|
|
Post by teejay on Apr 23, 2023 18:41:51 GMT -6
Microtec-Gefell UM T 70 and M 930 say hello and please check us out. UM T 70 is the transformerless version, right ? Why that over the UM? I read that the TLM 102 and the M 930s are very similar. What do you think? I had the TLM 102. Bought it for my own vocals, and found it to just not work the way I hear other Neumanns do/should. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
|
Post by ericn on Apr 23, 2023 19:41:06 GMT -6
I have the UM myself. I said UM T bc i don’t think the UM is available any more. I could certainly be wrong as it’s next to impossible decipher Gefell product numbers  . That is correct. They only make the transformerLESS version currently. Don't know why. The transformer version sounds better IMO. The Transformer version was slightly noises on paper, and it was just confusing for everyone. Always wondered why someone didn’t figure out a mod with a quiet Transformer and circuitry. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 23, 2023 22:31:31 GMT -6
UM T 70 is the transformerless version, right ? Why that over the UM? Yes. The "T" stands for transformerLESS. So much like "tsunami" the "t" doesn't really matter. Chris |
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Apr 23, 2023 22:35:49 GMT -6
And if you are British Chris....? the T(ea and cakes) does matter.
Sorry folks I couldn't help falling into the cheeseparov pit.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Apr 24, 2023 1:28:36 GMT -6
Vintage U87 …. great, I’ll take one all day everyday, a great workhorse and sometimes for vocals superb.
Modern U87ai, for me no thank you.
I considerably prefer the BLUE Kiwi to an 87ai.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Apr 24, 2023 2:30:17 GMT -6
I like the AI* a lot through a quality Tube Pre or Plug. Like Vincent has posted before with a Demeter. Chris *Even Klaus has written highly of them. |
|
|
|
Post by theshea on Apr 24, 2023 5:09:56 GMT -6
sometimes i think i should sell ALL my mics and just buy a 67 and km84 and be done … i would have to stop recording drums though.
a lot of mics i bought only because i wanted to try them and i need more just for drum recordings … which do maybe 5 tracks a year.
|
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on Apr 24, 2023 5:29:06 GMT -6
Does it need to be a Neumann? How about the Beesneez BU67? That was getting a lot of praise a while back.
|
|
|
|
Post by mics on Apr 24, 2023 5:39:07 GMT -6
Does it need to be a Neumann? How about the Beesneez BU67? That was getting a lot of praise a while back. Awe shucks… thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by skav on Apr 24, 2023 7:03:47 GMT -6
Who has experience with the TLM 107?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2023 10:05:33 GMT -6
Microtec-Gefell UM T 70 and M 930 say hello and please check us out. UM T 70 is the transformerless version, right ? Why that over the UM? I read that the TLM 102 and the M 930s are very similar. What do you think? I have a pair of each. They are both great all-rounders and both clearly descended from the work of Goergs Neumann, but they are very different. The M930 wins easily. |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Apr 24, 2023 11:40:51 GMT -6
U87ai always sounds good to me and even sometimes great on the right voice. Definitely not a M147 if I had to choose one to stay away from. Also, as others have mentioned the U87 look is definitely impressive to clients, it is pretty much synonymous with what a studio microphone is supposed to be.
|
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Apr 24, 2023 12:21:08 GMT -6
Who has experience with the TLM 107? Good question. Never tried one or even saw one in person. But those that have used one seem to think it is good. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2023 13:17:01 GMT -6
Who has experience with the TLM 107? Yes. Hard pass. It has a very ummm.... "unique" sounding midrange. Too unique for any use in my world. |
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Apr 24, 2023 16:34:12 GMT -6
U87ai always sounds good to me and even sometimes great on the right voice. Definitely not a M147 if I had to choose one to stay away from. Also, as others have mentioned the U87 look is definitely impressive to clients, it is pretty much synonymous with what a studio microphone is supposed to be. