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Post by mike on Nov 30, 2023 11:58:07 GMT -6
FYI from the IRS Link below> Following feedback from taxpayers, tax professionals, and payment processors and to reduce taxpayer confusion, the Internal Revenue Service delayed the new $600 Form 1099-K reporting threshold requirement for third party payment organizations for tax year 2023 and is planning a threshold of $5,000 for 2024 to phase in the new law.(So for 2023 and prior years, payment apps and online marketplaces are only required to send out Forms 1099-K to taxpayers who receive over $20,000 and have over 200 transactions. For tax year 2024, the IRS plans a threshold of $5,000 to phase in reporting requirements.) Taxpayers should be aware that while the reporting threshold remains over $20,000 and 200 transactions for 2023, companies could still issue the form for any amount.
It's important to note that the higher threshold does not affect the actual tax law to report income on your tax return. All income, no matter the amount, is taxable unless it's excluded by law whether a Form 1099-K is sent or not. IRS LINK
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2023 12:32:13 GMT -6
Oh good! Man, I'd have been more aggressive in my selling if I knew this at the beginning of the year. Happy to see it raise to $5k though.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2023 13:33:00 GMT -6
KC has the second biggest IRS office so I have heard rumblings that something was going to happen all year. The problem is simple your going to increase the paper in a huge way with out a massive hiring of new people? Yeah that makes sense 🤪
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Post by chumley56 on Nov 30, 2023 15:40:25 GMT -6
Thanks for posting this. I've been waiting to sell a bunch of stuff.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 30, 2023 15:55:40 GMT -6
Just remember, guys: You still owe the tax, same as every year. It's just that they won't have a way of checking up on you for 2023. Whether you decide to pay your taxes or not is up to you, but the tax law itself has not changed for individuals.
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Post by seawell on Nov 30, 2023 16:32:25 GMT -6
Just remember, guys: You still owe the tax, same as every year. It's just that they won't have a way of checking up on you for 2023. Whether you decide to pay your taxes or not is up to you, but the tax law itself has not changed for individuals. 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 30, 2023 17:54:11 GMT -6
FYI from the IRS Link below> Following feedback from taxpayers, tax professionals, and payment processors and to reduce taxpayer confusion, the Internal Revenue Service delayed the new $600 Form 1099-K reporting threshold requirement for third party payment organizations for tax year 2023 and is planning a threshold of $5,000 for 2024 to phase in the new law.(So for 2023 and prior years, payment apps and online marketplaces are only required to send out Forms 1099-K to taxpayers who receive over $20,000 and have over 200 transactions. For tax year 2024, the IRS plans a threshold of $5,000 to phase in reporting requirements.) Taxpayers should be aware that while the reporting threshold remains over $20,000 and 200 transactions for 2023, companies could still issue the form for any amount.
It's important to note that the higher threshold does not affect the actual tax law to report income on your tax return. All income, no matter the amount, is taxable unless it's excluded by law whether a Form 1099-K is sent or not. IRS LINK So if I sell $20k worth (this year) of personal items, that I already paid taxes on (when new or used) or $5k worth (possibly starting next year and into the future) of personal items, that I already paid taxes on (when new or used), and I’ve not made a profit on any of it, I’d have to prove that I didn’t profit from any of it, even if it’s been beyond 7-years that I bought the any of the items, should the I get a 1099 from one of these entities? So I should be from now on, and always should have been, Schedule-Cing absolutely all personal purchases (new and used) with the IRS and state? This sound right? Am I missing anything? This is sounding ridiculous. $20k sounds reasonable. $5k still doesn’t.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2023 18:00:08 GMT -6
FYI from the IRS Link below> Following feedback from taxpayers, tax professionals, and payment processors and to reduce taxpayer confusion, the Internal Revenue Service delayed the new $600 Form 1099-K reporting threshold requirement for third party payment organizations for tax year 2023 and is planning a threshold of $5,000 for 2024 to phase in the new law.(So for 2023 and prior years, payment apps and online marketplaces are only required to send out Forms 1099-K to taxpayers who receive over $20,000 and have over 200 transactions. For tax year 2024, the IRS plans a threshold of $5,000 to phase in reporting requirements.) Taxpayers should be aware that while the reporting threshold remains over $20,000 and 200 transactions for 2023, companies could still issue the form for any amount.
It's important to note that the higher threshold does not affect the actual tax law to report income on your tax return. All income, no matter the amount, is taxable unless it's excluded by law whether a Form 1099-K is sent or not. IRS LINK So if I sell $20k worth (this year) of personal items, that I already paid taxes on (when new or used) or $5k worth (possibly starting next year and into the future) of personal items, that I already paid taxes on (when new or used), and I’ve not made a profit on any of it, I’d have to prove that I didn’t profit from any of it, even if it was past 7-years that I bought the any of the items, in the case I get a 1099? So I should be from now on, and always should have been, Schedule-Cing absolutely all personal purchases (new and used) with the IRS and state? This sound right? Am I missing anything? Yep it’s always been on you to prove you didn’t profit, now the government is making the platforms provide a paper trail, so keep those receipts so you can prove you didn’t profit.
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 30, 2023 18:08:44 GMT -6
Yep it’s always been on you to prove you didn’t profit, now the government is making the platforms provide a paper trail, so keep those receipts so you can prove you didn’t profit. Except if I’m 1099’d, how do I NOT pay those taxes on the profits that I can prove don’t exist with my receipts? What’s that process?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2023 18:22:03 GMT -6
Yep it’s always been on you to prove you didn’t profit, now the government is making the platforms provide a paper trail, so keep those receipts so you can prove you didn’t profit. Except if I’m 1099’d, how do I NOT pay those taxes on the profits that I can prove don’t exist with my receipts? What’s that process? I’m. Not exactly sure but, I’m not an accountant, but I recommend finding one. Remember a 1099 shows income not profit. What you really have to ask yourself is X dollars worth paying a accountant and documenting everything. The good news is in the digital age dealers can generate a copy of the receipt for everything.
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Post by seawell on Nov 30, 2023 18:50:12 GMT -6
Shouldn’t our industry be considered non-profit by now? 🤣
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Post by chessparov on Nov 30, 2023 20:04:14 GMT -6
C Senor. 501 C.
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2023 20:22:33 GMT -6
Exactly. It's not based on sales, but on profit. The bitch of it is finding the original sales receipt of the item yo purchased. Thanks to inflation, showing a profit is easier than not.
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 30, 2023 21:13:44 GMT -6
Except if I’m 1099’d, how do I NOT pay those taxes on the profits that I can prove don’t exist with my receipts? What’s that process? I’m. Not exactly sure but, I’m not an accountant, but I recommend finding one. Remember a 1099 shows income not profit. What you really have to ask yourself is X dollars worth paying an accountant and documenting everything. The good news is in the digital age dealers can generate a copy of the receipt for everything. Herein lays the problem and why people are upset. Every day people with just a day job and a W2 and file the most simple and straightforward 1040 every year need an accountant when they’re NOT running a business at all? The above does not apply to me and it’s still very upsetting.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2023 21:52:52 GMT -6
I’m. Not exactly sure but, I’m not an accountant, but I recommend finding one. Remember a 1099 shows income not profit. What you really have to ask yourself is X dollars worth paying an accountant and documenting everything. The good news is in the digital age dealers can generate a copy of the receipt for everything. Herein lays the problem and why people are upset. Every day people with just a day job and a W2 and file the most simple and straightforward 1040 every year need an accountant when they’re NOT running a business at all? The above does not apply to me and it’s still very upsetting. I don’t disagree, but one of the biggest problems has been the honor system hasn’t worked.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 30, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -6
This is going to be a gross oversimplification, but...
You are required to pay taxes on any income you have for the year. (Note that financial gifts are not "income," and do not count as such.)
If people are paying you to record them, compose for them, write for them, or consult for them, then in the eyes of the IRS, you have a business. If you write and/or record your own music with any reasonable plan to make money from such activity either now or in the future, in the eyes of the IRS, you have a business.
You must report your yearly financial activity in your tax return. Income or loss can most simply be reported via Schedule C on personal income taxes (unless you have incorporated your business).
To fill out a Schedule C, you do not have to write down every set of guitar strings or plugin you purchased as a line item. You should have your own records of that in some way, but in this day and age that's pretty simple--there's always an email receipt somewhere. You can group all kinds of expenses together and add them up, such as "Software for music production = $834," or "Music supplies = $2065," (where "music supplies" might be everything from guitar strings to cabling to hard drives).
If, as part of your financial activity in pursuing income from music, you sell a piece of equipment, then any money you got from that sale goes in your "income" column. But likewise, if you use that money to buy another piece of gear, then that outflow of money goes in your "expenses" column. (Things can get more complicated here, like if you chose to expense an item out over several tax years but then sold the item before you fully wrote it off, or if you bought some Neve 10xxs 25 yrs ago and sold them this year for a lot more than you paid for them obviously.)
I know this often sounds like a harsh reality of the tax code, but there really are benefits to the way this is all done. If your financial activity qualifies you as a "business," then that means you can also take a business loss some years and pay nothing. If you did a significant amount of physical work in your studio this year (building a new studio, hiring an acoustician to help redo the room over your garage, etc.), you will almost certainly have a business LOSS. And if your spouse has a job where taxes were withheld from their paycheck, you might get a very nice chunk of change back from the IRS in a loss year for your business.
All that said, I am not defending the current US Tax code. Just explaining a tiny bit of how it affects us, as written. Personally, I think the complexity of the US Tax code is f'n insane. I am astonished every year at how many provisions there are in the US Tax code for individuals who own fishing boats. It is bonkers, and the code does not reflect the reality that most Americans live, financially speaking.
Don't shoot the messenger.
EDIT: Just to add this - the smartest and easiest organizing tool you can do for yourself is opening a separate bank account for all music-related activity. Don't ever pay for anything else out of that account except for music-related expenses (and there are a ton of those). And when you make a gear sale or a client pays you for the mixes you delivered, ALWAYS deposit that money in the music bank account. It makes tracking everything sooooooo much easier.
EDIT 2: Oh, and "music-related activity" in the paragraph above can be interpreted quite widely. You took a trip to Nashville this year to tour some studios and try out a bunch of mics at Vintage King? Well guess what, that was a business trip. Your mileage (or airfare), your hotel, etc. - those are all business expenses.
EDIT 3: Seriously, please don't shoot the messenger.
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 30, 2023 22:49:39 GMT -6
It all makes sense to me for business… But it 100% applies to non-business. That’s the upsetting part.
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Post by doubledog on Dec 1, 2023 9:20:14 GMT -6
excellent news!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2023 10:00:31 GMT -6
It all makes sense to me for business… But it 100% applies to non-business. That’s the upsetting part. I don’t disagree with you, but what the government is telling you via the 1099 rules and has for years just hasn’t really screamed it till now, is $609 bucks in income per year means you have to prove your not in business.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 1, 2023 10:45:48 GMT -6
It all makes sense to me for business… But it 100% applies to non-business. That’s the upsetting part. I don’t disagree with you, but what the government is telling you via the 1099 rules and has for years just hasn’t really screamed it till now, is $609 bucks in income per year means you have to prove your not in business. Personally, I would go further than that, Eric. If you receive a 1099 from someone, that’s almost proof positive that you ARE a business. Because that means someone hired you in a professional manner. EDIT: and obviously that’s what the real debate here is about, right? Reverb and eBay being required to file a 1099-K for anyone with sales above a certain threshold.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 1, 2023 10:49:59 GMT -6
It all makes sense to me for business… But it 100% applies to non-business. That’s the upsetting part. I refer you back to my first paragraph: “You are required to pay taxes on any income you have for the year. (Note that financial gifts are not "income," and do not count as such.)” It doesn’t matter whether you’re calling yourself a business or not. The IRS requires you to pay taxes on any income you have for the year. If you received a 1099 from someone, that means by definition that it was income.
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Post by seawell on Dec 1, 2023 11:13:52 GMT -6
Sounds like we should start a "RGO gift exchange" section in the classifieds
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Post by recordingengineer on Dec 1, 2023 11:27:13 GMT -6
you have to prove your not in business. Let that sink in.
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Post by recordingengineer on Dec 1, 2023 11:34:12 GMT -6
If you receive a 1099 from someone, that’s almost proof positive that you ARE a business. Because that means someone hired you in a professional manner. Absolutely not anymore. That’s what’s crazy.
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Post by recordingengineer on Dec 1, 2023 11:46:15 GMT -6
I refer you back to my first paragraph: “You are required to pay taxes on any income you have for the year. (Note that financial gifts are not "income," and do not count as such.)” It doesn’t matter whether you’re calling yourself a business or not. The IRS requires you to pay taxes on any income you have for the year. If you received a 1099 from someone, that means by definition that it was income. Which one is it? Income or profit? The point is: They’re MAKING them 1099 someone as if it’s proof that it’s profit income. The key word here is profit. What’s the process when a person has been 1099’d, is not a business, it’s absolutely not profit, and can prove it all?
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