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Post by skav on Jan 20, 2024 6:25:09 GMT -6
Besides Mac.. Does it exist? Low latency, low enough noise.. Help!?  |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 20, 2024 6:32:45 GMT -6
I bought a Windows laptop from the company that make my pro audio workstations for me and it's been very good.
I use it with an RME Babyface and it sits next to my Roland TD-50x/ Drum Tec E kit to capture MIDI performances.
It's low latency (mainly thanks to RME drivers) and quiet unless I'm pounding it and then the fans (like all Windows laptops) kick in.
Windows laptops will greatly improve when Intel move to 3nm tech for their mobile chips then expect to see Mac level performance from
a Windows laptop.
Until then if you want lot's of tracks and VI's and super quiet then probably Mac is the only game in town currently.
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Post by skav on Jan 20, 2024 6:41:49 GMT -6
I bought a Windows laptop from the company that make my pro audio workstations for me and it's been very good. I use it with an RME Babyface and it sits next to my Roland TD-50x/ Drum Tec E kit to capture MIDI performances. It's low latency (mainly thanks to RME drivers) and quiet unless I'm pounding it and then the fans (like all Windows laptops) kick in. Windows laptops will greatly improve when Intel move to 3nm tech for their mobile chips then expect to see Mac level performance from a Windows laptop. Until then if you want lot's of tracks and VI's and super quiet then probably Mac is the only game in town currently. Thank you sharing. Which computer is it? Do you know if they build them any differently than those on the consumer market? |
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Post by doubledog on Jan 20, 2024 8:36:29 GMT -6
A Windows laptop (especially with today's NVMe drives and fast CPUs) can be fast, stable and low-latency. A big factor is to delete any and all bloat-ware and disconnect it from the internet. Making it a PC dedicated for recording will make a huge difference. I use a Dell XPS (desktop) but I'm disconnected except for the short times I need to authenticate something or run some updates. I don't browse websites or FB or any of that crap. That make it less likely to get attacked with Malware, etc. The other recommendation is disable services that are not required (do I really need a print spooler running if I'm never going to print?). There are plenty of web sites with details on how to optimize (if you don't already know). And yes, if you stuff the hottest components in it, then you will probably hear the fans run (they will need to). but if you don't get the hottest cpu and the biggest hottest drives, and oodles of RAM (that you may not need) then it will probably run well.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 20, 2024 9:22:25 GMT -6
I bought a Windows laptop from the company that make my pro audio workstations for me and it's been very good. I use it with an RME Babyface and it sits next to my Roland TD-50x/ Drum Tec E kit to capture MIDI performances. It's low latency (mainly thanks to RME drivers) and quiet unless I'm pounding it and then the fans (like all Windows laptops) kick in. Windows laptops will greatly improve when Intel move to 3nm tech for their mobile chips then expect to see Mac level performance from a Windows laptop. Until then if you want lot's of tracks and VI's and super quiet then probably Mac is the only game in town currently. Thank you sharing. Which computer is it? Do you know if they build them any differently than those on the consumer market? Scan 3XS .... a UK company. Brilliant after sales service too. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 20, 2024 9:26:33 GMT -6
A Windows laptop (especially with today's NVMe drives and fast CPUs) can be fast, stable and low-latency. A big factor is to delete any and all bloat-ware and disconnect it from the internet. Making it a PC dedicated for recording will make a huge difference. I use a Dell XPS (desktop) but I'm disconnected except for the short times I need to authenticate something or run some updates. I don't browse websites or FB or any of that crap. That make it less likely to get attacked with Malware, etc. The other recommendation is disable services that are not required (do I really need a print spooler running if I'm never going to print?). There are plenty of web sites with details on how to optimize (if you don't already know). And yes, if you stuff the hottest components in it, then you will probably hear the fans run (they will need to). but if you don't get the hottest cpu and the biggest hottest drives, and oodles of RAM (that you may not need) then it will probably run well. Really, still worried about the internet? My studio audio workstation, writing room workstation and laptop are all permanently connected to the internet for my own tfp server, ilok cloud, UAD cloud, One Drive etc. Windows built in Defender is all you need - been doing this for a decade and I have never ever had a single virus or malware - nothing. Zero. For me personally, a computer system not connected to the internet may as well be a kids toy. I deem it essential. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2024 15:55:19 GMT -6
Besides Mac.. Does it exist? Low latency, low enough noise.. Help!? not anymore. Buy a MacBook or build a windows daw pc desktop. |
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Post by Omicron9 on Jan 20, 2024 21:55:18 GMT -6
Yes. The Dell Precision series laptops. I have two in the racks. Silent. Never crashed, not once. Never a pop, click, or dropout. About as bulletproof as it gets.
