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Post by plinker on Dec 15, 2023 8:47:26 GMT -6
Martin, I recently purchased one of these (with a $20 Cyber Monday discount): www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1727972-REG/sandisk_professional_sdps31h_002t_gbcnd_2tb_pro_g40_ssd_thunderbolt.htmlIt's TB3, and is blazingly fast on my M1. Thunderbolt drives are finally coming down in price. Note that, if you hook ANY usb SSD up to the TB ports, the port becomes a USB 3.1 bus -- which is terribly slow compared to TB3 or TB4. So, even if it's a super-fast USB 3.2 or USB4 drive, it will be crippled down to USB 3.1 speeds. Before I bought the TB3 drive I bought an expensive USB 3.2 drive, not knowing this would happen...sucks! There is no comparison in speed between TB3 and USB 3.1, so I would highly recommend purchasing a genuine TB3/4 drive for your shiny new mini! edit: everything I wrote there applies only to the older M1 mini. The newer versions of the mini might have fixed the USB crippling thing. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 15, 2023 8:56:56 GMT -6
Will look into it, thanks Plinker.
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Post by plinker on Dec 15, 2023 8:58:06 GMT -6
That guy in the thread didn’t understand rosetta mode at all. Can you provide more info? I think things have changed in Logic since the initial release of the silicon processors that you and I both have (m1 mini). There's a lot of info out there saying that Logic has since been updated to run non-native plugins in a Rosetta sandbox. I don't use many plugs, so can't easily do a test. I know that, when I originally installed Logic Pro on my new M1 mini, I had to run it in Rosetta mode because of some plugs. However, that's not the case anymore -- and I have no idea what the state of my 10 external plugins is either. Maybe there were all upgraded to native when I wasn't paying attention ?? |
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Post by plinker on Dec 15, 2023 9:29:48 GMT -6
I found an old version of the Sonarworks plug. When I instantiate it in Logic, the "AUHostingCompatibilityService (Logic Pro)" process appears in the Activity Monitor. When I remove (not disable) the old Sonarworks plugin, the process goes away.
The AUHostingCompatibilityService is the process that runs Rosetta (sandboxed) for the non-native plugin, while allowing Logic to stay in native mode.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2023 9:55:32 GMT -6
That guy in the thread didn’t understand rosetta mode at all. Can you provide more info? I think things have changed in Logic since the initial release of the silicon processors that you and I both have (m1 mini). There's a lot of info out there saying that Logic has since been updated to run non-native plugins in a Rosetta sandbox. I don't use many plugs, so can't easily do a test. I know that, when I originally installed Logic Pro on my new M1 mini, I had to run it in Rosetta mode because of some plugs. However, that's not the case anymore -- and I have no idea what the state of my 10 external plugins is either. Maybe there were all upgraded to native when I wasn't paying attention ?? I had just set rosetta on computer, so it was running rosetta, never set logic or any plug in and other than your link have never seen any reference to rosetta being unique to say one plug, while everything else was silicone. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2023 9:58:07 GMT -6
I found an old version of the Sonarworks plug. When I instantiate it in Logic, the "AUHostingCompatibilityService (Logic Pro)" process appears in the Activity Monitor. When I remove (not disable) the old Sonarworks plugin, the process goes away. The AUHostingCompatibilityService is the process that runs Rosetta (sandboxed) for the non-native plugin, while allowing Logic to stay in native mode. Isn’t there a silicon approved sonarworks ? I don’t get the keeping older plugs on an m silicon part: I just loaded what was going to work in silicon and moved on!  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2023 9:59:29 GMT -6
That guy in the thread didn’t understand rosetta mode at all. Can you provide more info? I think things have changed in Logic since the initial release of the silicon processors that you and I both have (m1 mini). There's a lot of info out there saying that Logic has since been updated to run non-native plugins in a Rosetta sandbox. I don't use many plugs, so can't easily do a test. I know that, when I originally installed Logic Pro on my new M1 mini, I had to run it in Rosetta mode because of some plugs. However, that's not the case anymore -- and I have no idea what the state of my 10 external plugins is either. Maybe there were all upgraded to native when I wasn't paying attention ?? You would need to have downloaded and installed them from the brand’s website. |
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Post by plinker on Dec 15, 2023 10:13:44 GMT -6
I'll try to consolidate responses, and please excuse me if I'm not understanding you correctly:
"I had just set rosetta on computer, so it was running rosetta, never set logic or any plug in and other than your link have never seen any reference to rosetta being unique to say one plug, while everything else was silicone."
