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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 25, 2023 4:54:36 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 25, 2023 5:01:06 GMT -6
While they do sound very close, thought the hardware sounded more open and more mid bass weight.
Can buy plug for $149, seems good value.
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Post by roundbadge on Oct 28, 2023 0:40:19 GMT -6
Agree.hardware is better. plug in is a bit less depth and a tad smeary by comparison. Ive been using the Sontec plug in on some things so not much desire to get this one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2023 1:02:48 GMT -6
The Relab MEA-2 plugin sounds different on sample rates that are multiples of 44.1 versus 48. 44.1 and 88.2 kHz have some crud while 48 kHz is clean. Maybe this is where the robots mentioned in the press release came in to screw things up. Nothing like the cramped and aliased Metric Halo Sontec. Some mastering eq that set of standard biquads is.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 28, 2023 13:35:34 GMT -6
The Relab MEA-2 plugin sounds different on sample rates that are multiples of 44.1 versus 48. 44.1 and 88.2 kHz have some crud while 48 kHz is clean. Maybe this is where the robots mentioned in the press release came in to screw things up. Nothing like the cramped and aliased Metric Halo Sontec. Some mastering eq that set of standard biquads is.
I think the MH Sontec sounds great.
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Post by nomatic on Oct 28, 2023 19:40:20 GMT -6
The MH sontec sounds great! I have had most of the nice Hardware mastering EQs and I could easily roll with the Plugin on masters.
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Post by nomatic on Oct 28, 2023 19:40:48 GMT -6
The MH sontec sounds great! I have had most of the nice Hardware mastering EQs and I could easily roll with the Plugin on masters.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 29, 2023 11:16:41 GMT -6
Which one is the one the Carson guy from NE did?
And I just don’t know if I even know how to judge eq’s. Either they sound good and accomplish the task or they don’t.
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Post by ab101 on Oct 29, 2023 11:42:01 GMT -6
How does Massenburg's MDWEQ6 compare?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2023 12:05:09 GMT -6
How does Massenburg's MDWEQ6 compare? You can match the shelves and there’s no distortion at sample rates that are increments of 44.1 kHz. The maselec shelves start lower or higher than the Massenburg are listed it and the bells are unique. The anti-alias filter is different at 48 kHz.
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Post by tasteliketape on Oct 29, 2023 12:21:18 GMT -6
Which one is the one the Carson guy from NE did? And I just don’t know if I even know how to judge eq’s. Either they sound good and accomplish the task or they don’t. Carson is behind the MH Sontec
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Post by ragan on Oct 29, 2023 13:02:52 GMT -6
The Relab MEA-2 plugin sounds different on sample rates that are multiples of 44.1 versus 48. 44.1 and 88.2 kHz have some crud while 48 kHz is clean. Maybe this is where the robots mentioned in the press release came in to screw things up. Nothing like the cramped and aliased Metric Halo Sontec. Some mastering eq that set of standard biquads is.
I think the MH Sontec sounds great. It’s too bad you didn’t put it in Plug-in Doctor first to see how it looks. Could have saved yourself the embarrassment of weighing in (in public no less) on an audio processing tool after merely having listened to how it processes audio. Smh
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Post by viciousbliss on Oct 30, 2023 4:18:20 GMT -6
What do you all think of the SPL PQ plugin? I can't tell it apart from the hardware in the video comparison that's out there and it stacks up really well against the Massive Passive from Access Analog. It was just about the only plugin eq I tried that really had that same sense of fullness and width. The UAD Massive and Magenta were not on par with the PA PQ at all. I've been using the PQ a lot and tried it in comparison to the MH Sontec and I think the PQ wins that one too. One thing I don't know is if the PQ plugin has the same effects on transients as the hardware when the input is pushed. The favorite eq of Paul in the above video is the Buzz Req 2.2. Other people I've talked to aren't so high on that and prefer the PQ or something else like the Knif stuff.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 30, 2023 5:34:36 GMT -6
A very good demo of spl as a mastering tool:
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 30, 2023 5:51:27 GMT -6
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 30, 2023 6:25:38 GMT -6
I’ve got all the Relab plug-ins so I’ll look forward to demoing this one.
Currently the only plugin EQ I own that feels and sounds like a high end solid state EQ and can match my Millennia EQ is the amazing DMG Equilibrium.
So I’ll have to compare the Relab EQ to the DMG.
I find it hard to image any DSP EQ can better Equilibrium when it’s using some cpu cycles on a long impulse length.
I call the DMG Equilibrium “analog” digital EQ. I’ve never bought another separate EQ plugin since I bought it ages ago.