Also has slots for two internal hard drives. Love it.
-09
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Post by mattbroiler on Jan 20, 2024 22:50:08 GMT -6
I agree with Omicron9 - I have two Dell Precision laptops they work very well and they are both eight years old
Lenovo laptops are reliable and last a long time as well, you can do well with either of those brands.
Sifting through all the damned options and models to figure out exactly which one to get is a pain for sure
As mentioned by others one has to disable lots of windars background garbage and get rid of all bloatware to get your system streamlined but once that is done the Dells work reliably and off you go to get some work done
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Post by doubledog on Jan 21, 2024 9:00:04 GMT -6
A Windows laptop (especially with today's NVMe drives and fast CPUs) can be fast, stable and low-latency. A big factor is to delete any and all bloat-ware and disconnect it from the internet. Making it a PC dedicated for recording will make a huge difference. I use a Dell XPS (desktop) but I'm disconnected except for the short times I need to authenticate something or run some updates. I don't browse websites or FB or any of that crap. That make it less likely to get attacked with Malware, etc. The other recommendation is disable services that are not required (do I really need a print spooler running if I'm never going to print?). There are plenty of web sites with details on how to optimize (if you don't already know). And yes, if you stuff the hottest components in it, then you will probably hear the fans run (they will need to). but if you don't get the hottest cpu and the biggest hottest drives, and oodles of RAM (that you may not need) then it will probably run well. Really, still worried about the internet? My studio audio workstation, writing room workstation and laptop are all permanently connected to the internet for my own tfp server, ilok cloud, UAD cloud, One Drive etc. Windows built in Defender is all you need - been doing this for a decade and I have never ever had a single virus or malware - nothing. Zero. For me personally, a computer system not connected to the internet may as well be a kids toy. I deem it essential. it's not so much worried about the internet, but what people do on their computers other than recording. I've got defender on mine as well, and it's been fine. I use a physical Ilok vs. cloud ilok (which is fine until your network is down...). For those that actually understand connecting to the internet and protecting their system (firewalls, etc) it's less of an issue. For those that aren't really "computer savvy" then my advice is always to keep it dedicated as DAW and only connect when you have to. Once you start opening email and browsing web sites, social media, etc. that's where the bad stuff lives, and I have too many "friends" calling me to ask for help on that stuff... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 13:04:47 GMT -6
You can’t recommend any individual model without knowing the dpc latency for that part configuration and drivers, and custom drivers for the OEM. Anyone who just says thinkpad or Dell doesn’t know what they’re talking about. These change model to model and configuration to configuration.
Buy a Macbook or slavishly follow a daw pc build guide or pay someone to build you a daw windows desktop. It will work. Drivers for windows laptops have gone downhill.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 21, 2024 17:15:10 GMT -6
Just curious, why "besides Mac?"
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Post by chessparov on Jan 21, 2024 17:22:49 GMT -6
Maybe because he wants the best singing Computer...
A Dell.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 17:32:53 GMT -6
Just curious, why "besides Mac?" dpc latency will cause dropouts from poorly coded windows drivers. Many windows PCs are unsuitable for real time audio and video notebookcheck used to review them but honestly many formerly reliable brands that were better than macs 10 years ago are now unusable or their “workstation” laptops unusable for real time audio. Macs used to overheat. With the m1 and m2 laptops they didn’t but m3 can throttle. The insistence on thin and light makes everything not inconsistent as the older, thicker laptops were. Honestly max out a mini or build a windows daw pc. If you need a laptop for remote recording, just get a MacBook now. Spare the headache. |
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Post by mattbroiler on Jan 21, 2024 17:36:06 GMT -6
You can’t recommend any individual model without knowing the dpc latency for that part configuration and drivers, and custom drivers for the OEM. Anyone who just says thinkpad or Dell doesn’t know what they’re talking about. These change model to model and configuration to configuration. Buy a Macbook or slavishly follow a daw pc build guide or pay someone to build you a daw windows desktop. It will work. Drivers for windows laptops have gone downhill. No disrespect at all but you're contradicting yourself here - you can't make a generalization like all "windows drivers have gone downhill" unless you are referring to a specific model because they are not all the same - which was your first point and perfectly valid.
