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Post by christophert on May 14, 2023 15:55:36 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the plug in.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 14, 2023 17:29:35 GMT -6
I'm wondering about and kind of waiting for modern country music to embrace Atmos in a "in the round" way where you are seated in the middle of the stage and you hear all the instruments around you performing and feel truly immersed in the experience. The problem on the consumer side is this : Soundbar or big investment in matching speakers and amps. You will notice 99% of Atmos systems are built around small near fields not “ full range Mains”. The one thing is though nobody buys a Soundbar for Atmos “ NS10”. This is the weakness you are relying on the software to give you an idea of what it sounds like on the lowest common type of playback. |
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Post by Ward on May 14, 2023 18:20:04 GMT -6
I'm curious if they're working on a way to use these cheap simulations to try and approach the consumer market from another angle.
"Just like being there on stage with the band"
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Post by Ward on May 14, 2023 18:20:48 GMT -6
I'm waiting for the plug in. I'm sure it's coming |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 14, 2023 19:52:25 GMT -6
I'm curious if they're working on a way to use these cheap simulations to try and approach the consumer market from another angle. "Just like being there on stage with the band" They will but here is the thing, simulations are very good at getting what a transducer or a dozen do right, it’s what they do right and the randomness of different response of those dozen transducers that they typically get very wrong. For a quick lesson try any of the mic emulators right next to the real deal, one of the first things I noticed and this goes all the way back to Roland and Anteras and up to Slate and Antelope was at their absolute best they were just plain boring! |
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Post by drbill on May 14, 2023 21:11:04 GMT -6
I'm still sleeping on it....... ZZZzzzzzzz........  |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 14, 2023 21:18:15 GMT -6
I'm still sleeping on it....... ZZZzzzzzzz........ Ha ! Bill i figured with everything you do for the Mouse you would be the one feeling the most corporate pressure to go full ATMOS! The fact that you’re not might be the biggest tell! |
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 14, 2023 21:56:27 GMT -6
I'm wondering about and kind of waiting for modern country music to embrace Atmos in a "in the round" way where you are seated in the middle of the stage and you hear all the instruments around you performing and feel truly immersed in the experience. Oh shite this is the thing nightmares are made of!!! |
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Post by collywobble on May 15, 2023 5:26:29 GMT -6
If you're not actually interested in the spatial experience, and are only interested in doing an ATMOS mix to facilitate getting on a playlist (as you mentioned for Apple), is it possible to somehow game the system and just put the same stereo mix on all of the other channels? That way you have an ATMOS "mix" for playlist placement No, I don't think so. There is some fairly strict gatekeeping at the point of delivery. For example they are pretty fierce about enforcing loudness standards and if you exceed the prescribed LUFS measurement your mix will be rejected. It would be fairly straightforward to buy a copy of Logic and do a compliant Atmos remix on headphones, but it might sound terrible on speakers. |
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Post by Ward on May 15, 2023 6:28:44 GMT -6
I'm wondering about and kind of waiting for modern country music to embrace Atmos in a "in the round" way where you are seated in the middle of the stage and you hear all the instruments around you performing and feel truly immersed in the experience. Oh shite this is the thing nightmares are made of!!! Lookit, don't tell me I don't know how to beat a dead horse! LOL |
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Post by sean on May 15, 2023 6:37:25 GMT -6
I'm wondering about and kind of waiting for modern country music to embrace Atmos in a "in the round" way where you are seated in the middle of the stage and you hear all the instruments around you performing and feel truly immersed in the experience. Many years ago, when VR headsets became affordable, there was a live Paul McCartney concert that you could watch and choose where you were on stage or in the audience...front row, standing next to Paul, standing next to the drums...but the audio was static. I think, sooner than later, you'll be able to "interact" with the music you are hearing and seeing when using a VR head set. If you are listening to a song and you turn your head to the left, the stuff panned to the left will come up in volume...to where you are listening in sort of a 3D space. I think this is all more interesting when there is a visual element and I see it being more "entertaining" with film or video games...but head tracking is the real "exciting" think about spatial. For me, in my Atmos experiences, there's are two way to approach it. One, is "overmixing" and panning shit like crazy and making stuff spin around and showing off what is possible. The other is thinking about it as expanded stereo...where you can get increased separation in the traditional left / right we've become used to, and use the height and rear speakers sparingly more to create expanded depth. I also think that approach, at least right now, folds down to headphones/binaual alot better. |
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Post by mcirish on May 15, 2023 7:54:08 GMT -6
I don't see the general public buying into Atmos. People listen to music off their phones where even stereo is sort of debatable. My thinking is that most Atmos mixes fold down into stereo poorly. Sure, some may love the "newness" of hearing their favorite song in some other mix but I think it's a novelty. Heck, I'm still working on doing an acceptable stereo mix.
Doesn't this feel like a money grab? Rerelease classic albums and get everyone to buy them again. It's just another sigh that the music industry, as it was, is gone. There are way more interesting indie artist than there are on labels. No one "needs" a label anymore, unless you are going for Pop infamy.