Let’s see.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 30, 2023 7:30:23 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2023 12:17:18 GMT -6
I think the MH Sontec sounds great. It’s too bad you didn’t put it in Plug-in Doctor first to see how it looks. Could have saved yourself the embarrassment of weighing in (in public no less) on an audio processing tool after merely having listened to how it processes audio. Smh how it looks is how it sounds. There are digital artifacts, deliberate distortion, unwanted distortion, unwanted phasing and even optional deliberate phase shift to emulate a hardware loop back which is ridiculously because the digital processor cannot even emulate the analog one’s curves correctly. Just because the digital distortion and artifacts work on one track, does not mean that they will work on most or on any other. Poor attempt at a mastering tool especially when modern productions are all over the place and many mastering jobs are not popular music productions with overt saturation and fx. This is just distorted eq with more digital artifacts than what psp was putting out 20 years ago. That psp 4 pack had aliased distortion but the filters didn’t cramp. cramping is itself an aliasing artifact where the poles of the filter warp. pre-warped filters to mostly match analog frequency response have existed since 1990s (Oxford and Renaissance eqs) and oversampled eqs to mostly match analog frequency and phase response have existed since the original mdweq in early 2000s There is no reason for this or any of the make believe pack to exist other than to make money from unsuspecting, naive customers or to have more antiquated processing for metric halo’s onboard dsp. The ideal digital state variable filters were worked out and published by Simper and Zavalishin in their free papers too. There are zero reasons for any recent digital eq to use filter structures from older text books too. Yet we still see direct form eqs try to present themselves as mastering eqs with oversampling, pre-warping, and or some sort of linear phase warping to try to match an analog phase response claiming that it results in less ringing than the svf filters oversampled and then downsampled on output yet that still has the drawbacks of direct form filters but with a nicer top end. Dan
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Post by christopher on Oct 30, 2023 12:25:00 GMT -6
Is there an app that verifies plugin Dr doesn’t artificially score higher for companies that, uh, are friendly to them?
Just cause I live near Silicon Valley.. lots of friendly folks if you know what I mean
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2023 12:45:01 GMT -6
Is there an app that verifies plugin Dr doesn’t artificially score higher for companies that, uh, are friendly to them? Just cause I live near Silicon Valley.. lots of friendly folks if you know what I mean Plugin Doctor is DDMF in Germany. Metric Halo's was known for digital artifacts since the days of Metric Halo Channel Strip hype train and the free SPAN and VST Analyzers. This is a cute toy. It should be priced like other cute toys which you can usually buy for 20-50 dollars a pop from Waves, Plugin Alliance, Fuse, PSP, etc. Many of those have less digital artifacts than this.
The Relab Maselec MEA-2 plugin does too but has weird behavior on multiples of 44.1 kHz versus 48 kHz and a slightly different tone on each. I checked by rendering out my 88.2 kHz session at 88.2 kHz. Converting the render to 96 kHz with voxengo r8brain pro, one of the cleanest sample rate converters around, and then checking the Relab MEA-2 shelves in 88.2 kHz versus 96 kHz sessions. The distortion from the MEA-2 at 44.1 and 88.2 kHz is far higher than the r8brain pro's distortion.
I emailed Relab about this the day the MEA-2 plugin came out about the distortion at 44.1 kHz versus the lack of it at 48 kHz the day the plugin came out and have received no response yet. You can use shelves from a number of other plugins without harmonic distortion at different sample rates and get very similar sound unless they are 32-bit float direct form biquad filters with rising low end distortion that increases with greater sample rates, e.g. the Metric Halo Channel Strip, the Apogee Symphony Channel Strip and Mod EQ 6, and the original filters of Waves Q10 that came out in the early 90s. Q10 is ridiculous for backwards compatibility because you can still select the single precision biquad filter structure for low end distortion and the un-ramped parameters to get zipper distortion and pops when you automate it! I guess someone complained at some point that their zipper noise and "warm" low end with notable dc offset was gone.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2023 12:59:09 GMT -6
I think the MH Sontec sounds great. It’s too bad you didn’t put it in Plug-in Doctor first to see how it looks. Could have saved yourself the embarrassment of weighing in (in public no less) on an audio processing tool after merely having listened to how it processes audio. Smh
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 30, 2023 13:45:13 GMT -6
Just when I thought, we had moved on !
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Post by phantom on Oct 30, 2023 14:50:12 GMT -6
Is there an app that verifies plugin Dr doesn’t artificially score higher for companies that, uh, are friendly to them? Just cause I live near Silicon Valley.. lots of friendly folks if you know what I mean Plugin Doctor is DDMF in Germany. Metric Halo's was known for digital artifacts since the days of Metric Halo Channel Strip hype train and the free SPAN and VST Analyzers. This is a cute toy. It should be priced like other cute toys which you can usually buy for 20-50 dollars a pop from Waves, Plugin Alliance, Fuse, PSP, etc. Many of those have less digital artifacts than this.
The Relab Maselec MEA-2 plugin does too but has weird behavior on multiples of 44.1 kHz versus 48 kHz and a slightly different tone on each. I checked by rendering out my 88.2 kHz session at 88.2 kHz. Converting the render to 96 kHz with voxengo r8brain pro, one of the cleanest sample rate converters around, and then checking the Relab MEA-2 shelves in 88.2 kHz versus 96 kHz sessions. The distortion from the MEA-2 at 44.1 and 88.2 kHz is far higher than the r8brain pro's distortion.
