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Post by wiz on Aug 23, 2023 18:13:38 GMT -6
I thought I would give this its own thread rather than bury it in another.....
I got a Sphere L22 and have 30 days to return it... I got it at a good price... well good for Oz bucks...
It comes with I think 30 mics when you register it with UA... who have taken over from Townsend Labs. UA have released their own sphere mics, the DLX and the LX. DLX being the model similar to my L22. The differences (they say) are parts in the non audio section of the mic meeting environmental standards that the L22 wouldn't meet, stopping import to some countries...the L22 also has a 10 and 20 dB low cut filter where the UA versions only have 10db Low Cut...
I am also demo-ing the two add on mic packages that UA offer, the Ocean Way and Bill Putnam collections.
Firstly let me say, I have no idea how well some of these mics match up the originals, or, the actual mics they modelled. I own some of the microphones they model... and the ones I do own (U87i, SM57) do a good job of sounding like the actual mics I own....this Is not that important to me... rather how good does the L22 and software sound and how well does its workflow help me.
I have been testing the L22 for 3 days.
Now the L22 needs two preamps. It has two capsules ... front and back.. and uses the software to manipulate after recording the polar pattens, proximity effect, and microphone model its emulating.
The only two preamps I have that are matched... are the Apollo preamps in my x8. I used them.
I am impressed.
I really think the microphone sounds great...even without the modelling. With the modelling and the ability to change so much about the sound you capture at the time of tracking, during mix down.. its quite remarkable.
You can turn the mic 90 degrees to the normal way you would point it, and capture stereo... with the one microphone... I guess its akin to XY it the sound it captures... rather than spaced pair...You can even if you have a MS matrix plugin, do MS with the one microphone.
It captures everything on a stereo track...this is the only hinderance, if you are using it to be a mono source...say vocals and you wish to tune the vocals... you have to bounce down to mono, then do your vocal tuning, which means at that point you can't manipulate the microphone type etc ...
If you get into the software and start using the proximity effect and hi passing etc you can really dial in a nice sound for your vocal that requires far less EQ than it might have otherwise using a dedicated mic early on in the songs development. This is a critical point for me in the L22 and what it offers...as I build up track by track being the guy who plays and sings everything on my tunes.
The mic really does sound great. The 3 packages of modelling software available sound great... the mics duplicated within the 3 packages, sound different to each other... eg the 3 47s all sound different.
The packaging is pretty good... the cable feels the least impressive thing about the system...although the UA DLX comes with a 20 foot cable, the L22 is 7ft....its cable is something I might upgrade.
This package of the L22 and the varying software you can add on, sounds really good. The workflow really suits me. Now I have an Apollo and use LUNA, and the complete UA type system is really brilliant for me. Its a complete sonic ecosystem in a way.
I think the L22 will stay.
It may... I say may.... end up meaning I can sell many many thousands of dollars of equipment down the road a bit...and free up that money for other things. ( We probably have to spend some money on the house )
Now, also I am nearly 59 years old. I have been doing this since the early 80s. I mention this as I think its actually critical to my perception of the mic, Luna, Apollo etc.
I used to make a decent amount of money, selling my original music, recording others... man the early 90s till 2004 was a boom time for me....but I no longer record others ( I have no interest in dealing with all that comes from that vs the financial return...anymore)
I have been through the own a console and tons of outboard gear phase ... which really was a lot of fun at the time, being an ex tech I also enjoyed modding and working on the console and repairing the gear, building DIY stuff etc.. it was a blast.
But at this stage I just want to work on my original songs... and make them the best I can from a song creators point of view rather than chase the dragon of the latest gear.
So keep that in mind with my positive view of the L22 and the system.
Anyways
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 23, 2023 18:21:33 GMT -6
Glad you are having a positive experience!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2023 18:23:06 GMT -6
Clips or it never happened, I've heard your 2A example doing HOTRS and it was great. Let's hear it..
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Post by jampa on Aug 23, 2023 19:20:55 GMT -6
Thanks for the review
Also the thread title sounds like a sci-fi book
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Aug 24, 2023 11:04:10 GMT -6
LOL.... Yes the title does have a ring to it. I too own the L22. I think it's a great mic and there is a lot you can do with the software. I still feel there is more depth (on my voice anyway) when I am using some of my tube mic Bu67, my V251 builds and some others. There is a lot of variety in the software. I really like the TK87. The black one. The 251s model in the Ocean waves pack sound great. You are correct with the 47 models. They all sound different. I own all the packs.
The ability to blend 2 different mics for a hybrid sound is awesome. I have even used the software with MY oc818 with great results.
Yeah the stock cable with the L22 is a bit short but I just add a few short mogami cables to both extensions of the Y and that solves my problem there.
