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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 4, 2023 16:21:02 GMT -6
To add - with companies like CAPI, Heiserman, AudioScape, Stam et al. you can get fantastic results without paying the premium prices. There are certainly classics (and new classics) like a lot of the new Chandler stuff, but there are options that will allow you to prioritize being able to hear what you’re doing.
My first suggestion would be investing in a Trinnov.
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Post by skav on Nov 5, 2023 13:09:20 GMT -6
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Post by williamwixley on Nov 6, 2023 12:19:11 GMT -6
Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread! Great feedback and tips, and a fun experience to engage on a forum like this instead of just reading along
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kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Nov 7, 2023 18:47:53 GMT -6
Hey hey...just throwing it out there, but do you like your conversion? A year or so ago, I found a good deal on a Burl Bomber ADC, and it's earned its keep. Sometimes I think it's solved a few of the problems that I might have bought outboard to attempt to overcome...specifically, the bass on Burl tracked stuff feels easier to manage and mix, and overall, it just sounds "analog" honest - I rarely notice the kind of artifacts (e.g., resonances, high freq distortion, etc.) that I'd gotten used to recording in studios with Rosetta 800/Lynx Aurora (earliest version).
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Post by williamwixley on Nov 8, 2023 4:18:06 GMT -6
Hey hey...just throwing it out there, but do you like your conversion? A year or so ago, I found a good deal on a Burl Bomber ADC, and it's earned its keep. Sometimes I think it's solved a few of the problems that I might have bought outboard to attempt to overcome...specifically, the bass on Burl tracked stuff feels easier to manage and mix, and overall, it just sounds "analog" honest - I rarely notice the kind of artifacts (e.g., resonances, high freq distortion, etc.) that I'd gotten used to recording in studios with Rosetta 800/Lynx Aurora (earliest version). THanks for the question. I just recently upgraded my setup with the new Metric halo lio-8 mk2. It's such an improvement. I've had a Orion32 before and then a Aurora 8 (previous version) which had been great also. I had worked with the MH in a friends studio and got to know it and also the possibility to use the MIO mixer as a high Def 80bit summer. THat made me really go for it. I have not jet heard the Burl ADC although I had heard about it.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2023 7:33:04 GMT -6
To add - with companies like CAPI, Heiserman, AudioScape, Stam et al. you can get fantastic results without paying the premium prices. There are certainly classics (and new classics) like a lot of the new Chandler stuff, but there are options that will allow you to prioritize being able to hear what you’re doing. My first suggestion would be investing in a Trinnov. More and more I am seeing the benefits from DSP based room / speaker correction, but it sort of becomes a chicken or the egg question, which comes first? The problem is this I have heard speakers in specific rooms that don’t benefit from it and I have heard systems where the character of the speaker was completely changed by DSP. So unfortunately for the bank account I would say you need to purchase together to both reap the benefits and see what you’re really getting into. Trinnov isn’t cheap but it probably is the best overall, the budget option of Dirac and Mini DSP digital I/ O boxes give you the advantage of picking your own conversion. Nobody wants to hear this especially Trinnov fans, but where these systems don’t just excel but will make your jaw drop is immersive audio. Yep you thought the speakers and power will was going to kill your budget.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 8, 2023 8:38:30 GMT -6
To add - with companies like CAPI, Heiserman, AudioScape, Stam et al. you can get fantastic results without paying the premium prices. There are certainly classics (and new classics) like a lot of the new Chandler stuff, but there are options that will allow you to prioritize being able to hear what you’re doing. My first suggestion would be investing in a Trinnov. More and more I am seeing the benefits from DSP based room / speaker correction, but it sort of becomes a chicken or the egg question, which comes first? The problem is this I have heard speakers in specific rooms that don’t benefit from it and I have heard systems where the character of the speaker was completely changed by DSP. So unfortunately for the bank account I would say you need to purchase together to both reap the benefits and see what you’re really getting into. Trinnov isn’t cheap but it probably is the best overall, the budget option of Dirac and Mini DSP digital I/ O boxes give you the advantage of picking your own conversion. Nobody wants to hear this especially Trinnov fans, but where these systems don’t just excel but will make your jaw drop is immersive audio. Yep you thought the speakers and power will was going to kill your budget. I’d much rather hear a correct frequency response as opposed to the character of the speakers.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2023 9:09:52 GMT -6
