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Post by woofhead on Jun 2, 2023 22:07:24 GMT -6
Has anyone used a u89 in Omni?
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 3, 2023 21:54:00 GMT -6
Update: the session went well today. The band was super happy. For the upright bass I ended up doing:
1) DI into a Hamptone DI -> Grace preamp
2) Wunder CM7 -> Grace preamp
3) Soyuz 013 SDC -> Grace preamp
The CM7 was about halfway between the tail piece and the bassist plucking hand. It picked up some great low end but didn’t sound too boomy. The Soyuz 013 was higher up, pointed at the fret board near the bassists fretting hand. It caught the “slap” and percussiveness of his playing. Turns out I needed both to get the right sound.
Oh and BTW, the Hamptone DI sounds great on bass.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 3, 2023 21:57:30 GMT -6
Update: the session went well today. The band was super happy. For the upright bass I ended up doing: 1) DI into a Hamptone DI -> Grace preamp 2) Wunder CM7 -> Grace preamp 3) Soyuz 013 SDC -> Grace preamp The CM7 was about halfway between the tail piece and the bassist plucking hand. It picked up some great low end but didn’t sound too boomy. The Soyuz 013 was higher up, pointed at the fret board near the bassists fretting hand. It caught the “slap” and percussiveness of his playing. Turns out I needed both to get the right sound. Oh and BTW, the Hamptone DI sounds great on bass. Glad it went well! For the Soyuz, did you have the cardioid capsule on, or the omni? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 3, 2023 22:13:05 GMT -6
Update: the session went well today. The band was super happy. For the upright bass I ended up doing: 1) DI into a Hamptone DI -> Grace preamp 2) Wunder CM7 -> Grace preamp 3) Soyuz 013 SDC -> Grace preamp The CM7 was about halfway between the tail piece and the bassist plucking hand. It picked up some great low end but didn’t sound too boomy. The Soyuz 013 was higher up, pointed at the fret board near the bassists fretting hand. It caught the “slap” and percussiveness of his playing. Turns out I needed both to get the right sound. Oh and BTW, the Hamptone DI sounds great on bass. Glad it went well! For the Soyuz, did you have the cardioid capsule on, or the omni? Cardiod, I think the Omni would have sounded better but they were all in the same room and I was concerned about bleed. Side note, when ones soundchecking the mics before the band get there I tried it out on acoustic guitar…holy shit it was nice. I normally hate SDC’s, but this may have changed my mind |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 4, 2023 11:09:02 GMT -6
Glad it went well! For the Soyuz, did you have the cardioid capsule on, or the omni? Cardiod, I think the Omni would have sounded better but they were all in the same room and I was concerned about bleed. Side note, when ones soundchecking the mics before the band get there I tried it out on acoustic guitar…holy shit it was nice. I normally hate SDC’s, but this may have changed my mind I have a pair of the Soyuz 013FETs - and you're right: they're really nice. (On a lot of things, actually...) |
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Post by honkeur on Jun 4, 2023 11:53:33 GMT -6
Some of those Impulse records from the 60s used the 84 on the bass not sure which but I have heard love supreme Coltrane Ugh I hate to be "that guy"...but Coltrane's Love Supreme was recorded in 1964, and the KM84 wasn't released until 1966 |
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Post by peterhess on Jun 4, 2023 16:29:51 GMT -6
Don’t forget to ask the player! Most (good ones) know where their sweet spot is. Every bass records differently.