Does the L22 solve my GAS. Nope. As a guitarist for over 40 years I have always and to this day looking for better tone. The quest for the perfect tone. I saw an interview with EVH. Apparently he had the same problem. I assume everyone is always searching for that little extra.
Well that has now transfered to mics for me. Always looking for that little edge or extra vibe or tone.
The L22 is a great mic for sure and if your disciplined enough could be the only mic most home studio owners could ever need.
It does fall short for me on that tube vibe I get with my Tube mics. I have used it on some vocal tracks for demo's etc. After listening back later on I forgot which mic I had recorded the vocal with and was impressed with the take. Then to see it was the L22 I am glad I own it.
I will probably never sell it. The slate mic is another story. I think the L22 slays it.
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Post by wiz on Aug 24, 2023 18:43:00 GMT -6
Okay here is a test for you to download and listen to. It contains a music track and 14 microphones compared. A vintage Neumann 87i I own. A Beesneez BU67 I own. The Sphere L22 using 12 of its microphones that come with the standard bundle you get (none from the expansions Ocean Way and Bill Putnam Microphones.) I used the 4 preamps on my Apollo X8 (the sphere uses 2) All gains were set exactly the same on the Apollo. There is a photo in the zip file showing how the mics were placed. I sang about 1 ft away. All mics are in Figure 8 (that's what I use when tracking my vocals.) The levels of the 3 microphone files are set for peak level on a the first line of the song after recording. This was the best way of setting up for this in my mind... you don't like it... do your own LOL. I left all settings in the Sphere plug in at default (except changing the pickup pattern to Fig 8 to match my U87i and BU67) I have named all the mics so you know which is which when listening. Remember the idea of the sphere is you can change lots of things after tracking, pickup pattern, proximity effect, hi pass, microphone type etc etc. No compression or EQ or post processing is done.. no buss compression etc. For me the biggest plus is not so much if it matches the mics emulated... but the flexibility. Also remember it can do stereo with one mic as well.... Anyways .... enjoy. Cheers Wiz Wiz L22 Comparison |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 24, 2023 19:03:58 GMT -6
Thanks Wiz. I'm pretty busy at work.
But plan to listen, at least over the weekend.
Chris
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Aug 25, 2023 7:51:35 GMT -6
Same here. I will check this out latter today or this weekend. From a quick listen over dropbox the individual files sound just as good as the BU67 or 87. Need to compare in my DAW.
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Aug 25, 2023 17:14:50 GMT -6
I just listened in my DAW. I have to say only a few mics stood out as sounding completely different. The 251. the 67NOS and I think one more. The rest of the mics were very close to one another. I mean the differences were very subtle. The BU67 sounded very close to the U87 and both of those mics didn't sound any better or that much different than the rest of the models. Like I said very subtle differences. I plan to listen more. I kind of spent about 10 minutes listening. The L22 certainly holds it's own with the BU67 and the U87.
I don't have 4 Apollo preamps. I own the x6 and I have sets of 2 pre of each pre I own. A Pacifica, 2 ISA 1's, a WA273. So I can only compare by recording the L22 first and then each mic after. The way you were able to do it with one vocal pass really shows there is not a huge difference in the real mics vs the L22. Even the Bu67 and U87 sounded very close to one another.
Can't seem to go wrong if you only had use for 1 mic. The L22 would be the way to go. I am constantly seeing the Sphere version of the L22 used at like GC.
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Post by wiz on Aug 25, 2023 17:56:08 GMT -6
doing stereo recording with the one L22 this morning... its a no brainer to place in position.. rotate it 90 degrees so the capsules face left right...no phase issues as the capsules are so close together...
The sphere with no modelling sounds really good... and when you switch in the modelling there the differences in the different mic models become quite apparent.
I am seeing consistent settings for proximity and filtering coming up using in my room....I am using the hi pass and the proximity to great effect... ending up with a very nice no EQ'd sound.
This thing is a no brainer for mic ing acoustic guitars..
I am doing these tests with just the flat Apollo preamps, not using UNISON preamps atm.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by guitarheadhunt on Aug 26, 2023 13:09:39 GMT -6
It's a good mic for stereo mic technique for sure. I can do the same with my oc818. I always felt it was best to use the flattest and cleanest mic pre with the L22 so the models work as intended. I have seen many in the UAD camp talk about putting the unison preamps in the chain and other processing. Sure you can do that as well as run it through any pre but you don't get the response the creator of the mic and software originally intended. I know there are no rules. If it sounds good it sounds good. I wish UAD would come up with a slot where you can put the mic modeling software first before the unison. That would be awesome.
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Post by antipodesjosh on Aug 26, 2023 16:02:55 GMT -6
I had a listen to the samples last night. They sound excellent! I was really surprised, I’ve always thought mic modelling was a bit of a gimmick.