More and more I am seeing the benefits from DSP based room / speaker correction, but it sort of becomes a chicken or the egg question, which comes first? The problem is this I have heard speakers in specific rooms that don’t benefit from it and I have heard systems where the character of the speaker was completely changed by DSP. So unfortunately for the bank account I would say you need to purchase together to both reap the benefits and see what you’re really getting into. Trinnov isn’t cheap but it probably is the best overall, the budget option of Dirac and Mini DSP digital I/ O boxes give you the advantage of picking your own conversion. Nobody wants to hear this especially Trinnov fans, but where these systems don’t just excel but will make your jaw drop is immersive audio. Yep you thought the speakers and power will was going to kill your budget. I’d much rather hear a correct frequency response as opposed to the character of the speakers. This is where it gets complicated, speaker design is at its heart a series of serious compromises to overcome the limitations of very imperfect drivers. Sometimes a designer will use phase and frequency response choices to compensate for a driver’s distortion. That’s where these systems fail. While this isn’t as prevalent in Pro Monitors you see a lot of it in high dollar consumer speakers. The other thing is soundstage/ imaging has a lot to do with the phase response, on a few very large systems and a couple of small systems that offer stunning imaging a phase correction can just kill it. Where DSP can bring huge improvements it’s the Crossover, but for good reason these systems don’t let us play with crossover slopes or points. A couple of months ago I was talking to a designer known for his large scale mains who has used DSP for years and we were talking about how often you can do more room compensation by moving the x over point a little or change the type of filter. He also had a story about some studio where the new owner invested in room correction had it all dialed in for those sitting on the couch, but when you sat at the desk it just didn’t work.
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Post by dok on Nov 8, 2023 16:08:45 GMT -6
He also had a story about some studio where the new owner invested in room correction had it all dialed in for those sitting on the couch, but when you sat at the desk it just didn’t work. That's going to be the case in any room, though, right? Once you're dealing with room correction the only place it should be concerned with is the listening position at the desk. Can't have both (unless you set up a different profile for one spot on the couch and switch between them).
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Post by lee on Nov 8, 2023 18:10:34 GMT -6
He also had a story about some studio where the new owner invested in room correction had it all dialed in for those sitting on the couch, but when you sat at the desk it just didn’t work. I thought that was the beauty of the Trinnov. One preset for the sweet spot, and one preset for the client couch.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2023 19:07:31 GMT -6
He also had a story about some studio where the new owner invested in room correction had it all dialed in for those sitting on the couch, but when you sat at the desk it just didn’t work. I thought that was the beauty of the Trinnov. One preset for the sweet spot, and one preset for the client couch. In theory absolutely, in practice if you have the client trying to tell you something ain’t right from the coach you need to still be able to hear it at the desk, like I said it’s all a compromise 😁
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Post by lee on Nov 8, 2023 20:09:26 GMT -6
I thought that was the beauty of the Trinnov. One preset for the sweet spot, and one preset for the client couch. In theory absolutely, in practice if you have the client trying to tell you something ain’t right from the coach you need to still be able to hear it at the desk, like I said it’s all a compromise 😁 You're only gonna get perfection one spot at a time!
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2023 21:30:13 GMT -6
In theory absolutely, in practice if you have the client trying to tell you something ain’t right from the coach you need to still be able to hear it at the desk, like I said it’s all a compromise 😁 You're only gonna get perfection one spot at a time! Your right, and your also wrong 😁 Knowing these mains other than HF roll off the couch far field . Those of us in the world of live have been tweaking DSP for years. And it’s always a compromise switching between presets just sounds bad to customers going good / bad / good & running mains and near fields at once is a whole new shit show.
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