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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 5, 2023 16:03:15 GMT -6
$3k (down from $4k) at Sweetwater.
Man, if this was at this price when I bought my 5058 it would have been very tempting to upgrade. In fact, if I thought I could flip my 5058 I would definitely upgrade even now. This is a lot of value for $3k if you ask me.
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Post by drumsound on Jul 5, 2023 17:07:35 GMT -6
That is a really good deal. $125/month for 24 months also...
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Post by plinker on Jul 5, 2023 23:10:37 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Jul 5, 2023 23:17:16 GMT -6
Does it sound good?
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 5, 2023 23:23:41 GMT -6
that’s what I’m wondering, too. If it really sounds great, that’s quite a good price. And it looks like other retailers are selling at the same price - not just Sweetwater. |
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Post by plinker on Jul 5, 2023 23:28:32 GMT -6
Then that begs the question...if it really sounds great, why the 25% off deal across retailers ??
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Post by ragan on Jul 5, 2023 23:36:43 GMT -6
I'm always kind of rooting for analog summing. I want that to be a key part of the delta between the things I make and the things I hold up as exemplary. Partly because it makes some sense to me (the idea that handling stereo separation and some of the gain staging with analog circuitry could be a benefit) and partly because it's a way easier answer than 'it's your performance and your tracking skill and your room and your choices and blah blah blah'.
But on the very rare occasion that someone takes the time to do a careful comparison of some analog summing unit like this and an ITB sum, I've yet to feel conclusive about the results. I think I lean towards the analog sum in the couple/few decent comparisons I've heard, but I don't feel very confident in that assessment.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 5, 2023 23:45:18 GMT -6
I'm always kind of rooting for analog summing. I want that to be a key part of the delta between the things I make and the things I hold up as exemplary. Partly because it makes some sense to me (the idea that handling stereo separation and some of the gain staging with analog circuitry could be a benefit) and partly because it's a way easier answer than 'it's your performance and your tracking skill and your room and your choices and blah blah blah'. But on the very rare occasion that someone takes the time to do a careful comparison of some analog summing unit like this and an ITB sum, I've yet to feel conclusive about the results. I think I lean towards the analog sum in the couple/few decent comparisons I've heard, but I don't feel very confident in that assessment. I’m just on my phone atm, so my ability to research is a bit limited, but it appears to me the RND 5059 has a xformer on each channel. That’s certainly the kind of thing that has the potential to change sound for the better. I’m with you that many of the A/B tests I’ve heard were inconclusive to me, but a bunch of those were passive summing, certainly not xformers on every channel. If I were going to get a summing box, it would be something like this or the CAPI SumBus that would tempt me the most. |
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Post by plinker on Jul 5, 2023 23:57:51 GMT -6
It looks like There’s only 4 transformers in the unit. Probably one for each “silk” per output.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 6, 2023 0:09:50 GMT -6
It looks like There’s only 4 transformers in the unit. Probably one for each “silk” per output. Ah, thanks for the additional research, Jim. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 6, 2023 1:35:51 GMT -6
It’s a shame is doesn’t have a transformer on every channel.
