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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 5, 2024 13:14:43 GMT -6
Can it be so much better than the bae? I feel the bae would give more bang for the buck since it serves as an amazing pre and should do a similar job in the rear end. www.baeaudio.com/products/1073mpYeah. I guess two Neve prea would do the same thing? But I have no idea what kind of circuit is in the mix bus thingy True, yeah i just checked the linked video and kind of eared it loosely that they could be in similarish ballpark. The kahayan seem to sound really nice. And i am a sucker for single setup of controls on well matched mixbus/mastering stereo units. It could have a link switch for that price i think. The blend and vu are nice touches though. But you are right, it would be nice to see a gut shot on that to determine what it has swallowed. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 5, 2024 13:15:55 GMT -6
Yeah. I guess two Neve prea would do the same thing? But I have no idea what kind of circuit is in the mix bus thingy True, yeah i just checked the linked video and kind of eared it loosely that they could be in similarish ballpark. The kahayan seem to sound really nice. And i am a sucker for single setup of controls on well matched mixbus/mastering stereo units. It could have a link switch for that price i think. The blend and vu are nice touches though. But you are right, it would be nice to see a gut shot on that to determine what it has swallowed. Is it not stereo? |
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Post by niklas1073 on Jan 5, 2024 13:18:13 GMT -6
True, yeah i just checked the linked video and kind of eared it loosely that they could be in similarish ballpark. The kahayan seem to sound really nice. And i am a sucker for single setup of controls on well matched mixbus/mastering stereo units. It could have a link switch for that price i think. The blend and vu are nice touches though. But you are right, it would be nice to see a gut shot on that to determine what it has swallowed. Is it not stereo? Yeah, i think it is. I meant it could be a nice touch to be dual mono with link switch. A small detail but can sometimes make wonders for a mix to have that option |
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Post by geoff738 on Jan 5, 2024 14:20:22 GMT -6
How is this different from the box that Iron Age Audio used to make? I thought that was a neat idea but I guess it didn’t sell enough to keep making it. Then again I didn’t buy one either, so blame me. Cheers, Geoff Didn’t know there was one Just fyi. Discontinued Iron Age box
Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Jan 5, 2024 14:25:14 GMT -6
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 5, 2024 14:38:47 GMT -6
The iron age was $500 new before it was discontinued so that’s just a crazy reverb price |
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Post by Darren Boling on Jan 5, 2024 14:47:56 GMT -6
The iron age was $500 new before it was discontinued so that’s just a crazy reverb price That's just silly and delusional and will sit there for years. I love IAA and think it's an amazing box feature wise, probably sound wise too (I haven't heard one) however that Reverber is asking more than my complete little armada of real deal vintage pairs of St Ives, Triad (2 different types), and UTC (2 pairs) transformers. Not hard to wire transformers up. |
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Post by seawell on Jan 5, 2024 14:56:37 GMT -6
I haven't heard this particular model but I did use a Kahayan Epsilon Limited 4000 which is their SSL 4K model. I thought it sounded great. I think the main selling point of Kahayan over some other summing mixers or stereo 2 buss processors is the drive knob on the front where you can push the "mix bus." It does allow for a thicker/more driven color than some others. So, if you like the Neve console sound you'd go with the model in the first post here, if you like SSL you'd go with the Epsilon Limited 4000(16 channel summing) or their stereo ssl model, the Solid 4000. They also have more expensive models where you can have both flavors in one unit. I decided the stay with Dangerous summing at the time I tried the Kahayan mostly because I was so used to workin on it. I would have been happy moving forward with the Kahayan though and I've thought about giving it another run at some point.
As mentioned by others, there are more affordable units out there, I'd say Kahayan would be a good one to try for anyone that has tried other summing units and didn't really feel like you could hear a difference. This is a more noticeable sonic imprint in my experience.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 5, 2024 15:06:37 GMT -6
There’s no question the box imparts improved sonics, but I’m curious about the parts list as it can’t be that complicated a circuit: back to the cost point.
