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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 8, 2014 9:16:12 GMT -6
Shannon has my SDC, so I haven't tried this, but can I use phantom power through my patchbay? so if I turn on phantom power and plug in the mic from the PB, will it work?
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Post by mobeach on Jul 8, 2014 9:33:18 GMT -6
I heard yes for XLR, No for TRS.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 8, 2014 9:33:25 GMT -6
Do you have an XLR patchbay that you're plugging mics into that go to the input of your pres? Then a TRS patchbay that the output of the pre is going to?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 8, 2014 9:50:27 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 8, 2014 10:13:41 GMT -6
I don't think you'll want to run Phantom through there. My understanding is that Phantom should only go through XLR connections (as mobeach said above) to avoid a short when plugging things in. XLR all connects at the same time, TRS connects via tip, then ring, then sleeve. I could be off base, and there are probably better equipped people to answer, but I would avoid it. Normally, people set up an XLR patchbay normalled to the inputs of the pres, then out into a TRS or TT patchbay. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 10:47:10 GMT -6
i would never run phantom through patchbay, always run your mic cables directly into you pre's via a back panel extension(front facing xlr jack panel), or get behind the rack and plug it in.
The outputs of your pres are run to the patchbay and generally directly normalled to a designated input on the multi track , the inputs of the pre's are not run through the patchbay.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 10:55:13 GMT -6
To clarify, this xlr/line input panel goes directly to the input on the pres, not through the patchbay. Attachment Deleted |
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Post by mulmany on Jul 8, 2014 10:56:20 GMT -6
You are fine to run phantom through any TRS bay. You just have to make sure that phantom is off before patching/unpatching. I never saw a console that did not run its own 48v through its own patch bay. No different, just always be mindful when patching.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 11:08:53 GMT -6
You are fine to run phantom through any TRS bay. You just have to make sure that phantom is off before patching/unpatching. I never saw a console that did not run its own 48v through its own patch bay. No different, just always be mindful when patching. disagree, we're getting 150ohm mic cables, why would anyone do this? it can introduce a bunch of potential problems, and it's utterly un needed. IMO just don't do it. |
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Post by mulmany on Jul 8, 2014 11:15:53 GMT -6
You are fine to run phantom through any TRS bay. You just have to make sure that phantom is off before patching/unpatching. I never saw a console that did not run its own 48v through its own patch bay. No different, just always be mindful when patching. disagree, we're getting 150ohm mic cables, why would anyone do this? it can introduce a bunch of potential problems, and it's utterly un needed. IMO just don't do it. Well I am not saying that it is the best solution, but every major true console manufacturer has a patch bay with phantom flowing on the mic input jacks. They spec out the console in that configuration. Just saying ;-) |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 8, 2014 11:16:47 GMT -6
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Post by btreim on Jul 8, 2014 11:59:45 GMT -6
I for one have always ran phantom through patchbays with no problem. Like mulmany said, patch first then switch 48v on and off.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 12:25:04 GMT -6
I for one have always ran phantom through patchbays with no problem. Like mulmany said, patch first then switch 48v on and off. ... and load up capacitance on your mic cable, break the shielding, and introduce a significantly high 48 voltage into you patching system that could zap you, cause noise, pop the ribbon right out of a mic... amongst other pitfalls. It also takes quite a bit MORE labor to make these extra connections...for what benefit? Unless someone can provide a very compelling reason to do this(someone well could?), None for me thanx. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 12:48:13 GMT -6
In my opinion one good and very practicable way to handle mic connections without having to crawl behind a pre rack or console is the good old stage box.
Just saying...
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 12:53:49 GMT -6
In my opinion one good and very practicable way to handle mic connections without having to crawl behind a pre rack or console is the good old stage box. Just saying... Yeah!!! what's a stage box? 8) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 13:06:47 GMT -6
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Post by warren on Jul 8, 2014 13:13:19 GMT -6
I'm with mulmany and btreim on this one, just make sure it's off first then patch.
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Post by btreim on Jul 8, 2014 13:31:25 GMT -6
I for one have always ran phantom through patchbays with no problem. Like mulmany said, patch first then switch 48v on and off. ... and load up capacitance on your mic cable, break the shielding, and introduce a significantly high 48 voltage into you patching system that could zap you, cause noise, pop the ribbon right out of a mic... amongst other pitfalls. It also takes quite a bit MORE labor to make these extra connections...for what benefit? Unless someone can provide a very compelling reason to do this(someone well could?), None for me thanx. Why would it break shielding unless there was a faulty jack or you are hot patching (assuming you're using TRS patch cables)? And with being zapped, I can't think of any situation where this would happen outside of equipment failure and again if you're hot patching. What extra connections are you making? You're either wiring up a front facing XLR panel (in your case) or stuffing an Elco connector. The benefit is flexibility and the fact that you don't have to have a front facing XLR input for every mic pre in your studio, which if you're in something larger than a home studio or overdub room would get very large, very quickly. Not to mention the process of getting getting your mic lines run to the front of your panel (if you're not in a home studio and have snakes run to multiple rooms). I can't think of one studio I have tracked in that hasn't had the mic pre inputs come up on a patchbay. Including OceanWay A which I would have to assume is setup correctly. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 8, 2014 13:47:32 GMT -6
While I recommend a quality TT bay for mic patching if the grounding is done properly. Your generic TRS bay lacks the proper grounding for phantom power.
