silent super duper PC workstation I had built for me and I honestly feel it’s been a pay off, as the speed and stability has been a dream I’ve long wanted - creativity by almost instant thought - modern computers are so unbelievably fast these days - everything loads like switching a TV channel. So I’m not saying anyone should switch to anything. But it is a journey I took myself and so I know how it feels, it’s very difficult to push though a change like this - and most people never do and use one DAW for their entire career. Ironically I must be the only person who really likes Pro Tools & Sibelius for composition and I'd probably use Cubase for Mixing .. Although you're not the only person to use it, in audio engineering it was mainly Pro Tools but they made everyone learn music theory and composition with Cubase. Out of all the things we buy a DAW is far from the most expensive and you can trial it for 60 days anyway. We get it, you like Cubase..
I'm renaming the country to Protalia and it certainly has it's issues but I know where I stand with it. I've barely got the right level of health or time to make music, the last thing I want to be doing is re-learning a DAW.
Yep, you’re the only person  I use E drums and the drum editor in Cubase is unique and fantastic. Also the new MIDI remote manager has been a game changer in terms of workflow anything and everything can become a remote control for Cubase - it takes literally seconds to nap things. The big step forward for me has been Stream Deck XL - the support in Cubase is fabulous and my already fast workflow has become lightening fast - which is how I like to work The VI handling in Cubase is great too because of its highly effective hybrid audio engine. The only thing I’m waiting on is the full intergration of Dorico. Mixing is Cubase is good - I think overall Pro Tools is a better platform for mixing due to its amazing control surface integration - if you can afford the expensive control surfaces like the S6. But Cubase does the job perfectly and sounds identical to any other DAW. The hardware inserts on Cubase are very fast to use as they’re automatically compensated, which is a big deal for me as I move more to a hybrid approach. Overall, I do think Cubase is hard to beat for a well healed project studio. For a commercial studio, Pro Tools all day everyday - it’s just a far more professional solution on every level except MIDI and VI’s. But in a commercial studio generally it’s tracking real instruments and importing MIDI elements (turned to audio) made in other DAW’s like Ableton, Logic or Cubase. |
|
|
|
Post by Shadowk on Mar 10, 2024 8:06:36 GMT -6
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that. Cool, you're not going to buy it so there's no issue. Carbon fits a certain niche and that's a bit obvious, I don't want a full HDX rig because not only is it expensive but it's also getting a bit long in the tooth and on top of that I'd have no use for it anyway due to the amount of HW I have, even from an effects standpoint. What I require is something that integrates deeply with Pro Tools, has miminal latency, can offload a few bits to DSP if required and let's me get on with recording no fuss. It does all of those things and after discounts a Carbon + Carbon Pre is a thousand more than an Aurora 16 TB3 in my local currency, for me it's like why not?
I do agree though, it is a "weird middle ground" but it's one that in this niche situation is the best choice. Obviously that may not work for a lot of people.. As for John, well unfortunately the Trinnov Nova supports ADAT and the D-Mon doesn't. If you need digital, yeah the Carbon really doesn't have many options and that does suck a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shadowk on Mar 10, 2024 8:08:46 GMT -6
Overall, I do think Cubase is hard to beat for a well healed project studio. If you're trying to sell me on Cubase it's not going to work, especially after I've just bought two Carbons  .. |
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Mar 10, 2024 8:52:44 GMT -6
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that. Cool, you're not going to buy it so there's no issue. Carbon fits a certain niche and that's a bit obvious, I don't want a full HDX rig because not only is it expensive but it's also getting a bit long in the tooth and on top of that I'd have no use for it anyway due to the amount of HW I have, even from an effects standpoint. What I require is something that integrates deeply with Pro Tools, has miminal latency, can offload a few bits to DSP if required and let's me get on with recording no fuss. It does all of those things and after discounts a Carbon + Carbon Pre is a thousand more than an Aurora 16 TB3 in my local currency, for me it's like why not?
I do agree though, it is a "weird middle ground" but it's one that in this niche situation is the best choice. Obviously that may not work for a lot of people.. As for John, well unfortunately the Trinnov Nova supports ADAT and the D-Mon doesn't. If you need digital, yeah the Carbon really doesn't have many options and that does suck a bit.