Of course maybe you're right and that's why my eight year old laptops with thunderbolt 2 are working so well...as I type this on a ten year old custom built pc running windows 7.
And how is one supposed to know the DPC latency of a system unless you fucking buy it and start messing with it? Reading specs online does not inform you of oddball quirks and anomalies even if you get into the nitpicky audio forums and read all the complaints.
At some point you have to bite the bullet and buy something. Same goes for custom built pc towers you don't know what you are getting into until you get into it, reading up ahead of time doesn't tell you shit and custom built pcs are subject to all of the same issues potentially.
Agree with your first point that that dpc latency and interrupts and all that need to be as minimal as possible but this can be achieved across many different systems by customizing the configuration.
One easy way to drastically reduce those things to a satisfactory point is to disable all the unused hardware in device manager when running critical applications. Disabling bluetooth and wireless network adapters in particular helps a lot with those problems on many systems. Disable all the unnecessary background services and applications and block windows update. Now things are starting to cruise nicely.
I only mention Dell Precision laptops because I have two of them and have serviced a bunch more and that is why I went that route. Same with Lenovo - every single one that I have every sold anyone is still functioning well because the hardware is reliable and I set them up a certain way. Honestly any half decent system can be made to work satisfactorily - once again depending on specific configurations and how hard and in what manner you are pushing it.
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Post by mattbroiler on Jan 21, 2024 17:40:25 GMT -6
PS I tried to like Macs but they hate me so I won't ever buy their crap again. I must be a mactard. Other people work miracles with them and that's great, go for it!
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 21, 2024 17:41:06 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 17:48:34 GMT -6
You can’t recommend any individual model without knowing the dpc latency for that part configuration and drivers, and custom drivers for the OEM. Anyone who just says thinkpad or Dell doesn’t know what they’re talking about. These change model to model and configuration to configuration. Buy a Macbook or slavishly follow a daw pc build guide or pay someone to build you a daw windows desktop. It will work. Drivers for windows laptops have gone downhill. No disrespect at all but you're contradicting yourself here - you can't make a generalization like all "windows drivers have gone downhill" unless you are referring to a specific model because they are not all the same - which was your first point and perfectly valid.
Of course maybe you're right and that's why my eight year old laptops with thunderbolt 2 are working so well...as I type this on a ten year old custom built pc running windows 7.
And how is one supposed to know the DPC latency of a system unless you fucking buy it and start messing with it? Reading specs online does not inform you of oddball quirks and anomalies even if you get into the nitpicky audio forums and read all the complaints.
At some point you have to bite the bullet and buy something. Same goes for custom built pc towers you don't know what you are getting into until you get into it, reading up ahead of time doesn't tell you shit and custom built pcs are subject to all of the same issues potentially.
Agree with your first point that that dpc latency and interrupts and all that need to be as minimal as possible but this can be achieved across many different systems by customizing the configuration.
One easy way to drastically reduce those things to a satisfactory point is to disable all the unused hardware in device manager when running critical applications. Disabling bluetooth and wireless network adapters in particular helps a lot with those problems on many systems. Disable all the unnecessary background services and applications and block windows update. Now things are starting to cruise nicely.