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Post by srb on Jul 6, 2023 7:57:51 GMT -6
That would make it a 5088.  |
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Post by Quint on Jul 6, 2023 8:00:44 GMT -6
$3k (down from $4k) at Sweetwater. Man, if this was at this price when I bought my 5058 it would have been very tempting to upgrade. In fact, if I thought I could flip my 5058 I would definitely upgrade even now. This is a lot of value for $3k if you ask me. 5058? What is this model? |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 6, 2023 8:28:47 GMT -6
$3k (down from $4k) at Sweetwater. Man, if this was at this price when I bought my 5058 it would have been very tempting to upgrade. In fact, if I thought I could flip my 5058 I would definitely upgrade even now. This is a lot of value for $3k if you ask me. 5058? What is this model? That may be a typo for 5057 |
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Post by Quint on Jul 6, 2023 8:36:31 GMT -6
5058? What is this model? That may be a typo for 5057 Ah, that would make sense. I was kind of hoping it was a typo for 5088! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 6, 2023 9:43:20 GMT -6
Oops... yeah typo for 5057 Orbit.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 6, 2023 9:46:21 GMT -6
that’s what I’m wondering, too. If it really sounds great, that’s quite a good price. And it looks like other retailers are selling at the same price - not just Sweetwater. I think the Orbit sounds fantastic when lightly driven. I love it. And a really well respected engineer/producer I've worked with many times in town here in Austin swears by the 5059's he has. The difference between the two is that the Orbit has a -6db tap so it's easy to lightly drive it. But the Satellite has many, many other features like individual gains per channel and inserts. Not to mention 2x2 outs instead of just one 2 bus. |
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Post by Quint on Jul 6, 2023 10:14:13 GMT -6
Were I in the market for a not-passive summing mixer I'd be looking at the Nicerizer Jr. Hell, for the prices they go on the used market (~$1250 or less) these days, you could get two Nicerizer Jr. units (32 channels of summing), with money leftover, for the price you'd pay for just one 5059 at it's current sale price of $3000. I'm sure the 5059 sounds great, but $4k or even $3k is a lot for 16 channels of summing, when I can just repurpose my preamps at mixdown and basically get the same thing, in my opinion. That said, when I saw that the 5059 was on sale for $1000 off, I did go to the SW page, look at it and think for a minute.  I still "like" the idea of a summing mixer, and, like Ragan, I am kind of "rooting" for hardware summing to win, mostly for nostalgic reasons, as much as any. But I also like the idea of a fully hybrid, hardware inserts kind of setup too, and I feel like the hardware inserts would be more flexible than a summing mixer. Maybe I'll get around to getting a summing mixer like the 5059 or Nicerizer one of these days. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 6, 2023 13:21:49 GMT -6
Were I in the market for a not-passive summing mixer I'd be looking at the Nicerizer Jr. Hell, for the prices they go on the used market (~$1250 or less) these days, you could get two Nicerizer Jr. units (32 channels of summing), with money leftover, for the price you'd pay for just one 5059 at it's current sale price of $3000. I'm sure the 5059 sounds great, but $4k or even $3k is a lot for 16 channels of summing, when I can just repurpose my preamps at mixdown and basically get the same thing, in my opinion. That said, when I saw that the 5059 was on sale for $1000 off, I did go to the SW page, look at it and think for a minute. I still "like" the idea of a summing mixer, and, like Ragan, I am kind of "rooting" for hardware summing to win, mostly for nostalgic reasons, as much as any. But I also like the idea of a fully hybrid, hardware inserts kind of setup too, and I feel like the hardware inserts would be more flexible than a summing mixer. Maybe I'll get around to getting a summing mixer like the 5059 or Nicerizer one of these days. The Nicerizer would be more akin to the Orbit (RND 5057) that I have. The 5059, if used to its potential, should also serve as kind of a hub. All 16 inputs have Send/Receive with the Send always active and the receive switchable. Combine that with 2x2 bus out (each with variable level and Silk) and you've got a lot of interesting routing possibilities. Honestly Quint, if you were in the market the easy move would be for me to sell you my 5057 (mint in rack since day 1) and I would upgrade to the 5059. I'd have to think about the simplicity I'm giving up with the 5057 in return for the flexibility of the 5059... but you're not in the market anyway, so moot point! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 15:20:23 GMT -6
nice deal, it's a shame api stopped making their summing units and only have the way more expensive "box".
I really liked the 8200a with all it's features.