It seems like a huge oversight to not include a spdif or AES mirror for the main outs. So many interfaces have that now, so I'm not sure why Avid chose to not include that. I remember when the Lynx Hilo came out. I "think" it was the first interface to offer a dedicated monitor out. I remember, at the time, thinking how that was a great idea. Sure enough, over the years, a lot of other companies have adopted that approach. Seems like a no brainer these days. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 9:05:02 GMT -6
Subspace posted the latencies already, just be smart with it and it will be far quicker than Native. If the plan is to stack then yeah, it can be far worse. Oh if Pro Tools wasn't my main DAW and I didn't have some outboard HW I wouldn't touch Carbon with someone else's barge pole. Then again I wouldn't be interested in an Apollo either, I'd go Metric Halo or something..
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that. If I don’t keep it, there will be two main reasons: 1) the spdif ports only work within Pro Tools and not with other core audio…at least it said it wouldn’t mirror mon 1-2 via spdif outside of PT and 2) possibly the DA. I’ll be able to judge that more today when I get all my cables in, The lack of digital IO is baffling. Especially when it’s connecting avb. |
|
|
|
Post by Shadowk on Mar 10, 2024 9:29:56 GMT -6
That's where we differ. Carbon doesn't really do much of anything for me, unfortunately. I wanted it to though. I'd either be keeping my Apollo system with Luna, or moving to an HDX system with Lynx Aurora. Carbon is kind of a weird middle ground for me. As for John's situation, he seems to have other reasons beyond latency why the Carbon isn't working out for him. And he does use other DAWs than just PT, so there's that. If I don’t keep it, there will be two main reasons: 1) the spdif ports only work within Pro Tools and not with other core audio…at least it said it wouldn’t mirror mon 1-2 via spdif outside of PT and 2) possibly the DA. I’ll be able to judge that more today when I get all my cables in, The lack of digital IO is baffling. Especially when it’s connecting avb. Launchpad > Audio / Midi Setup > Pro Tools Carbon I/O: > Configure speakers > Set them to the ADAT channels. I'm using 9-10 which is actually 7-8 on the carbon to Monitor through my SSL.
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Mar 10, 2024 9:32:18 GMT -6
Overall, I do think Cubase is hard to beat for a well healed project studio. If you're trying to sell me on Cubase it's not going to work, especially after I've just bought two Carbons .. I’m not trying to sell anyone on anything. Cubase is perfect for me - that’s the only perspective I can speak from. |
|
|
|
Post by subspace on Mar 10, 2024 9:47:25 GMT -6
I'd have to go back and watch that video again, but I do trust Matt with latency measurements. He knows what he's doing with that stuff. I think one of the biggest take home messages from that video was that IF Pro Tools is going to be your ONLY DAW, that might be a reason to go with Carbon but, IF Pro Tools is NOT going to be your only DAW, then you might want to consider the Apollo instead. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I want to say that that video was released before Luna was updated to include automatic DSP to native switching for plugins, which also moves the needle a bit. Oh definitely. I would even go so far as to say if someone isn't using Pro Tools exclusively (outside of, you know, some small little things or prepping for session conversion, so on and so on), you lose so much of the appeal of the Carbon.
Regarding the latency side of things, I'm not saying he's wrong, it's just one of those things I've really never paid much attention to on TDM/HDX unless there was something really wrong. But my use cases with HDX systems, in particular, have always been under the mindset of "we're here for the room, the mics, and maybe some cool outboard" so I'm probably only throwing on Dyn3 and EQ3 to reign things in when we need to for monitoring. Monitoring reverb when necessary, so sometimes I'm paying zero attention to plugin latency, especially if I'm familiar with the facility.
It just seems very surprising that the zero latency plugs for Native would have any impact on HDX. I'm due to go visit a colleague in a few weeks who has HDX, so I'll be sure to go check out the impact of various plugins. He's a waves guy, so if Waves is AAX-DSP, he'll have some of those I can check too.
Zero latency plug-ins on native just fit within the minimum buffer to run on a native DAW, they don't have less latency than an AAX DSP plug-in on HDX. Generally, any HDX plug-in that displays 10-34 samples of delay will show as 0 samples when run in native mode due to the buffers native processing require. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Mar 10, 2024 10:41:38 GMT -6
Cool, you're not going to buy it so there's no issue. Carbon fits a certain niche and that's a bit obvious, I don't want a full HDX rig because not only is it expensive but it's also getting a bit long in the tooth and on top of that I'd have no use for it anyway due to the amount of HW I have, even from an effects standpoint. What I require is something that integrates deeply with Pro Tools, has miminal latency, can offload a few bits to DSP if required and let's me get on with recording no fuss. It does all of those things and after discounts a Carbon + Carbon Pre is a thousand more than an Aurora 16 TB3 in my local currency, for me it's like why not?