I see. Yes; you no longer need to run the MacOS in Rosetta, even if you have non-native software on the machine. You can now run individual, non-native, applications in Rosetta, by themselves. So, Logic can be running natively while another application is running in the Rosetta emulator.
I recommend you turn Rosetta off at the OS level -- I'm not sure how you do that -- and run only non-native apps in Rosetta mode.
"Isn’t there a silicon approved sonarworks ? I don’t get the keeping older plugs on an m silicon part: I just loaded what was going to work in silicon and moved on!"
Yes; but to test the theory that Logic will run non-native plugins in a Rosetta sandbox I ran an old, non-native version of Sonarworks. Logic instantiated a process called AUHostingCompatibilityService to run the old, non-native plugin. That process is the Rosetta sandbox. When I remove the old Sonarworks plugin from the Logic session, the Rosetta process goes away.
"You would need to have downloaded and installed them from the brand’s website."
I see. Yes; I installed the latest Sonarworks plugin, but kept the old one just in case. That's why I still had it available. It's the only non-native plugin in my small library.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2023 14:33:36 GMT -6
I don’t want to run rosetta and I think we understand this differently.
sSilicon approved software doesn’t need to be reskinned by Rosetta to run, it just runs.
Only software written for intel chips needs Rosetta to run on a silicon mac. My understanding is that the reskinning inefficiency only happens the first time you open intel software on a silicon mac , then the reskinned version is saved.
I never noticed any big negative performance affects running rosetta. I think because almost all of my software was silicon certified.
Anyway, the only reason, I commented was to encourage Martin to only load silicon approved software, if possible.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 15, 2023 17:10:35 GMT -6
I no longer have any Waves plug-ins, but I may have a few that aren't silicone ready. I'll look into it when I begin the switch. I have to think on getting an external disk drive now. Finding a thunderbolt drive sounds like a good idea. I hope it's not too expensive when compared to the USB type drives.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 15, 2023 17:33:16 GMT -6
I no longer have any Waves plug-ins, but I may have a few that aren't silicone ready. I'll look into it when I begin the switch. I have to think on getting an external disk drive now. Finding a thunderbolt drive sounds like a good idea. I hope it's not too expensive when compared to the USB type drives. I agree with plinker on a lot of stuff, but this is one area where I would differ: In your use case, Martin John Butler, I don’t think you necessarily need a Thunderbolt drive. I mean, if the cost is close, then sure, go for it - they’re faster for streaming samples from a drive for VIs. But a cheap Samsung T7 SSD will be waaaaaaay more than fast enough for audio recording. You can get a 2TB T7 for $130 from Amazon right now. I say get two of those: one for recording and one for a clone of your recording drive. Done. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2023 20:14:14 GMT -6
You don’t need a thunderbolt drive, mine is usb, never a problem.
1 tb cable to interface, 1 hdmi to monitor, 1 usb to drive or 2 if you are ganging.
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Post by lee on Dec 15, 2023 23:07:39 GMT -6
I no longer have any Waves plug-ins, but I may have a few that aren't silicone ready. I'll look into it when I begin the switch. I have to think on getting an external disk drive now. Finding a thunderbolt drive sounds like a good idea. I hope it's not too expensive when compared to the USB type drives. I agree with plinker on a lot of stuff, but this is one area where I would differ: In your use case, Martin John Butler , I don’t think you necessarily need a Thunderbolt drive. I mean, if the cost is close, then sure, go for it - they’re faster for streaming samples from a drive for VIs. But a cheap Samsung T7 SSD will be waaaaaaay more than fast enough for audio recording. You can get a 2TB T7 for $130 from Amazon right now. I say get two of those: one for recording and one for a clone of your recording drive. Done. Agree with this. I do everything on T7s (or earlier) and the drive itself has never been a bottleneck. USB-C is plenty fast. I frequently run sessions with over 225 tracks (voices) with no problem. Thunderbolt is really not necessary. |
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Post by plinker on Dec 16, 2023 9:01:26 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with USB or T7 drives. However, my point is that on the M1 Mini, the USB-C ports are crippled. It doesn't matter how fast the USB drive is, the M1 Mini will only get up to about 5 Gbps (USB Gen 1). That beautiful Samsung T7 drive is rated at 10 Gbps. On the M1 Mini, you will only get half that speed, at best. Maybe that's enough for Martin -- I don't know. However, TB drives running through the same port are not crippled and run at full speed. That TB3 Sandisk drive is 4 TIMES FASTER than the Samsung T7, on the M1 Mini !!! 
