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Post by ninworks on Dec 24, 2023 9:13:55 GMT -6
After I sold my NS10's I bought some Tannoy PBM8s. Sold them and bought some HR824's. Not the best speakers but good enough for me. I can acclimate to anything. I do a lot of checking mixes in headphones and get good results so I have no reason to upgrade at this point. If I were to fall into a pit full of money I would certainly upgrade, but nah, I don't need it, really.
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Post by subspace on Dec 24, 2023 10:38:44 GMT -6
Are Sony 7506's the NS-10's of headphones? I do like both 7506's and NS10s so you might be on to something here. Pretty much, I've run NS10s and 7506s since the 90s as mix refs. Wasn't really an NS10 guy but producers kept bringing them in so I added them as amenities. Switched from K240Ms to 7506s as artists seemed to enjoy the boom and zing of them and now they work like an instant car check for me.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2023 10:58:41 GMT -6
I’ve been running 7506’s exclusively for a couple year’s and that’s why I asked about peeps ns10 perspectives.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 24, 2023 14:01:17 GMT -6
Those 7506’s rip my head off. Can’t stand em, so zippoppy - instant pain for me.
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Post by drbill on Dec 24, 2023 15:11:11 GMT -6
Those 7506’s rip my head off. Can’t stand em, so zippoppy - instant pain for me. Ditto. Same holds for NS10's for me.
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Post by noob on Dec 24, 2023 19:47:54 GMT -6
I use CLA-10 Actives instead of NS10's. Love that they have an A/B Class amp built in. I keep the volume knob on the back at around 9 o'clock and the tissue paper knob around 3 o'clock. The key to getting a good mix on these is LOW volume playback and good mains for reference imo.
If they are ripping your head off, you are referencing way too loud. I understand the whole "if the cone shakes your low end is too much" old school thing, but that's what having a main reference is for. Find other ways to scope out your low end and keep the 10's at LOW volume, and they will translate like the Rosetta Stone.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 25, 2023 5:01:40 GMT -6
I use CLA-10 Actives instead of NS10's. Love that they have an A/B Class amp built in. I keep the volume knob on the back at around 9 o'clock and the tissue paper knob around 3 o'clock. The key to getting a good mix on these is LOW volume playback and good mains for reference imo. If they are ripping your head off, you are referencing way too loud. I understand the whole "if the cone shakes your low end is too much" old school thing, but that's what having a main reference is for. Find other ways to scope out your low end and keep the 10's at LOW volume, and they will translate like the Rosetta Stone. Though I have a decent range of monitor options, nothing beats donning my Sennhesier HD600’s and checking the low end on those. If there’s even just a touch too much low end it's immediately obvious.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 25, 2023 7:26:21 GMT -6
for volume and tone, they have that much detail ?
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Post by copperx on Dec 26, 2023 1:45:45 GMT -6
Those 7506’s rip my head off. Can’t stand em, so zippoppy - instant pain for me. Ditto. Same holds for NS10's for me. I'll never forget the first time I heard NS10s. I listened to them really quietly and got some crazy ear pain in both ears. I don't understand how can that happen. I was probably listening at 60-70 dB at 4 feet away. I don't get that pain anymore, but I don't understand how it happened. Could it have been the crazy sharp transients?
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 26, 2023 5:02:05 GMT -6
After I sold my NS10's I bought some Tannoy PBM8s. Sold them and bought some HR824's. Not the best speakers but good enough for me. I can acclimate to anything. I do a lot of checking mixes in headphones and get good results so I have no reason to upgrade at this point. If I were to fall into a pit full of money I would certainly upgrade, but nah, I don't need it, really. Oddly, I miss my HR824’s. Playback “Easy Lover” LOUD and the impact of those Phil Collins drums are fantastic. They’re not the most accurate monitors I’ve owned over the years but I thought they could deliver a very exciting big sound stage - I think it’s the passive woofer on the back?
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2023 5:55:05 GMT -6
Closed boxes with passive drivers can deliver tighter bass .
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Post by drumsound on Dec 26, 2023 11:15:38 GMT -6
Closed boxes with passive drivers can deliver tighter bass . I don't think I'd call HR824s tight in the bass region.
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 11:51:52 GMT -6
Closed boxes with passive drivers can deliver tighter bass . Closed box and Passive radiator are contradictory terms,a passive radiator is a variation on a port. A passive radiator uses a tuned radiator vs a tuned vent, the math is very similar, the biggest issue with passive radiators is you are introducing more variables to get the tuning right for consistent sample to sample LF response. With a port all I have to do if 2 woofers have a slight variation in response is vary the port length. With passive radiators I have to usually tune by adding mass to the passive radiator and the radiators themselves introduce their own variable response. I don’t find the best passive radiator builds to be any tighter than the best ported designs . The tightest is always a sealed box, but the trade off is LF extension.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2023 12:21:31 GMT -6
Closed boxes with passive drivers can deliver tighter bass . I don't think I'd call HR824s tight in the bass region. I was commenting on heightener’s comment and passive radiators have a different sound than ported monitors .