I do agree though, it is a "weird middle ground" but it's one that in this niche situation is the best choice. Obviously that may not work for a lot of people.. As for John, well unfortunately the Trinnov Nova supports ADAT and the D-Mon doesn't. If you need digital, yeah the Carbon really doesn't have many options and that does suck a bit.
It seems like a huge oversight to not include a spdif or AES mirror for the main outs. So many interfaces have that now, so I'm not sure why Avid chose to not include that. I remember when the Lynx Hilo came out. I "think" it was the first interface to offer a dedicated monitor out. I remember, at the time, thinking how that was a great idea. Sure enough, over the years, a lot of other companies have adopted that approach. Seems like a no brainer these days. Yes, when I looked at Carbon I was surprised to see it had no professional AES connection like an RME Fireface III for example. That's a make or break for me, as I use a HEDD 192, Avocet and an AES patchbay. Everything else about the Carbon is great though. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 11:05:26 GMT -6
If I don’t keep it, there will be two main reasons: 1) the spdif ports only work within Pro Tools and not with other core audio…at least it said it wouldn’t mirror mon 1-2 via spdif outside of PT and 2) possibly the DA. I’ll be able to judge that more today when I get all my cables in, The lack of digital IO is baffling. Especially when it’s connecting avb. Launchpad > Audio / Midi Setup > Pro Tools Carbon I/O: > Configure speakers > Set them to the ADAT channels. I'm using 9-10 which is actually 7-8 on the carbon to Monitor through my SSL.
I need SPDIF to connect to the Trinnov. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 11:06:55 GMT -6
It seems like a huge oversight to not include a spdif or AES mirror for the main outs. So many interfaces have that now, so I'm not sure why Avid chose to not include that. I remember when the Lynx Hilo came out. I "think" it was the first interface to offer a dedicated monitor out. I remember, at the time, thinking how that was a great idea. Sure enough, over the years, a lot of other companies have adopted that approach. Seems like a no brainer these days. Yes, when I looked at Carbon I was surprised to see it had no professional AES connection like an RME Fireface III for example. That's a make or break for me, as I use a HEDD 192, Avocet and an AES patchbay. Everything else about the Carbon is great though. Is it? I’m gonna play a lot more today, but this is so close to being a great solution for me…but with some major drawbacks. |
|
|
|
Post by Shadowk on Mar 10, 2024 11:12:10 GMT -6
Launchpad > Audio / Midi Setup > Pro Tools Carbon I/O: > Configure speakers > Set them to the ADAT channels. I'm using 9-10 which is actually 7-8 on the carbon to Monitor through my SSL.
I need SPDIF to connect to the Trinnov. I thought you had an ADAT to S/pdif converter? If not there are digital converters out there that will do it (plus AES) but that's just more cost, for now have you tried hooking the Carbon up to the Apollo over ADAT and using that for the Trinnov? |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 11:25:04 GMT -6
I need SPDIF to connect to the Trinnov. I thought you had an ADAT to S/pdif converter? If not there are digital converters out there that will do it (plus AES) but that's just more cost, for now have you tried hooking the Carbon up to the Apollo over ADAT and using that for the Trinnov? It was an either/or for me. Carbon or Apollo/Burl. I did get it working but it’s a damn flimsy solution. 4 cables, breakout box and a wall wart. I should be getting my cables later today and I’m gonna keep screwing with it. Edit: oh I see what you’re saying. Just use it to get it set up. I think I’ve got it working through the adapter, so I’ll shoot a profile today to see what’s up. |
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 10, 2024 12:35:51 GMT -6
I thought you had an ADAT to S/pdif converter? If not there are digital converters out there that will do it (plus AES) but that's just more cost, for now have you tried hooking the Carbon up to the Apollo over ADAT and using that for the Trinnov? It was an either/or for me. Carbon or Apollo/Burl. I did get it working but it’s a damn flimsy solution. 4 cables, breakout box and a wall wart. I should be getting my cables later today and I’m gonna keep screwing with it. Edit: oh I see what you’re saying. Just use it to get it set up. I think I’ve got it working through the adapter, so I’ll shoot a profile today to see what’s up. It's been fascinating following along with you on this journey the past 48hrs, John. I keep blaming myself for telling you the Carbon had a S/PDIF out when it was only optical, though...  |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Mar 10, 2024 13:58:04 GMT -6