I only mention Dell Precision laptops because I have two of them and have serviced a bunch more and that is why I went that route. Same with Lenovo - every single one that I have every sold anyone is still functioning well because the hardware is reliable and I set them up a certain way. Honestly any half decent system can be made to work satisfactorily - once again depending on specific configurations and how hard and in what manner you are pushing it.
you look up the review for your sku or you buy a Mac If you build a desktop, you slavishly follow parts guides or you pay a daw pc builder. The Thinkpads declined. |
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Post by skav on Jan 21, 2024 17:49:08 GMT -6
Just curious, why "besides Mac?" 1. Prefer PC, longtime user. 2. Desktop studio computer is a windows PC. No issues. 3. Sharing between windows and mac system is a pain, as I understand it 4. Would rather not like to get caught in the whole Apple ecosystem. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 17:51:22 GMT -6
Just curious, why "besides Mac?" 1. Prefer PC, longtime user. 2. Desktop studio computer is a windows PC. No issues. 3. Sharing between windows and mac system is a pain, as I understand it 4. Would rather not like to get caught in the whole Apple ecosystem. sharing is easy. Just transfer over sessions and .wav files. Avoid au plugins and Logic. |
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Post by skav on Jan 21, 2024 18:23:46 GMT -6
After looking further into user experiences of those laptops with the lowest DPC, I've found that it does not tell the whole story. Though I am under the impression that there is alot to be gained by deactivating certain functions, suh as bluetooth, WI-FI etc. Seems like some of the issues are software. Im curious to test out Ubuntu Studio and compare it to windows. I'm running Reaper anyway. |
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Post by skav on Jan 21, 2024 18:31:43 GMT -6
I agree with Omicron9 - I have two Dell Precision laptops they work very well and they are both eight years old Lenovo laptops are reliable and last a long time as well, you can do well with either of those brands. Sifting through all the damned options and models to figure out exactly which one to get is a pain for sure As mentioned by others one has to disable lots of windars background garbage and get rid of all bloatware to get your system streamlined but once that is done the Dells work reliably and off you go to get some work done Precision series are either 3xxx, 5xxx or 7xxx from what I understand. Progressively more powerful etc. Which do you like? |
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Post by doubledog on Jan 22, 2024 5:05:36 GMT -6
It's been a long time since I ran the DPC latency test. Mainly because it's not a factor for me due to my workflow (which I don't think is necessarily unique) and I've optimized my system. I have an Apollo 16 (old, firewire) and I use Pro Tools. When I am tracking (or others are) I use the UA console to "monitor" and for what goes to headphones, etc. The tracks in PT get armed but are muted. When I playback in TP, then I unmute the tracks. Even if I have plugins running on other tracks in the session, there is not any noticeable latency because all monitoring (while recording) is through the UA console (and I have recorded enough very picky singers that notice any latency). I tried a bunch of interfaces several years ago (Lynx Aurora, Orion 32, Apollo) and gave up on trying to "track" with low (32 or 64 samples) buffer size. It just wasn't practical for me since if I wanted to hear the session with any plugins active, that meant stopping PT, changing the buffer size, and then restarting PT again (huge time waste and vibe killer in the middle of a session). Are people still trying to track with such a low buffer, or through plugins? I never found guitar sims that useful for tracking, even at low buffer sizes (because there was always latency - unless using a DSP/UAD-2 plugin in Console). Maybe I'm just missing the scenario it's required (meaning I don't work that way - but maybe someone else does)?
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 22, 2024 5:46:23 GMT -6
Just curious, why "besides Mac?" 1. Prefer PC, longtime user. 2. Desktop studio computer is a windows PC. No issues. 3. Sharing between windows and mac system is a pain, as I understand it 4. Would rather not like to get caught in the whole Apple ecosystem. I can see that changing system is always a huge mental obstacle, same as suddenly changing daw or wife. But I think the learning curve is pretty fast. There is an ease when it comes to macs in everyday usage, they tend to just work out of the box. Low-maintenance. If you get a mac book pro, you will be able to run your studio and portable setup with the same computer and don’t need to share systems. It’s just a really stable system with a long life expectancy both hw and software wise. The ecosystem does not really extend beyond the computer itself if you choose not bundle up on mac products. |
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Post by svart on Jan 22, 2024 8:09:34 GMT -6
I have a HP Envy and it's been fine. I only use it for a few tracks at a time doing voiceovers or some minor location recording, so I can't say how it works with large projects but I would think it would work fine.
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