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2023 12:31:55 GMT -6
Closed boxes with passive drivers can deliver tighter bass . Closed box and Passive radiator are contradictory terms,a passive radiator is a variation on a port. A passive radiator uses a tuned radiator vs a tuned vent, the math is very similar, the biggest issue with passive radiators is you are introducing more variables to get the tuning right for consistent sample to sample LF response. With a port all I have to do if 2 woofers have a slight variation in response is vary the port length. With passive radiators I have to usually tune by adding mass to the passive radiator and the radiators themselves introduce their own variable response. I don’t find the best passive radiator builds to be any tighter than the best ported designs . The tightest is always a sealed box, but the trade off is LF extension. A port is open to airflow a passive radiator is not so closed: two very different things. Also, a passive radiator augments the waveform action in phase of the active speaker again very different thsn ports which extend the bass response: two different things. We are also talking about the experience of that monitor in a room. A ported speaker could excite the room more ( lower bass notes) a passive monitor less or the opposite could be true if the room has higher modes. There is also the issue of does a passive radiator reduce the excursion of the active woofer d the active woofer excursion so does one respond more quickly, with less overshoot? I’m sure you guys know all this stuff, was just highlighting reasons why passive radiator speaker could sound different, whether one prefers this, whole other question!
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 13:47:33 GMT -6
Closed box and Passive radiator are contradictory terms,a passive radiator is a variation on a port. A passive radiator uses a tuned radiator vs a tuned vent, the math is very similar, the biggest issue with passive radiators is you are introducing more variables to get the tuning right for consistent sample to sample LF response. With a port all I have to do if 2 woofers have a slight variation in response is vary the port length. With passive radiators I have to usually tune by adding mass to the passive radiator and the radiators themselves introduce their own variable response. I don’t find the best passive radiator builds to be any tighter than the best ported designs . The tightest is always a sealed box, but the trade off is LF extension. A port is open to airflow a passive radiator is not so closed: two very different things. Also, a passive radiator augments the waveform action in phase of the active speaker again very different thsn ports which extend the bass response: two different things. We are also talking about the experience of that monitor in a room. A ported speaker could excite the room more ( lower bass notes) a passive monitor less or the opposite could be true if the room has higher modes. There is also the issue of does a passive radiator reduce the excursion of the active woofer d the active woofer excursion so does one respond more quickly, with less overshoot? I’m sure you guys know all this stuff, was just highlighting reasons why passive radiator speaker could sound different, whether one prefers this, while other question! While yes the box is physically sealed, a passive radiator doesn’t function as sealed enclosure it functions just like a port. This is why every book and modeling software treats it like a port. A passive radiator like a port operates out of phase of the woofer at its tuned frequency. The idea that a rear mounted passive radiator ( or port) will operate in phase with the front firing woofer only holds true if the baffle is smaller than the wavelength at the tuned frequency ( at say 50HZ your talking a baffle of 11.2 ft in each direction) , but a front mounted radiator will be out of phase of the woofer just like a port, but remember this is in phase with the woofer at its lowest frequency, not absolute phase. This why you don’t see rear ports or passive radiators in SR subs. You actually might array enough to end up with an effective baffle larger than the wave length of the system. You can get funky with DSP and try to correct the phase but it really gets messy, in most cases you are probably going to have a high pass filter, plus probably a bit of EQ boost and then a all pass and if you try to introduce a phase alignment all pass the actual phase response just gets nasty, been there tried to do it won’t ever again.. The advantage of a passive radiator is it eliminates port Chuffing, but a well executed port can do the same. So yes while the box is theoretically sealed ( go measure the back of an NS10 and you will understand the theoretical qualification) it functions just like a port and in the world of speaker design is considered a ported cabinet. I’m actually suprised in an age of precision molded cabinets and modern drivers with tighter tolerances that we don’t see more Passive radiators, my hunch is it’s the fact that porting a molded cabinet is cheap. Even in the world of traditional wood cabinets port tubes are cheaper than passive radiators and fasteners.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2023 14:48:16 GMT -6
As it doesn’t allow for air flow, I respectfully disagree, but I take your point and do defer to your extensive knowledge in this area. i just know my user experience in my room with front, back ported and passive radiator monitors, my preference would be passive, front and then rear and this would be because of perceived tightness and clarity of bass, but I understand this experience was also a function of my room and stating my favs anywhere were atc25’s in a professional control room is a bit: ah duh !!!
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2023 16:51:37 GMT -6
As it doesn’t allow for air flow, I respectfully disagree, but I take your point and do defer to your extensive knowledge in this area. i just know my user experience in my room with front, back ported and passive radiator monitors, my preference would be passive, front and then rear and this would be because of perceived tightness and clarity of bass, but I understand this experience was also a function of my room and stating my favs anywhere were atc25’s in a professional control room is a bit: ah duh !!! I understand your point, sit down with a freeware Thiele Small calculator that will let you do Passive radiators and ports and you will understand why they are grouped together. A more definitive term might be tuned renosnace cabinets? The Mackie’s do seam to perform better than most in non optimal environments, unfortunately they don’t improve much in well designed rooms.
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