Yes, when I looked at Carbon I was surprised to see it had no professional AES connection like an RME Fireface III for example. That's a make or break for me, as I use a HEDD 192, Avocet and an AES patchbay. Everything else about the Carbon is great though. Is it? I’m gonna play a lot more today, but this is so close to being a great solution for me…but with some major drawbacks. I’ve seen a Carbon system with 3x S1 and a Dock in action. Those Avid control surfaces and their intergration are very, very impressive. I do consider from time to time switching to a Pro Tools system like this for tracking, editing and mixing. And then composing in Cubase. It’s a combination of the cost, learning curve and increased complexity to my workflow that hold me back. I remain tempted, perhaps something for when I semi retire |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 13:58:30 GMT -6
It was an either/or for me. Carbon or Apollo/Burl. I did get it working but it’s a damn flimsy solution. 4 cables, breakout box and a wall wart. I should be getting my cables later today and I’m gonna keep screwing with it. Edit: oh I see what you’re saying. Just use it to get it set up. I think I’ve got it working through the adapter, so I’ll shoot a profile today to see what’s up. It's been fascinating following along with you on this journey the past 48hrs, John. I keep blaming myself for telling you the Carbon had a S/PDIF out when it was only optical, though... I do think I had sussed out the adat/opt was all that was on there…I just didn’t weigh the gravity of it… |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Mar 10, 2024 14:51:07 GMT -6
Oh definitely. I would even go so far as to say if someone isn't using Pro Tools exclusively (outside of, you know, some small little things or prepping for session conversion, so on and so on), you lose so much of the appeal of the Carbon.
Regarding the latency side of things, I'm not saying he's wrong, it's just one of those things I've really never paid much attention to on TDM/HDX unless there was something really wrong. But my use cases with HDX systems, in particular, have always been under the mindset of "we're here for the room, the mics, and maybe some cool outboard" so I'm probably only throwing on Dyn3 and EQ3 to reign things in when we need to for monitoring. Monitoring reverb when necessary, so sometimes I'm paying zero attention to plugin latency, especially if I'm familiar with the facility.
It just seems very surprising that the zero latency plugs for Native would have any impact on HDX. I'm due to go visit a colleague in a few weeks who has HDX, so I'll be sure to go check out the impact of various plugins. He's a waves guy, so if Waves is AAX-DSP, he'll have some of those I can check too.
Zero latency plug-ins on native just fit within the minimum buffer to run on a native DAW, they don't have less latency than an AAX DSP plug-in on HDX. Generally, any HDX plug-in that displays 10-34 samples of delay will show as 0 samples when run in native mode due to the buffers native processing require. Aaah, okay, interesting. I had guessed something similar was happening with the buffer on sends/aux busses in one of the recent threads, makes complete sense that this would also apply to plugins showing no latency in Pro Tools Studio. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Mar 10, 2024 23:58:51 GMT -6
Found this confirming the Optical INs on the Carbon are ADAT exclusively. (You can switch to spdif optical on the OUTS)…so I really don’t think I’d be able to get the digital signal back in from the Trinnov. ADAT is the only digital-in protocol on the unit. Mind boggling. And I think MTRX is the same, right? www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/experts-name-their-audio-interface-choice“ How To Bring The Mac Mini Audio Into My Monitoring System - With my HD Omni and Mac Pro cheese-grater, I used an optical SPDIF cable from the optical out of my Mac Pro to the optical input of my HD Omni and then configured the HD Omni to route that through to my monitoring, enabling me to be able to monitor Pro Tools or any audio via the macOS like iTunes, Soundly etc without any switching. However, this is not an option with the MTRX Studio as although there are optical inputs they are exclusively ADAT ports and cannot be switched to SPDIF optical. Instead I used an instance of Dante Virtual Sound Card. My second requirement was for an audio interface with balanced audio and that is where the Focusrite 2i2 comes in.” |
|
.. Although you're not the only person to use it, in audio engineering it was mainly Pro Tools but they made everyone learn music theory and composition with Cubase. Out of all the things we buy a DAW is far from the most expensive and you can trial it for 60 days anyway. We get it, you like Cubase..
..
