|
Post by bluesholyman on Feb 16, 2024 6:48:11 GMT -6
I have seen them set up both ways, I think, and maybe it depends on the monitors themselves, I am not sure so I am asking.
I had mine pointed straight out and then decided to turn them in after seeing a few videos showing them that way, forming a triangle - maybe there were specific dimensions to the triangle, I don't recall. I noticed a difference, but I am having difficulty quantifying it in my head. Something in the image changed, but I am not sure exactly what.
Do you angle your monitors in toward the listening position, or do you point them straight out? What is the benefit of one over the other?
Appreciate your thoughts....
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2024 7:10:54 GMT -6
They should be angled towards your ears, and the adjusted slightly, out or in, depending on how beaming the high frequencies are
|
|
|
Post by lowlou on Feb 16, 2024 7:11:48 GMT -6
You should have them pointed at you directly, unless your monitors have an excellent dispersion pattern in the high frequecies (example : D&D 8c). If it's the case, monitors toed out will increase perception of soundstage and alter the phantom center size in relation to the sides information.
My recommendation is to have them pointed right at you or slightly toed out ; because most speakers are very much ultra directional uptop, you don't want to risk hearing a degraded version of the audio.
|
|
|
Post by bluesholyman on Feb 16, 2024 7:30:10 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on Feb 16, 2024 8:51:24 GMT -6
The angle should have the tweeters meeting just a little behind your head, when in the mix position. I think it's often a 30 degree angle but math was never my strong suit. :-)
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2024 9:08:52 GMT -6
In the real world it depends on speaker, room and position, in theory angled.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Feb 16, 2024 9:31:55 GMT -6
It looks like Focal agrees with having them towed in from the picture in the link. Mine are slightly in, but not severely.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2024 9:39:12 GMT -6
It looks like Focal agrees with having them towed in from the picture in the link. Mine are slightly in, but not severely. The problem with going by pictures is often the set up has more to do with the photographers idea of how things should look vs reality. Even suggested positioning in manuals often represents corporate philosophy or is cut and pasted by a manual writer who doesn’t really know the speakers. Like mics move them around till they sound their best.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Feb 16, 2024 10:09:35 GMT -6
The headwall behind (in front of) my mix positioned is angled at the outer edges. So my monitors are parallel (or is it perpendicular??) to them. They are angled. More often than not, the rooms that I've set up or worked in are angled.
And yes to the apex of the triangle hitting at the rear of your head when monitoring in the sweet spot.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 16, 2024 10:29:57 GMT -6
I mean those Focals have a fairly damped alu-mag alloy tweeter. the magnesium damps it. The shapes, arias, and CMS sound quite dark to me despite the metal tweeter hard breaks ups so I would keep them on axis.
Old Genelecs and PMCs where the tweeter will tear your head off, I might do straight firing. Those P.M.C. (Putrid Monkey Coffins) are vile little turds. You better not have any tape hiss, guitar fizz, high hats, or sibilants on them firing in an equilateral triangle into your ears. Like a monkey, they will pick up shit and throw it at you.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 16, 2024 10:35:53 GMT -6
Always angled towards me, but that's because I use speakers with waveguides.
Sometimes speakers need to be slightly off axis to sound better though, which is why some are straight.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 16, 2024 11:20:36 GMT -6
I don't think I have ever seen them fully straight on in pro-level studio for hire, FWIW.
|
|
|
Post by dok on Feb 16, 2024 11:56:30 GMT -6
Everything I've read on the topic indicates that the speakers should form an equilateral triangle with your head slightly inside the apex, and the speakers pointed inward at a 30 degree angle. The 30 degree angle was determined to be the optimum for stereo listening long ago, or so I've read. This PDF is super useful as a guide: carltatzdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Updated-NULL-POSITIONING-ENSEMBLE™.pdfYou can disregard the length of each side of the triangle as shown (that and their position relative to your walls will be dependent upon your room modes) but the important things are the 30 degree angle and equilateral triangle with your head just inside the apex. This guy's system combined with his axial mode calculator (available here: carltatzdesign.com/acoustic-tools/) has worked wonders for me in every room I've set up in. And I'm just an idiot with an expensive hobby, but this really helps take the guesswork out of where to place my speakers and listening position.
