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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 18, 2024 12:40:32 GMT -6
My IGS tubecore have developed some random (1-2 per song) clicks in the left channel. First I thought it was clocking issues, but eventually tracked it down to the compressor I think. click is visible in waveform and also occurs when comp in bypass mode. Before I start planning on sending to service I thought I'd check if any bells rings with them who have built compressors and serviced them themselves where this issue might be, since it's also there in bypass mode. It's over 10 years old unit, but just replaced the tubes and it works really great otherwise. I'll attach the file if someone wants to microscope it in the daw. NOISEsample.wav (118.09 KB) ps. sounds very similar to a clocking/static noise, varies a little from very subtle to very noticeable.
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Post by audiospecific on Feb 18, 2024 14:05:14 GMT -6
My IGS tubecore have developed some random (1-2 per song) clicks in the left channel. First I thought it was clocking issues, but eventually tracked it down to the compressor I think. click is visible in waveform and also occurs when comp in bypass mode. Before I start planning on sending to service I thought I'd check if any bells rings with them who have built compressors and serviced them themselves where this issue might be, since it's also there in bypass mode. It's over 10 years old unit, but just replaced the tubes and it works really great otherwise. I'll attach the file if someone wants to microscope it in the daw. View Attachmentps. sounds very similar to a clocking/static noise, varies a little from very subtle to very noticeable.
Its most likely tube base related. I would try pulling out and reinstalling the tubes since those look like blade type sockets and they at times don't make good connections to pins the first time a tube is plugged in.
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 18, 2024 14:17:19 GMT -6
Super thanks for chiming in (was kinda hoping for you to do it at some point, as you seem to know this stuff ). I will do that immediately and report back how it played out.
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Post by wiz on Feb 18, 2024 14:28:11 GMT -6
Play music into it from an external source and record it….rather than using it as an externally inserted piece of gear…just to isolate the clocking sync issues
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 18, 2024 15:42:57 GMT -6
Play music into it from an external source and record it….rather than using it as an externally inserted piece of gear…just to isolate the clocking sync issues Cheers Wiz Huge thank or you also to chime in. I just finished off a testing round with following results. I don't really have other sources to push thru at the moment than my inteface. BUT I came up with something that might help further. - I took out the tubes and reset them a couple of times, tried to feel for and see loose connections, but all seem normal. - Since my mixbus consists of 2 units, comp and eq, I again disconnected the other first and then the other. Eventually I was actually, this time, able to replacate the similar click with both units on their own. It took some playing as it only comes maximum 1-2 times per song. So on the 3rd listening of the complete song the eq also produced it. So I figure it's not in the mixbus units after all. - I have done every possible move regarding my apollo, hard drive, satellite, and what not, connecting in different ways with no result. I have used internal and external clocking (both master and slaving) with no difference. - I hook up my mixbus as follows. apollo twin out ch3-4 to my compressor, compressor hooks up to eq, eq comes back into apollo ch1-2 from where I print it. (this due to pro tools not accepting 3-4 to 1-2 as insert) So, could it be either apollo channels playing up or?
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 18, 2024 16:17:12 GMT -6
UPDATE2
I made a small change in the routing in Apollo's Console. Previously I used the VIRTUAL channels (with ch3-4 in it's mixer at 0db) set to MUTE to route from DAW to hardware. Now i suddenly realized I can skip the virtual channels and just send the entire mix out straight thru 3-4 and return as before to 1-2 without the VIRTUAL channels, that should work right? I will keep listening and checking if that changes anything as then it's one internal loop eliminated.
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Post by drbill on Feb 18, 2024 18:13:40 GMT -6
Sounds like it's not in your hardware chain - especially as it's doing it in bypass. Sometimes these gremlins are very tricky to track down, and you have to remove ALL variables to discern where it's happening. My guess - conversion / clock or wiring or software related.
Try using NOTHING on your 2 buss insert - i.e. - remove the wiring from the back of your unit(s) and plug L/R input into output - essentially making the chain loop, but without the outboard in it. Record just as if you had hardware in the loop - but you only have DA>Wiring>AD. Check for intermittent clicks over time. My guess is that you will still hear them. Essentially nixing all outboard from being the problem. Just a guess....but that's where I would start.
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 18, 2024 18:36:31 GMT -6
Sounds like it's not in your hardware chain - especially as it's doing it in bypass. Sometimes these gremlins are very tricky to track down, and you have to remove ALL variables to discern where it's happening. My guess - conversion / clock or wiring or software related. Try using NOTHING on your 2 buss insert - i.e. - remove the wiring from the back of your unit(s) and plug L/R input into output - essentially making the chain loop, but without the outboard in it. Record just as if you had hardware in the loop - but you only have DA>Wiring>AD. Check for intermittent clicks over time. My guess is that you will still hear them. Essentially nixing all outboard from being the problem. Just a guess....but that's where I would start. I think you are spot on. I already noticed it when I switched off the mains of my outboard and had them in the loop but no power, I would still hear some clicks. So I agree that when I tomorrow loop the cables I will hear the clicks. BUT, just before I left the studio and simplified the routing as mentioned above in my post, from daw out3-4 and printing on in1-2 (without the uad recommended virtual channels) I didn’t in the short test i had time for not catch any clicks. I will get back to it tomorrow and try to verify if that was the culprit.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2024 3:54:19 GMT -6
Any possibility it’s something in the Apollo clicking?
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 19, 2024 5:05:29 GMT -6
drbill, I did the looping cables test and as you suggested, yes I could still produce the click, so seem to be in the converter/interface end... phew that is the cheaper replacable end of the chain... not the soul of my chain. I'll continue to dig into that un-holy end of the chain..