Apogee seem to have followed in this direction with cheap or really expensive products, cutting out the middle range. |
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Post by Quint on Jul 6, 2023 15:25:41 GMT -6
Were I in the market for a not-passive summing mixer I'd be looking at the Nicerizer Jr. Hell, for the prices they go on the used market (~$1250 or less) these days, you could get two Nicerizer Jr. units (32 channels of summing), with money leftover, for the price you'd pay for just one 5059 at it's current sale price of $3000. I'm sure the 5059 sounds great, but $4k or even $3k is a lot for 16 channels of summing, when I can just repurpose my preamps at mixdown and basically get the same thing, in my opinion. That said, when I saw that the 5059 was on sale for $1000 off, I did go to the SW page, look at it and think for a minute. I still "like" the idea of a summing mixer, and, like Ragan, I am kind of "rooting" for hardware summing to win, mostly for nostalgic reasons, as much as any. But I also like the idea of a fully hybrid, hardware inserts kind of setup too, and I feel like the hardware inserts would be more flexible than a summing mixer. Maybe I'll get around to getting a summing mixer like the 5059 or Nicerizer one of these days. The Nicerizer would be more akin to the Orbit (RND 5057) that I have. The 5059, if used to its potential, should also serve as kind of a hub. All 16 inputs have Send/Receive with the Send always active and the receive switchable. Combine that with 2x2 bus out (each with variable level and Silk) and you've got a lot of interesting routing possibilities. Honestly Quint, if you were in the market the easy move would be for me to sell you my 5057 (mint in rack since day 1) and I would upgrade to the 5059. I'd have to think about the simplicity I'm giving up with the 5057 in return for the flexibility of the 5059... but you're not in the market anyway, so moot point! Yeah, I get that they're somewhat different products. I was just saying that the Nicerizer is worth considering and is what I would be looking at if it were me. But, for example, I don't need or want the inserts on the 5059, as I have everything already on patchbays, so that's something I'd be paying for that I don't need. Conversely, the 5057 would be lacking in the input control and panning that the Nicerizer has. The Nicerizer actually kind of sits in the territory between the 5057 and 5059, which for me would be just about right, but I realize that my needs aren't necessarily the same as your needs. I mostly just mentioned the Nicerizer because I think it gets overlooked in a lot of these summing mixer discussions. I'm not sure why though. Once upon a time, they were a hot item, but people seemed to have moved on. Which is fine with me. I could pick one up on the used market for a steal if/when I ever decide to give a summing mixer a try. I've been flirting with the idea for years, but just can't ever seem to pull the trigger. |
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Post by plinker on Jul 6, 2023 17:57:08 GMT -6
The Nicerizer would be more akin to the Orbit (RND 5057) that I have. The 5059, if used to its potential, should also serve as kind of a hub. All 16 inputs have Send/Receive with the Send always active and the receive switchable. Combine that with 2x2 bus out (each with variable level and Silk) and you've got a lot of interesting routing possibilities. Honestly Quint, if you were in the market the easy move would be for me to sell you my 5057 (mint in rack since day 1) and I would upgrade to the 5059. I'd have to think about the simplicity I'm giving up with the 5057 in return for the flexibility of the 5059... but you're not in the market anyway, so moot point! Yeah, I get that they're somewhat different products. I was just saying that the Nicerizer is worth considering and is what I would be looking at if it were me. But, for example, I don't need or want the inserts on the 5059, as I have everything already on patchbays, so that's something I'd be paying for that I don't need. Conversely, the 5057 would be lacking in the input control and panning that the Nicerizer has. The Nicerizer actually kind of sits in the territory between the 5057 and 5059, which for me would be just about right, but I realize that my needs aren't necessarily the same as your needs. I mostly just mentioned the Nicerizer because I think it gets overlooked in a lot of these summing mixer discussions. I'm not sure why though. Once upon a time, they were a hot item, but people seemed to have moved on. Which is fine with me. I could pick one up on the used market for a steal if/when I ever decide to give a summing mixer a try. I've been flirting with the idea for years, but just can't ever seem to pull the trigger. Yeah -- the Nicerizer JR has some sweet components: Phoenix DOAs and panning on each input with 4 output transformers (one on each channel of the outputs) that are each driven by summing DOAs to bring in the saturation. There's a lot of stuffs inside that box! |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jul 6, 2023 18:03:09 GMT -6
ZenPro was blowing out NIcerizer Jrs for $1099 NEW in December.
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Post by Quint on Jul 6, 2023 18:11:21 GMT -6
ZenPro was blowing out NIcerizer Jrs for $1099 NEW in December. Yeah, I remember that. I really, really thought about it when that sale happened. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 6, 2023 18:32:50 GMT -6
I did a basic summing test when we put in the 5088 at the studio. Both my Daking summing unit and the 5088 sounded better than the ITB version.
Now, I’ve got a Fat Bustard. This week I was working on a mix ITB. Was having trouble with the bass and decided, let’s try spitting it into the Bustard. Had a bunch of ITB routing going on and stuff and didn’t want to screw up what I had. Ran an all music group into 1-2 on the bustard, all vox into 3-4, bass into a 560 and stam adg. Then the bustard our through my RJR buss compressor. Mix was instantly better than the ITB version I had been working on. I’d definitely prefer to be ITB for a number of reasons, but the hardware definitely got me there and put the smile on my face this time.
Anyway, if the 5059 sounds half as good as the 5088, it’s gotta be killer.
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