My mini is the backbone of my house, so it's worth the extra cost for me. For Martin, or anyone else, I dunno. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 16, 2023 15:37:28 GMT -6
What tb drive are you running ?
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Post by plinker on Dec 16, 2023 16:12:31 GMT -6
What tb drive are you running ? The sandisk one that I linked. I bought it for $222 on Cyber Monday. There’s some unboxed ones on eBay for $209. I might grab another. Sandisk was bought by Western Digital. |
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Post by plinker on Dec 16, 2023 17:06:59 GMT -6
On a positive mini note, the mini TB ports are on their own independent busses. So, even if you plug a USB drive into one, the other one still runs full TB throughput.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 16, 2023 17:27:07 GMT -6
What tb drive are you running ? The sandisk one that I linked. I bought it for $222 on Cyber Monday. There’s some unboxed ones on eBay for $209. I might grab another. Sandisk was bought by Western Digital. Thx! |
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Post by plinker on Dec 16, 2023 23:49:24 GMT -6
The sandisk one that I linked. I bought it for $222 on Cyber Monday. There’s some unboxed ones on eBay for $209. I might grab another. Sandisk was bought by Western Digital. Thx! I think i may have just purchased the last one from that eBay seller. 🤪 |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 17, 2023 1:00:24 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with USB or T7 drives. However, my point is that on the M1 Mini, the USB-C ports are crippled. It doesn't matter how fast the USB drive is, the M1 Mini will only get up to about 5 Gbps (USB Gen 1). That beautiful Samsung T7 drive is rated at 10 Gbps. On the M1 Mini, you will only get half that speed, at best. Maybe that's enough for Martin -- I don't know. However, TB drives running through the same port are not crippled and run at full speed. That TB3 Sandisk drive is 4 TIMES FASTER than the Samsung T7, on the M1 Mini !!!
My mini is the backbone of my house, so it's worth the extra cost for me. For Martin, or anyone else, I dunno. No worries, Jim - I certainly don't disagree with your overall point. My thought was simply twofold: First, I can literally edit 8k ProRes 422HQ video at 24fps with no dropped frames off of a Samsung T5 running at 380MB/s on my Mac Mini M1 (the 5Gbps limit on that machine's TB ports when being utilized as USB ports equals about 625MB/s), and that is far more arduous a data transmission task than anything audio related will ever be; and secondly, knowing Martin's current situation as I do, I know economy is important in his world right now.
But of course you're right that the TB3 Sandisk drive will have higher overall data throughput - no question about that at all!
Congrats on getting a couple of them yourself! I may try to grab one for streaming samples from disk. Speed definitely counts there...
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Post by plinker on Dec 20, 2023 9:31:50 GMT -6
No problemo, Mark. I didn't realize you were using an M1, so I thought maybe you weren't aware of the limitations of the ports. Also, I completely agree that if the drive is to be used for audio only, and there are any financial constraints, then the Samsung T7 is a powerful option. Update on performance: The M1 TB/USB-C ports speed problems are particular to the drive being connected. Some older SSDs, that should get 10 Gbps speeds don't perform well (like one that I have), while newer drives perform fine. According to this MacRumors thread, the Samsung T7 performs well on the M1: forums.macrumors.com/threads/samsung-t7-with-mini-m1.2270233/Rock on! |
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Post by bluesholyman on Dec 21, 2023 6:26:20 GMT -6
I also hope that switching computers doesn't set off a plethora of issues regarding all my plug-ins. Hopefully I don't have to reach out to 3rd party plug-in companies for authorization codes for years old plugs. I just did this switch from a Macbook Pro (i7) to an M2 Mini and using Migration assistant, it was relatively painless. However, some things installed on my i7 (intel x86) MBP needed to be reinstalled on the mini, because the M1/M2s are Apple Silicon (different architecture.) Minimal pain, but something to be aware of. iLok complained the first time I tried to run it, something about new computer, etc., but then I logged out, logged back in, and after a minute or so of thinking about it, it decided I was legit and everything was as it was before. I just made sure iLok didnd't have anything on the computer itself. Things in iLok cloud or the ilok dongle were fine. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 21, 2023 16:22:35 GMT -6
Thanks bluesholyman!
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Post by plinker on Dec 21, 2023 17:09:25 GMT -6
Martin, you're going to love that M1 mini. I'm a particularly picky bitch when it comes to computers, and it is, simply, the finest computer I've ever owned.
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