I emailed Relab about this the day the MEA-2 plugin came out about the distortion at 44.1 kHz versus the lack of it at 48 kHz the day the plugin came out and have received no response yet. You can use shelves from a number of other plugins without harmonic distortion at different sample rates and get very similar sound unless they are 32-bit float direct form biquad filters with rising low end distortion that increases with greater sample rates, e.g. the Metric Halo Channel Strip, the Apogee Symphony Channel Strip and Mod EQ 6, and the original filters of Waves Q10 that came out in the early 90s. Q10 is ridiculous for backwards compatibility because you can still select the single precision biquad filter structure for low end distortion and the un-ramped parameters to get zipper distortion and pops when you automate it! I guess someone complained at some point that their zipper noise and "warm" low end with notable dc offset was gone.
So, what you say, Dan. Is MDW6EQ still the best clean EQ out there? I'm going to buy one of them next month probably. Leaning towards the Massenburg one, base on my trials.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2023 15:26:11 GMT -6
Plugin Doctor is DDMF in Germany. Metric Halo's was known for digital artifacts since the days of Metric Halo Channel Strip hype train and the free SPAN and VST Analyzers. This is a cute toy. It should be priced like other cute toys which you can usually buy for 20-50 dollars a pop from Waves, Plugin Alliance, Fuse, PSP, etc. Many of those have less digital artifacts than this.
The Relab Maselec MEA-2 plugin does too but has weird behavior on multiples of 44.1 kHz versus 48 kHz and a slightly different tone on each. I checked by rendering out my 88.2 kHz session at 88.2 kHz. Converting the render to 96 kHz with voxengo r8brain pro, one of the cleanest sample rate converters around, and then checking the Relab MEA-2 shelves in 88.2 kHz versus 96 kHz sessions. The distortion from the MEA-2 at 44.1 and 88.2 kHz is far higher than the r8brain pro's distortion.
I emailed Relab about this the day the MEA-2 plugin came out about the distortion at 44.1 kHz versus the lack of it at 48 kHz the day the plugin came out and have received no response yet. You can use shelves from a number of other plugins without harmonic distortion at different sample rates and get very similar sound unless they are 32-bit float direct form biquad filters with rising low end distortion that increases with greater sample rates, e.g. the Metric Halo Channel Strip, the Apogee Symphony Channel Strip and Mod EQ 6, and the original filters of Waves Q10 that came out in the early 90s. Q10 is ridiculous for backwards compatibility because you can still select the single precision biquad filter structure for low end distortion and the un-ramped parameters to get zipper distortion and pops when you automate it! I guess someone complained at some point that their zipper noise and "warm" low end with notable dc offset was gone.
So, what you say, Dan. Is MDW6EQ still the best clean EQ out there? I'm going to buy one of them next month probably. Leaning towards the Massenburg one, base on my trials. Depends what you want. It's good for sharp surgical bells without changing the tone. For very broad boosts and cuts, I'd rather use something else designed for those or with more interesting gain:q dependencies.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 31, 2023 11:56:47 GMT -6
It’s too bad you didn’t put it in Plug-in Doctor first to see how it looks. Could have saved yourself the embarrassment of weighing in (in public no less) on an audio processing tool after merely having listened to how it processes audio. Smh how it looks is how it sounds. There are digital artifacts, deliberate distortion, unwanted distortion, unwanted phasing and even optional deliberate phase shift to emulate a hardware loop back which is ridiculously because the digital processor cannot even emulate the analog one’s curves correctly. Just because the digital distortion and artifacts work on one track, does not mean that they will work on most or on any other. Poor attempt at a mastering tool especially when modern productions are all over the place and many mastering jobs are not popular music productions with overt saturation and fx. This is just distorted eq with more digital artifacts than what psp was putting out 20 years ago. That psp 4 pack had aliased distortion but the filters didn’t cramp. cramping is itself an aliasing artifact where the poles of the filter warp. pre-warped filters to mostly match analog frequency response have existed since 1990s (Oxford and Renaissance eqs) and oversampled eqs to mostly match analog frequency and phase response have existed since the original mdweq in early 2000s There is no reason for this or any of the make believe pack to exist other than to make money from unsuspecting, naive customers or to have more antiquated processing for metric halo’s onboard dsp. The ideal digital state variable filters were worked out and published by Simper and Zavalishin in their free papers too. There are zero reasons for any recent digital eq to use filter structures from older text books too. Yet we still see direct form eqs try to present themselves as mastering eqs with oversampling, pre-warping, and or some sort of linear phase warping to try to match an analog phase response claiming that it results in less ringing than the svf filters oversampled and then downsampled on output yet that still has the drawbacks of direct form filters but with a nicer top end. Dan Dan, I appreciate that you have strong opinions. That's fine. I do not appreciate, however, having myself or other members of this community being called "unsuspecting, naive customer(s)." The fact is that not everyone agrees with you. There are members here who really like their monitors that have plate amps in them. And there are members here who have great ears who do not like Molot GE or Kotelnikov. That's just the way it goes, man. One of the primary things that has made this online community so different from other online communities over the past ten years has been this community's general ability to disagree without name calling or being disagreeable. There has historically been a certain level of goodwill and assuming the best of each other. Not perfectly, of course, but we try. I hope that can continue, but it does require us to think twice or even thrice before hitting the button labeled "Create Post".
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