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Post by Dan on Mar 7, 2024 9:25:40 GMT -6
I’ll bet their are some lawyers paying very close attention to these threads😁 It's a tricky one because I love that people are emulating modern hardware for plugins, but I also have a soft spot for RND being a Texas based company with an absolutely sterling reputation 'round these parts. Just cuz it's RND doesn't mean they're immune to margin squeezes and the same economic forces that every company is struggling with. It would be heartbreaking to see a company like that go down. I would be livid if I were them. I mean, imagine if someone did this with the Silver Bullet, we'd all be up in arms defending our friends at LTL. the official silver bullet plug is awesome. Meanwhile SSL didn’t even sell outboard versions of the bus compressor when the clones started coming out and their official ssl duende and then native bus compressor sucked. Digico / Audiotonix then made their modeled channel strips like the 4K B that didn’t suck soundwise for 300 dollars or subscription only for something less flexible than most of the ancient 4000 strips. They finally have a 4K E model with distortion but it’s 20 years too late after Waves SSL became a staple of crappy productions everywhere and I don’t know of anyone else who even bothered demoing it.
Those official ssl plugs are dead. There’s only hype around them when they are practically giving them away and the best ones were the contracted out X Verb (discontinued because they didn’t want to pay Relab) and the slow workflow X EQ. They also benched Jim from posting on forums about them and even though he made some crazy claims he did talk them up for years. Those Paul Frindle posts still sell the Oxford plugins for Focusrite! RND only partnered with Yamaha/Steinberg and the plugins went nowhere. The DDMF clones of the eq is still around and people have it in the bundle of DDMF plugs and people will get the Kiive if it ends up in the PA sub or is 30 bucks eventually when discounted by PA’s new private equity masters. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 7, 2024 9:58:18 GMT -6
Just a hunch but I’ll bet they think they are OK because in the past plugin vendors have done cleaver but obvious names and great job of copying face plates of gear where the intellectual property rights have all expired and there are Licensed versions. What these guys probably don’t understand is that those were all done to avoid one simple image that still had a current copyright, the manufacturers name. This is one where even if this company were to win, RND and SSL could drive them out of business simply by dragging out any legal action. Exactly. The IP on a gray face LA2A expired ages ago I would imagine (or did it? I don't know) so you only have to worry about the trademark. In this case RND could be like "uhh... guys this is very clearly based on the product that we registered like 5 years ago and very clearly impacts our ability to sell it in a material way." Aren’t those trademark issues claiming that it’s confusing to the customer - they might think they’re actually buying the real? Well, I guess no customer thinks they’re getting the real thing here…but you could definitely say it’s intellectual property theft. Idk. But I’d like to have the MBT. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 7, 2024 10:24:03 GMT -6
Exactly. The IP on a gray face LA2A expired ages ago I would imagine (or did it? I don't know) so you only have to worry about the trademark. In this case RND could be like "uhh... guys this is very clearly based on the product that we registered like 5 years ago and very clearly impacts our ability to sell it in a material way." Aren’t those trademark issues claiming that it’s confusing to the customer - they might think they’re actually buying the real? Well, I guess no customer thinks they’re getting the real thing here…but you could definitely say it’s intellectual property theft. Idk. But I’d like to have the MBT. unless you trademark the faceplate or casework or markings on the pcb, you cannot claim it, eg Behringer lost some lawsuits where the pcb had logo burned onto it, api trademarked THRUST but anyone can just copy the filter, they also trademarked knob designs they never even made and bullied CAPI in our unfortunate legal system. |
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Post by robo on Mar 7, 2024 10:57:41 GMT -6
Interesting conversation. I think soon enough most companies will be licensing “authorized” plugin versions of their hardware when releasing a new product. The way Klanghabitat, Audioscape, others have done recently. As far as Kiive goes, it seems all their plugs are based on hardware with some tweaks. It’s not my favorite approach, but it’s caught my interest a couple times. I’m inclined to let lawyers hash out what’s fair game or not. I honestly doubt if you will see many do it, first the manufacturer isn’t going to make S much on a plugin license as an actual sale, also having the gear out there drives demand without having to invest as much in advertising. But if they release their “own” plugin versions of hardware (hire a dev to code it for them like Audioscape did) it seems like a good investment, as they’ve done the RnD already in the analog realm, and with a relatively small investment can sell digital copies with minimal cost (OS updates, etc). |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 7, 2024 13:04:49 GMT -6