I do all my guitar and bass recording through a Helix because the workflow is amazing, I can see how the Sphere would yield similar benefits for other sources.
The new DLX is 3500NZD from the dealer though 💸😱
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2023 17:08:54 GMT -6
Oh the power of someone you know, OK it’s not quite the samething but Peter after hearing your samples I almost bought a used Slate VMS ML-1 for $250 just to screw around with.
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Post by wiz on Aug 29, 2023 19:17:57 GMT -6
Here is a tune done with the Sphere L22. He Will Never Be As Good As Me - Sphere and Unison VersionThis was tracked using my Apollo 8X using its Unison Preamps and the Sphere L22 Microphone. Acoustic Guitar - 1084 Unison - Sphere Ocean Way K54 Vocal - 1084 Unison - Sphere 251 Resonator Slide - 1084 Unison - Sphere Ocean Way K3A Backing OOHs 2 done with Unison 610A and Sphere C12 Backing OOHS 2 done with Unison V76 and Sphere 251 Drums Ezdrummer 3 Bass Fender Jazz DI using Amplitube This is a very complete and simple system to use in conjunction with the Apollo and its Unison Preamps, Tape Emulations, and Summing (API summing used on this) I really can't speak highly enough of it. Suits my current workflow to a T. cheers Wiz |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 30, 2023 6:52:22 GMT -6
Glad you are satisfied Peter, if you are in uaapolloland, sphere makes a lot of sense, if not, juries out for me !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2023 7:23:50 GMT -6
I will take a look Wiz (sorry its been a busy urr year), I like the way you do things so if you like then maybe I might too.
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 30, 2023 8:20:09 GMT -6
Just loaded all these in PT. Very interesting comparison Wiz. I listened to all the samples the differences are subtle between some mics that I thought would be more different and huge on others.
I still think your good old 87 sounds really good here and I would probably pick that, it's warm but not overly so, it's clear but not too clean and it sounds much much better than their emulation particularly when you start compression the crap out of it.
I wonder how this works, are they just using eq curves or are they replicating polar patterns too?
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Post by wiz on Sept 7, 2023 17:09:33 GMT -6
Guitar Strings Pen Paper - Apollo and SphereHere is a tune, using the sphere and Unison Preamps. I am really happy how this turned out...and during the recording phase, I actually swapped around what mic I was applying as the tune evolved. That was really cool, as was tweaking things like high pass, polar pattern etc..during the recording process. So this is all Apollo x8 and Sphere L22.. and its only using the mic models that come with the sphere. The unison preamp I used was 1084.. As I said earlier in this thread, consider that this is using LUNA, so there are pretty big bonuses in workflow because of that. I think I am settled on this. Cheers Wiz
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 7, 2023 20:55:30 GMT -6
Here is a tune done with the Sphere L22. He Will Never Be As Good As Me - Sphere and Unison VersionThis was tracked using my Apollo 8X using its Unison Preamps and the Sphere L22 Microphone. Acoustic Guitar - 1084 Unison - Sphere Ocean Way K54 Vocal - 1084 Unison - Sphere 251 Resonator Slide - 1084 Unison - Sphere Ocean Way K3A Backing OOHs 2 done with Unison 610A and Sphere C12 Backing OOHS 2 done with Unison V76 and Sphere 251 Drums Ezdrummer 3 Bass Fender Jazz DI using Amplitube This is a very complete and simple system to use in conjunction with the Apollo and its Unison Preamps, Tape Emulations, and Summing (API summing used on this) I really can't speak highly enough of it. Suits my current workflow to a T. cheers Wiz OK, Peter here is what I am noticing: if I listen on most headphones or in the Tesla I really, really. Really like it. If I listen on the Questeds, Magnepans or TAD’s with the BEL or Van Alstine I notice the missing detail. It is seductive as hell until you put it under the audio equivalent to a Zeiss microscope. Maybe in a dense mix, but Peter honestly under those conditions It just hurts, and damn it I really want it to work. Now Heather keeps telling me if I didn’t know your voice, I probably wouldn’t care, but I do. |
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Post by wiz on Sept 7, 2023 22:38:16 GMT -6