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Feb 16, 2024 11:58:44 GMT -6
I do the whole equilateral triangle thing with them angled in at 33°. But that’s just because I started that way years ago and it’s what I’m used to.
I think positioning speakers is more a matter of preference than anything. Some configurations might be more accurate than others, but if you personally do better work with a certain angle, that’s all that matters.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 16, 2024 12:05:56 GMT -6
An engineer friend told me there's a reputable consultant in LA whose main gig us purely speaker placement consulting.
|
|
|
Post by Darren Boling on Feb 16, 2024 12:49:43 GMT -6
An engineer friend told me there's a reputable consultant in LA whose main gig us purely speaker placement consulting. The guy that 'unf**ks your studio'? I believe that's what his tagline was.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 16, 2024 13:32:30 GMT -6
An engineer friend told me there's a reputable consultant in LA whose main gig us purely speaker placement consulting. The guy that 'unf**ks your studio'? I believe that's what his tagline was. Ha, not sure. Ariel from Dreamland (NY) mentioned him by name but I didn’t commit it to memory.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2024 13:45:44 GMT -6
The guy that 'unf**ks your studio'? I believe that's what his tagline was. Ha, not sure. Ariel from Dreamland (NY) mentioned him by name but I didn’t commit it to memory. There are a couple of guys who do this, one of the biggest issues is most fall into either the “ room guy “ camp or the “ speaker guy” camp, you really really need a very good grasp of both. The other big issue is every position is a compromise. I have pencil marks for LF with & without subs, freq balanced, best imaging and my overall best compromise for 4 different speaker systems! God moving is going to be a bitch.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Feb 16, 2024 15:34:56 GMT -6
what everyone said. I’ll just add don’t be afraid to go your own way. For me, I’m a sensitive maniac who hates everything I hear when I’m in the Apex of the triangle. I mean I love it for about 30 seconds, then hate it. I start annihilating everything like a chainsaw in the jungle until every bit of the original sound has been flattened and tamed. Next day I’m like wtf did I do?!
Over time I discovered I do much better listening off axis. I’ll peep my head into the on axis position if I need to for 20 seconds. The rest of the time it’s all off axis. Sometimes I’ll lean them off the floor like a stage monitor. Whatever I need to do to get a different perspective. Of course, I put them back in default position when done.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 16, 2024 16:00:49 GMT -6
Ha, not sure. Ariel from Dreamland (NY) mentioned him by name but I didn’t commit it to memory. There are a couple of guys who do this, one of the biggest issues is most fall into either the “ room guy “ camp or the “ speaker guy” camp, you really really need a very good grasp of both. The other big issue is every position is a compromise. I have pencil marks for LF with & without subs, freq balanced, best imaging and my overall best compromise for 4 different speaker systems! God moving is going to be a bitch. I did work in Bob Hodas tuned room ages ago, actually. It was decent despite some inherent flaws.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Feb 16, 2024 16:49:33 GMT -6
In the real world it depends on speaker, room and position, in theory angled. Yes…mine are straight …they sound great in that position….but I built my room from the ground up and spent a lot of time positioning the speakers etc cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 16, 2024 18:41:25 GMT -6
An engineer friend told me there's a reputable consultant in LA whose main gig us purely speaker placement consulting. Isn't it always behind the Podium?
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
|
Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2024 22:27:48 GMT -6
An engineer friend told me there's a reputable consultant in LA whose main gig us purely speaker placement consulting. Isn't it always behind the Podium? Nah these days they like a wireless head worn and roaming, personally I think it’s just to make sure the sound guy is awake.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 16, 2024 23:47:25 GMT -6
Isn't it always behind the Podium? Nah these days they like a wireless head worn and roaming, personally I think it’s just to make sure the sound guy is awake. Or handheld so they can point it at the mains while gesticulating.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 16, 2024 23:56:41 GMT -6
I wouldn't gesticularlate on stage to begin with. Let alone handheld.
|
|