Take a look at mister Patchbays site.
The XLR bay would eliminate any chance of there ever being a problem, but for most having 2 standards of bays and lack of switching jacks a deal breaker.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 13:49:30 GMT -6
due to the same concerns I see here, when I bought my TRS patch bay, I also bought a separate XLR patch bay. The XLR only touches mic connects and Mic Pre inputs. It is REALLY nice to just click into the rack. Easy.
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Post by svart on Jul 8, 2014 14:14:09 GMT -6
I run my preamps through TT patchbays. No problems here. typical noise floor from the *quiet* mics like my Gefells are in the -95db range through most of my preamps. No issues with RFI/EMI or anything else.
With the 6.8K resistors in series with the phantom sources on most preamps, shorting for the period of time needed to plug something is not a big deal, however, I would still turn off the phantom prior to (un)plugging anyway.
Shielding being open for a short distance isn't that big of a deal on truly differential mic signals and is only slightly more important on impedance balanced(but not differential) signals. Just make sure it's grounded.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you were getting a real issue with crosstalk or noise ingress.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 8, 2014 14:52:04 GMT -6
While I recommend a quality TT bay for mic patching if the grounding is done properly. Your generic TRS bay lacks the proper grounding for phantom power. Take a look at mister Patchbays site. The XLR bay would eliminate any chance of there ever being a problem, but for most having 2 standards of bays and lack of switching jacks a deal breaker. Please don't tell me this now that I've bought $500 worth of cables for this thing... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 15:33:54 GMT -6
... and load up capacitance on your mic cable, break the shielding, and introduce a significantly high 48 voltage into you patching system that could zap you, cause noise, pop the ribbon right out of a mic... amongst other pitfalls. It also takes quite a bit MORE labor to make these extra connections...for what benefit? Unless someone can provide a very compelling reason to do this(someone well could?), None for me thanx. Why would it break shielding unless there was a faulty jack or you are hot patching (assuming you're using TRS patch cables)? And with being zapped, I can't think of any situation where this would happen outside of equipment failure and again if you're hot patching. What extra connections are you making? You're either wiring up a front facing XLR panel (in your case) or stuffing an Elco connector. The benefit is flexibility and the fact that you don't have to have a front facing XLR input for every mic pre in your studio, which if you're in something larger than a home studio or overdub room would get very large, very quickly. Not to mention the process of getting getting your mic lines run to the front of your panel (if you're not in a home studio and have snakes run to multiple rooms). I can't think of one studio I have tracked in that hasn't had the mic pre inputs come up on a patchbay. Including OceanWay A which I would have to assume is setup correctly. Cool, go nutz! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 8, 2014 16:30:01 GMT -6
While I recommend a quality TT bay for mic patching if the grounding is done properly. Your generic TRS bay lacks the proper grounding for phantom power. Take a look at mister Patchbays site. The XLR bay would eliminate any chance of there ever being a problem, but for most having 2 standards of bays and lack of switching jacks a deal breaker. Please don't tell me this now that I've bought $500 worth of cables for this thing... The cabling isn't a waist, If you were to go the TT route it would be easily enough to have a tech remove one connector and solder it to a TT bay! If I had a Cheap bay I would buy a used one on ebay for extra modules and switch out a module the second one showed signs of being the slightes bit finicky ! The real problem is ancient Ribbons, modern ones have transformers that block phantom. When I had some Demo Fostex RPs I had a tech install blocking Caps " just in case. I know guys who only use outboard Phantom Supplies because they are so anal ! I have only ever seen one B&O ribbon that was on its last legs and in need of a Rebuild that " might " have faild because of phantom ! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 8, 2014 16:59:54 GMT -6
Why would it break shielding unless there was a faulty jack or you are hot patching (assuming you're using TRS patch cables)? And with being zapped, I can't think of any situation where this would happen outside of equipment failure and again if you're hot patching. What extra connections are you making? You're either wiring up a front facing XLR panel (in your case) or stuffing an Elco connector. The benefit is flexibility and the fact that you don't have to have a front facing XLR input for every mic pre in your studio, which if you're in something larger than a home studio or overdub room would get very large, very quickly. Not to mention the process of getting getting your mic lines run to the front of your panel (if you're not in a home studio and have snakes run to multiple rooms). I can't think of one studio I have tracked in that hasn't had the mic pre inputs come up on a patchbay. Including OceanWay A which I would have to assume is setup correctly. Cool, go nutz! |
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