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 19, 2024 5:09:15 GMT -6
Any possibility it’s something in the Apollo clicking? Most likely yes. That was my initial thought, but when I took it all apart and could not nail it, I suddenly got click-less a few times when I removed the compressor and kinda thought it must be it. But then when i kept beating my head against the wall and repeated the variations to a point of madness, I came to the conclusion that, it wasn't the hardware, has to be the Apollo. I have now simplified the routing internally in the console, and it kind of (not to jinx it) seem to work better. Have to yet give it some time to see how it evolves...
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2024 5:40:02 GMT -6
The dsp card (even in UA satellite’s), can mske small clicks. Does it just happen randomly or is it related to UA plug ins in your mix?
Have you experienced the click with no daw open and no UA plugs instantiated ?
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 19, 2024 5:49:41 GMT -6
The dsp card (even in UA satellite’s), can mske small clicks. Does it just happen randomly or is it related to UA plug ins in your mix? Have you experienced the click with no daw open and no UA plugs instantiated ? Ive been trying to monitor that, but I have so far only been able to catch them during playback. I tried connecting satellite and apollo separately to the mac instead of daisy chaining them, no difference. They're so sparse as they come 1-2 times over a song, sometimes not at all, so every time I make a change it takes some time to see how it goes, usually though, it clicks fairly early on. The clicks can vary also a little in loudness and character. That's why I think it might be in the outgoing signal as it was more prominent when compressor attach than when the eq was alone or the cables just looped. When I'm all in the box without routing to mixbus all is hunky dory. So it is in that loop something shits on itself.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2024 6:39:58 GMT -6
Have you looped out and back adding 1 piece of outboard at a time?
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 19, 2024 7:05:32 GMT -6
Buffer too low?
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 19, 2024 7:21:30 GMT -6
No, since i run most plugs on dsp and have quite some juice i can run a full mix at 32samples. Buffer does not play really any difference where i set it. All the obvious basics have been dealt with everything from cables to possible wireless routers nearby to optimizing settings for pt. This is a weirdo that doesn't seem to follow human logic but I'm going to conquer it. EDIT: spelling
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2024 7:25:14 GMT -6
Conquer, but I concur with your approach!
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 19, 2024 7:58:32 GMT -6
Conquer, but I concur with your approach! DAMN AUTOCORRECT. this is what you get for typing on a mobile on the run.. Thanks, corrected it MANUALLY (this time analog won over digital )
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2024 8:11:26 GMT -6
Was just pooling your leg !
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Post by doubledog on Feb 19, 2024 8:48:52 GMT -6
hmmm... I have an Apollo and I have never successfully run a mix (even if I used mostly DSP) on much less than 256 sample buffer size. Generally I am running 512 or 1024 for mixes that have both. If i don't, I ALWAYS get weird clicks and pops. What happens if you try increasing the buffer size? Also, what do you have the "delay compensation" set to in UA Console? The manual says you can have it disabled if you are recording one channel at a time, but generally I think you want it set to something if you do multi channel recording (or it seems like since you are utilizing the virtual channels you may need it enabled?). I think mine is set to "medium". help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030068452-Managing-DSP-Resourcesand maybe my setup is just weird.
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Post by drbill on Feb 19, 2024 9:28:31 GMT -6
Glad you narrowed it down!
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 19, 2024 9:31:55 GMT -6
hmmm... I have an Apollo and I have never successfully run a mix (even if I used mostly DSP) on much less than 256 sample buffer size. Generally I am running 512 or 1024 for mixes that have both. If i don't, I ALWAYS get weird clicks and pops. What happens if you try increasing the buffer size? Also, what do you have the "delay compensation" set to in UA Console? The manual says you can have it disabled if you are recording one channel at a time, but generally I think you want it set to something if you do multi channel recording (or it seems like since you are utilizing the virtual channels you may need it enabled?). I think mine is set to "medium". help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030068452-Managing-DSP-Resourcesand maybe my setup is just weird. Yeah I have tried on maximum buffer ofcourse too and everything in between. No difference, I have the delay compensation OFF as i don't use inserts in in the console at the moment. But, you can be on to something about the virtual channels, couse now that I routed around it and go straight out3-4 and in 1-2 the problem might have been sorted, have had a decent short run now with no major issues as far as I hear. So that could have been the issue. I will look more into the link you attached to see if I can find some hints from there.
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Post by Shadowk on Feb 19, 2024 19:28:55 GMT -6
It sounds to me like the electronic relay's are switching causing it to click, is there anything trying to alter sample rate? A plugin or something? If not, you might best off getting it RMA'd or replaced. Have you opened a support case with UA yet?
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 23, 2024 4:19:13 GMT -6
Thought I'd update my conclusions after listening a little while on the outcome of it all. The issue seem to originate from Apollo's virtual channels. There might be some settings with dly comp. I could work with and maybe get it to work, I don't know, just saying not to bash the system solely, could be me. But as my new solution of not using virtual channels is actually working much better for me, less routing in between, and the benefits the virtual channels brought me at the time I set them up I don't use anymore anyway. So it all seem to be running now as it should, let's keep fingers crossed.
Big thanks to all you who chimed in and gave me great pointers.
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Post by drbill on Feb 23, 2024 10:24:05 GMT -6
Big thanks to all you who chimed in and gave me great pointers. Had to say it sorry..... . Outboard kicks softwares ass yet once again.... LOL. Good luck tracking down the final gremlins.
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