I’m a saxophonist, and you’d be shocked where some pretty qualified engineers have tried to place mics on my horns. And not just the dipstick who insisted his RE20 was side-address.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 4, 2023 17:20:59 GMT -6
Glad it went well! For the Soyuz, did you have the cardioid capsule on, or the omni? Cardiod, I think the Omni would have sounded better but they were all in the same room and I was concerned about bleed. Side note, when ones soundchecking the mics before the band get there I tried it out on acoustic guitar…holy shit it was nice. I normally hate SDC’s, but this may have changed my mind Understand the concern, but if you take a real close look at the polar plot at lower frequencies you’re probably going to find the cardiod is going pretty much Omni. It’s a hard lesson to learn to not think of a mics general polar pattern vs the actual polar pattern at freq. glad it worked out, the other hard lesson is the quality of the DI signal has more to do with the pickup that you have no control of. For every great bass player with a great pickup installed ther is one with a crappy pickup ( live the DI is always the first choice so you end up dealing with it ). |
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Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2023 17:21:09 GMT -6
... not just the dipstick who insisted his RE20 was side-address. Really? wow |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 4, 2023 17:27:54 GMT -6
I’ve really come across two different bass tones: the bluegrass “thump” (Barry Bales, Dennis Crouch, Mike Bub) which is usually heavily dampened (pillow in the bridge to mute resonance/cut sustain) and/or gut strings. The other is what I call “lead bass” like Edgar Meyer, Paul Kowart, or Todd Phillips. More open, more throaty, usually steel string. The thump is comes from down on the F hole/around the bridge and the “detail” I find is above the F hole on the part of the bass near the high strings. Over the neck is usually just clacking/more noise than you’ll want, too close to the right hand fingers and it might have too much “pluck” or the sound of the strings being pulled…but that upper bout that’s exposed usually sounds great. So, that’s usually where I put the mics. Omni is great. I usually like to use a multi pattern because sometimes cardioid is better. Maybe try a pair of their U47 style microphones so you can easily A/B Omni and cardioid. But it really is all about the instrument and the player if it sounds good. Have the player move around the room and play and find a place where the instruments speaks and sounds even. Some instruments as mentioned have really loud “woof” tones and some have notes that are just totally dead. Absolutely but, even the blue grass “ thump” / percussion players always have a very defined pitch that many seam to lose in the big picture. You have to pay attention to the whole picture ( and what I have heard of your work you do). A lot is also a function of your monitoring system, The guy with a thumpy sub or say 3in woofers isn’t going to hear anything but “ thump”. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2023 17:31:18 GMT -6
Anyone using n RCA 77dx on stand-up?
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Post by sean on Jun 4, 2023 18:35:35 GMT -6
Anyone using n RCA 77dx on stand-up? I’ve used mine a lot for bass, probably my preferred ribbon of all the ones I own (44, BK5B, Coles, Royer, Samar VL37) |
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Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2023 18:38:43 GMT -6
Anyone using n RCA 77dx on stand-up? I’ve used mine a lot for bass, probably my preferred ribbon of all the ones I own (44, BK5B, Coles, Royer, Samar VL37) Just bought one tonight, therefore it was a loaded question  |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 4, 2023 19:39:08 GMT -6
I’ve used mine a lot for bass, probably my preferred ribbon of all the ones I own (44, BK5B, Coles, Royer, Samar VL37) Just bought one tonight, therefore it was a loaded question It’s more fun to be a loaded questioner😎 |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 8, 2023 9:26:53 GMT -6
If you are going to reach for anything but an Omni on bass you really have to know your mics and their proximity effect, otherwise you either end up with a boom or an unexpected dip all of a sudden. I really like medium diaphragm condensers on upright. A lot of live guys and some studio guys seam to be happy to treat Bass more like a single note instrument rather than take the time to dial it in and get recognizable pitch. Man, I made this mistake on cello once. Used a Peluso 2247SE in cardioid. Holy booming midrange Batman! I had to do a lot of tricks to fix that one. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 8, 2023 9:50:34 GMT -6
If you are going to reach for anything but an Omni on bass you really have to know your mics and their proximity effect, otherwise you either end up with a boom or an unexpected dip all of a sudden. I really like medium diaphragm condensers on upright. A lot of live guys and some studio guys seam to be happy to treat Bass more like a single note instrument rather than take the time to dial it in and get recognizable pitch. Man, I made this mistake on cello once. Used a Peluso 2247SE in cardioid. Holy booming midrange Batman! I had to do a lot of tricks to fix that one. Vincent, this why the first lesson/ anytime spent with a mic. Play around with it! Learn the real actual 3D polar pattern not just the theoretical. Use an IPhone tone generator App to learn how it varies with frequency! |
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Post by plinker on Jun 8, 2023 12:29:08 GMT -6
Yesssss!!! The SDC omni will capture a nice frequency balance of that complex instrument...and it's more forgiving with placement than a cardioid. I've used an Avenson STO2, but the Line Audio OM1 will nail it for even lower $$. |
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Post by forgotteng on Jun 13, 2023 10:55:44 GMT -6
Everybody has said such good things here, but I'll just add one more thought that I don't recall anyone mentioning:
I think it's important to determine what role the attack of the upright plays in a given band, and to make sure and capture that. What I mean is that I've seen some bluegrass situations where the person playing upright is actually a key component of the "percussion" in the band - they're actually using their fingers to attack the instrument in such a way as to keep time for the band in lieu of any other obvious "percussion". In those instances, it may be necessary to put an extra mic up near the fingers just to capture that slap. Then you can use something like spiff to get rid of everything but the attack on that mic and blend it in to taste.
It's not the most usual situation, but I've seen/heard it before.
Great point |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 13, 2023 22:11:52 GMT -6
U47 by the body depending on the response and a large ribbon too. I’d then usually use something with a sweet mid range like an SDC or a Soyuz 017 tube for somewhere on the neck. Then if the instrument is solo I’d use a room mic like another ribbon or an m49 or both.
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