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Post by drbill on May 15, 2023 8:41:08 GMT -6
I'm still sleeping on it....... ZZZzzzzzzz........ Ha ! Bill i figured with everything you do for the Mouse you would be the one feeling the most corporate pressure to go full ATMOS! The fact that you’re not might be the biggest tell! Rarely work for the mouse anymore Eric. Last thing I did for them was the big Pirates of the Caribbean thing in Hong Kong. Mixed stems. Good enough. |
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Post by indiehouse on May 15, 2023 8:42:45 GMT -6
I don't see the general public buying into Atmos. People listen to music off their phones where even stereo is sort of debatable. My thinking is that most Atmos mixes fold down into stereo poorly. Sure, some may love the "newness" of hearing their favorite song in some other mix but I think it's a novelty. Heck, I'm still working on doing an acceptable stereo mix. Doesn't this feel like a money grab? Rerelease classic albums and get everyone to buy them again. It's just another sigh that the music industry, as it was, is gone. There are way more interesting indie artist than there are on labels. No one "needs" a label anymore, unless you are going for Pop infamy. That's my feeling. Kind of seen this all before with other novelty tech. And I don't want to listen as if I'm on stage. I don't want to turn my head and the drums get louder. I don't want to listen to music with a VR headset. I just don't get it. |
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Post by Hudsonic on May 15, 2023 9:39:00 GMT -6
I have heard some phenomenal ATMOS playbacks by Morten Lindberg at an AES show and also a fantastic 5 day long presentation of AMBEO and Immersive sound by one of my gurus, Gregor Zielinsky, at the Tonmeistertagung in 2016. At that time Gregor was head of AMBEO sound for Sennheiser. There he started with 9 loudspeakers to offer the full effect. He explained how one can also scale up with more speakers for more effective immersive coverage in the room. These playbacks were fantastic. I am not setting up any ATMOS or other mix facility. Why should I?? I can just go to one already set up by any number of post houses or independent engineers. Record company pay to engineers for ATMOS re-mixes is very low right now. Maybe $250 per track. Or lower.
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Post by christopher on May 15, 2023 9:40:29 GMT -6
The young kids need spatial for their video game lives. They hear another 8 year old over their left shoulder, they have to quickly turn, look up to a balcony and fire as many bullets at them as possible. That’s just how you grow up now. So they will be primed for spatial without knowing it..
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Post by christopher on May 15, 2023 9:55:09 GMT -6
I have heard some phenomenal ATMOS playbacks by Morten Lindberg at an AES show and also a fantastic 5 day long presentation of AMBEO and Immersive sound by one of my gurus, Gregor Zielinsky, at the Tonmeistertagung in 2016. At that time Gregor was head of AMBEO sound for Sennheiser. There he started with 9 loudspeakers to offer the full effect. He explained how one can also scale up with more speakers for more effective immersive coverage in the room. These playbacks were fantastic. I am not setting up any ATMOS or other mix facility. Why should I?? I can just go to one already set up by any number of post houses or independent engineers. Record company pay to engineers for ATMOS re-mixes is very low right now. Maybe $250 per track. Or lower.
I’ve been curious about the number of speakers. Is 9 speaker the 9.1 setup, no elevated speakers? www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/9.1-virtual-speakers-setup-guide/I saw another one where they add 2 or 4 ceiling speakers |
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80hz
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Post by 80hz on May 15, 2023 19:36:23 GMT -6
As a producer/musician AND also a lifelong music lover bordering on audiophile. I have yet to see any value in Atmos from an experience perspective. Granted I dont have a multi-speaker setup at my disposal but also the experience on Apple Airpods is absolutely terrible and less desirable to a solid stereo mix.
Just a couple years ago I feel like all the messaging was to saturate and add harmonics to the low end of everything in the mix because everyone just listens to music over their phone speaker. It's hard to fathom "wait no we were wrong, everyone actually is going out and buying up multi-speaker setups and $500 sound bars".
The whole thing reaks of beta-max to me...
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Post by indiehouse on May 16, 2023 4:57:45 GMT -6
As a producer/musician AND also a lifelong music lover bordering on audiophile. I have yet to see any value in Atmos from an experience perspective. Granted I dont have a multi-speaker setup at my disposal but also the experience on Apple Airpods is absolutely terrible and less desirable to a solid stereo mix. Just a couple years ago I feel like all the messaging was to saturate and add harmonics to the low end of everything in the mix because everyone just listens to music over their phone speaker. It's hard to fathom "wait no we were wrong, everyone actually is going out and buying up multi-speaker setups and $500 sound bars". The whole thing reaks of beta-max to me... 100% |
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Post by ml on May 16, 2023 6:20:32 GMT -6
I guess atmos is “cool” if you’re watching a live concert DVD in your home theater. But outside of that setting I don’t see a need or demand for it. Most consumers dgaf and would probably not even notice if the industry started mixing in mono again.
I can see this becoming a new feature for PA systems, if it hasn’t already. “The new Bose L1 tower with atmos” “spacial audio technology for your acoustic coffee shop performances!”
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Post by donr on May 16, 2023 10:49:40 GMT -6
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 16, 2023 12:08:24 GMT -6
Well first reaction, you always could mix surround on headphones just not well with consistent results, dose this change that?
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Post by matt@IAA on May 16, 2023 15:06:25 GMT -6
Last year I was in a room where a major label was doing exactly that to their existing catalogue of modern country music. I suppose it is coming.
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Post by bossanova on May 16, 2023 15:23:23 GMT -6
I was just about to share this as well. Waves’ Abbey Road Studio can do up to 7.1 surround, I believe, but it doesn’t claim Atmos specs as an option. |
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Post by svart on May 16, 2023 17:37:49 GMT -6
Why not zoidberg?
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