Here is a tune done with the Sphere L22. He Will Never Be As Good As Me - Sphere and Unison VersionThis was tracked using my Apollo 8X using its Unison Preamps and the Sphere L22 Microphone. Acoustic Guitar - 1084 Unison - Sphere Ocean Way K54 Vocal - 1084 Unison - Sphere 251 Resonator Slide - 1084 Unison - Sphere Ocean Way K3A Backing OOHs 2 done with Unison 610A and Sphere C12 Backing OOHS 2 done with Unison V76 and Sphere 251 Drums Ezdrummer 3 Bass Fender Jazz DI using Amplitube This is a very complete and simple system to use in conjunction with the Apollo and its Unison Preamps, Tape Emulations, and Summing (API summing used on this) I really can't speak highly enough of it. Suits my current workflow to a T. cheers Wiz OK, Peter here is what I am noticing: if I listen on most headphones or in the Tesla I really, really. Really like it. If I listen on the Questeds, Magnepans or TAD’s with the BEL or Van Alstine I notice the missing detail. It is seductive as hell until you put it under the audio equivalent to a Zeiss microscope. Maybe in a dense mix, but Peter honestly under those conditions It just hurts, and damn it I really want it to work. Now Heather keeps telling me if I didn’t know your voice, I probably wouldn’t care, but I do. Thanks eric and I appreciate the frankness.... can you have a listen to Guitar Strings Pen Paper and let me know what you think of that one... cheers Wiz |
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Post by copperx on Sept 8, 2023 2:04:07 GMT -6
OK, Peter here is what I am noticing: if I listen on most headphones or in the Tesla I really, really. Really like it. If I listen on the Questeds, Magnepans or TAD’s with the BEL or Van Alstine I notice the missing detail. It is seductive as hell until you put it under the audio equivalent to a Zeiss microscope. Maybe in a dense mix, but Peter honestly under those conditions It just hurts, and damn it I really want it to work. Now Heather keeps telling me if I didn’t know your voice, I probably wouldn’t care, but I do. I agree. My first thought wasn't lack of detail, but low-mid mud. I only listened through NS-10s, but you can hear some transients poking out in all of the L22 tracks. The 251 model sounds nice. I feel like they did a fantastic job modeling the frequency response of the microphones (using two capsules is brilliant), but the transient response isn't there. Wiz, that 87 is killer on your voice. The one labeled just "U87". Is it the Ai or is it vintage? |
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Post by wiz on Sept 8, 2023 2:49:40 GMT -6
OK, Peter here is what I am noticing: if I listen on most headphones or in the Tesla I really, really. Really like it. If I listen on the Questeds, Magnepans or TAD’s with the BEL or Van Alstine I notice the missing detail. It is seductive as hell until you put it under the audio equivalent to a Zeiss microscope. Maybe in a dense mix, but Peter honestly under those conditions It just hurts, and damn it I really want it to work. Now Heather keeps telling me if I didn’t know your voice, I probably wouldn’t care, but I do. I agree. My first thought wasn't lack of detail, but low-mid mud. I only listened through NS-10s, but you can hear some transients poking out in all of the L22 tracks. The 251 model sounds nice. I feel like they did a fantastic job modeling the frequency response of the microphones (using two capsules is brilliant), but the transient response isn't there. Wiz, that 87 is killer on your voice. The one labeled just "U87". Is it the Ai or is it vintage? It’s vintage…. I was considering selling it….. hmmm maybe not 😁 |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 8, 2023 10:43:31 GMT -6
To many, this new setup might be great and the work flow excellent. But... the vocal sounds flat and two dimensional, with a little sharp edge at the midrange. It's almost like the dreaded Chinese capsule thing, but not quite that bad.
I really want it to be better, but every time I've heard Slate's and UAD's modeling mics, I felt the same way. It was much like a plug-in versus hardware. Keep the U87, or if you need some quick cash to spread around and create a new setup, try one of the Stam clones. My SA47 is seriously good. It has a vibe, and a lot of other mics I tried that were in the $1,500 - $2,500 range sounded good, but had no magic.
That would free up some real cash for you and you'd still have a Neumanesque high end sound.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 8, 2023 11:14:08 GMT -6
No no!. That vintage 87 is downright awful. I can help by offering $100 CASH US(!). Along with my MXL V69 (unmodded yet by Klaus though) Or I can sweeten the Pot by... Keeping the V69. (But my cash offer is still good)* The choice is yours.  Chris *I'll even pay for Shipping! |
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Post by wiz on Sept 8, 2023 14:58:14 GMT -6
To many, this new setup might be great and the work flow excellent. But... the vocal sounds flat and two dimensional, with a little sharp edge at the midrange. It's almost like the dreaded Chinese capsule thing, but not quite that bad. I really want it to be better, but every time I've heard Slate's and UAD's modeling mics, I felt the same way. It was much like a plug-in versus hardware. Keep the U87, or if you need some quick cash to spread around and create a new setup, try one of the Stam clones. My SA47 is seriously good. It has a vibe, and a lot of other mics I tried that were in the $1,500 - $2,500 range sounded good, but had no magic. That would free up some real cash for you and you'd still have a Neumanesque high end sound. Hey Martin which did you listen to…there are 2 songs in this thread and a zip download with a heap of unprocessed vocal tracks in it? cheers Wiz |
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