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Post by seawell on Jan 5, 2024 16:44:59 GMT -6
There’s no question the box imparts improved sonics, but I’m curious about the parts list as it can’t be that complicated a circuit: back to the cost point. I didn't take the lid off and see inside unfortunately. I also tried the Solid 4000 500 series(stereo) and didn't think it did as much as the Epsilon Limited 4000(16 channel summing). As far as parts go though, if they are being true to the console's design that's all we'd want in there, right? Definitely is pricey but could be just what someone who's not getting what they want ITB is lookin for. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 5, 2024 19:03:43 GMT -6
I think it sounds great, just curious what’s inside ?  |
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Post by poppaflavor on Jan 5, 2024 20:38:30 GMT -6
The iron age was $500 new before it was discontinued so that’s just a crazy reverb price That's just silly and delusional and will sit there for years. I love IAA and think it's an amazing box feature wise, probably sound wise too (I haven't heard one) however that Reverber is asking more than my complete little armada of real deal vintage pairs of St Ives, Triad (2 different types), and UTC (2 pairs) transformers. Not hard to wire transformers up. That's insane. Unreasonably unconscionable. I have one and love it dearly. It is indeed a sweet treat that tone shapes and *subtly* thicc-ifies in a indubitably incomprehensible manner... Until you spin a dial and flip a toggle, whereupon it becomes instinctively intuitive and integrates itself into the mindset and workflow. Lots of interactive settings though. Relatively clean Tilt? Yup, got it. Flat, but with a too-heavy load on its driver to deliver a seemingly more sleepier slew? Yep been there done that. Just utterly delightful. No one's getting this one from me :-) I've got a number of passive transfo boxes. But none have the flexibility or flavor of the PSS. |
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Post by poppaflavor on Jan 5, 2024 21:01:57 GMT -6
Ok back on topic.
The caveat/disclaimer at 1:50 in the video is concerning.
"Low" Drive delivers notable distortion? And we can go higher but there may be dragons?
I did appreciate the demo dialing though. It seems that there's a sweet spot there. I do wish there was some kind of side chain filtering. Seems like the lows were under appreciated in the compression response.
Sound came across really nice once the input drive was dialed down a bit, the wet was set low and it went with no transformer mode output. Otherwise it sounded a bit muddled at least in this listen through.
Perhaps this shouldn't be a criticism though because it seems like so many gear videos are dead set on delivering crunch at all costs.
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Post by Darren Boling on Jan 5, 2024 22:16:56 GMT -6
I see they do an SSL flavor in 500 series but if one wanted that and more you could run pairs of the LTL Mr. Focus modules. API, Neve, SSL, SuperFilter, with wet/dry, tilts and the ability to add any of the colour modules. Lots of options that sound great. I don't mean to dump on this box, just a lot of other choices that offer more bang for the buck.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 6, 2024 6:33:17 GMT -6
All good, perhaps I am misunderstanding this box but it’s sort of a summing box or 2 channels with good transformers ? I only referenced stam as I think his summing box is 16 channels all with name brand trannies too. So, the relative costs of these two units is what struck me. It’s a good demo as the unit certainly imparts better sound: if you were mixing in the box and wanted one box to bring some sonic goodness, this would do it, but at this price, I’d want to demo, as said above maybe ssl Fusion too. IME, unless a summing box has a tranny on every channel then in my experience a tranny on the stereo output of a box with 2 inputs or 16 inputs makes no difference. You don't get "separation" having 16 separate pieces of wire buffered to a stereo output - even it it sounds like you will coz they're "separate inputs" at least in my testing and experience. Does the Stam summer have a trafo on every input channel - that would add colouration like a desk. I don't think people want separation anyway, there's nothing more separate than the audio streams in a DAW - I think it's colouration and subtle cross talk - to give that desk feel. I gave up on summering mixers a long time ago and moved to tube and transformer compression and EQ on my stereo mix bus. So this box does get to that approach - al be it somewhat overpriced imho. |
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Post by lowlou on Jan 6, 2024 6:58:40 GMT -6
This Kahayan unit does not sum, it's 2 ins & 2 outs. It's for people that want a Neve-ish output section colour without the console. I'd insert it on the master track or on a group. SSL on drum group, Neve on instrument group, or the other way around, that kind of thing. I really want it but it's a bit too expensive I think  ! The Kahayan SSL R500 module is more affordable (but LTL Hitmakers colour modules might be as effective and cheaper ? I don't know, I can't compare). |
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 6, 2024 8:02:48 GMT -6
I can't imagine a lot of people are buying this at this price point when you see other available options.
For $1k why not.
Or this price but with preamps kind of like the silver bullet.
I've also done tests with summing boxes never really heard a difference between sending 16 tracks vs sending a stereo mix to 2 so for my use it just made more sense to use a 2 channel device ( except for the chandler mini mixer that has transfos on every channel and you can really shape a mix just with gain staging).
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 6, 2024 8:39:45 GMT -6
@hightener Here’s link to stam, 18 channels, 16 for sum, 2 for sub mix, api or neve stamaudio.com/shop/in-stock/sa-16-active-summing-amplifier/Technical Specs Active summing mixer 18 channels IC Technology Summing Amplifier Two SA-2520 Discrete Op-Amps Two BA-440 Discrete Cards Two Custom USA-Made Steel Output Transformers (American MOD) Two Custom EU-Made Output Transformers (British MOD) Balanced Stereo AUX Input Balanced Stereo AUX Output D-SUB 25-Pin Connector Standard, American (“A”-styled) and British (“N”-styled) Selectable Output Stage |
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! The Kahayan SSL R500 module is more affordable (but LTL Hitmakers colour modules might be as effective and cheaper ? I don't know, I can't compare).