I honestly doubt if you will see many do it, first the manufacturer isn’t going to make S much on a plugin license as an actual sale, also having the gear out there drives demand without having to invest as much in advertising. But if they release their “own” plugin versions of hardware (hire a dev to code it for them like Audioscape did) it seems like a good investment, as they’ve done the RnD already in the analog realm, and with a relatively small investment can sell digital copies with minimal cost (OS updates, etc). Also, the plugin is almost promotion for the hardware. How many bedroom producers bought an LA2A (or clone) to get the "real thing" after using a plugin? |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 7, 2024 15:15:37 GMT -6
But if they release their “own” plugin versions of hardware (hire a dev to code it for them like Audioscape did) it seems like a good investment, as they’ve done the RnD already in the analog realm, and with a relatively small investment can sell digital copies with minimal cost (OS updates, etc). Also, the plugin is almost promotion for the hardware. How many bedroom producers bought an LA2A (or clone) to get the "real thing" after using a plugin? That’s exactly what happens to me. I buy plug-ins and then think this is good I bet the hardware is amazing. End up buying the hardware and proving myself right! Hardware always sounds superior to the plugin version  It’s an expensive approach - I can’t afford to do it to often so I’m selective. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 7, 2024 22:12:23 GMT -6
So many emulations of nice gear and here I am still using emulations of noisy bullshit like the Tascam 688 midistudio and Altec 1567a. I just bought soundtoys radiator because little radiator did the job on some di guitars. They sound huge. You like dirt |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 7, 2024 22:23:24 GMT -6
Just spent like 20 minutes with this, but I love it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 22, 2024 13:02:56 GMT -6
Damnit. After all the UAD, waves and slate price dropping, I’m having a really hard time spending $99 on a plug. I know, I know…it’s a race to the bottom and I should just pay these guys for their trouble. It’s probably a very fair price.
Anyway - is this superfluous/redundant with the Silver Bullet? I was all gung ho on the SB, but I sure like the stereo widened on this thing.
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Post by Dan on Mar 22, 2024 13:33:50 GMT -6
Damnit. After all the UAD, waves and slate price dropping, I’m having a really hard time spending $99 on a plug. I know, I know…it’s a race to the bottom and I should just pay these guys for their trouble. It’s probably a very fair price. Anyway - is this superfluous/redundant with the Silver Bullet? I was all gung ho on the SB, but I sure like the stereo widened on this thing. they distribute some plugins through plugin alliance so I think anything above 30 bucks is money burned. You don’t need it. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 22, 2024 13:51:46 GMT -6
No point, other then impatience, just wait price will fall.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098 
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Post by ericn on Mar 22, 2024 14:16:39 GMT -6
No point, other then impatience, just wait price will fall. I don’t know the impending legal fees might keep the price up😎 |
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Post by FM77 on Mar 22, 2024 14:34:17 GMT -6
I am not sure how this a copy of the MBP? It doesn't resemble much but the obvious panel look. And the Fusion has been fully integrated by SSL for plugin use already, module by module. I got each of mine for $9 during a special.
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Post by FM77 on Mar 22, 2024 14:36:07 GMT -6
And I should add that, with the Fusion plugin modules, having had the hardware here for two years, I can say the plugins are very satisfying.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 22, 2024 14:36:32 GMT -6
I am not sure how this a copy of the MBP? It doesn't resemble much but the obvious panel look. And the Fusion has been fully integrated by SSL for plugin use already, module by module. I got each of mine for $9 during a special. How does it not resemble much? The sound you mean? |
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Post by FM77 on Mar 22, 2024 14:47:50 GMT -6
I am not sure how this a copy of the MBP? It doesn't resemble much but the obvious panel look. And the Fusion has been fully integrated by SSL for plugin use already, module by module. I got each of mine for $9 during a special. How does it not resemble much? The sound you mean? Maybe I am being pedantic, the MBP has no output, no EQ. It does have the texture control, but that is not really saturation, it is uniqu. It is more of a harmonic content addition, not a drive. A bit like tape. The MPB has different controls for the SFE, which is the true gem of the MBP in my opinion as well as the limiter. The MBP is a very subtle box. I have been tracking with it for the past few days on a drum buss. |
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Post by FM77 on Mar 22, 2024 14:51:59 GMT -6
Now, obviously, I realize plugins take liberties with additional controls. SSL does it with all the Fusion modules. It's a good thing. But in this case, it feels like a cheap shot, as the heart of the MBP is the subtle SFE, comp, and limiter. In my opinion.
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Post by tasteliketape on Mar 22, 2024 14:53:28 GMT -6
Maybe confusing the MBT & MBP?
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Post by FM77 on Mar 22, 2024 14:58:23 GMT -6
Maybe confusing the MBT & MBP? Snap brother. Yep!
Boink. Thanks!
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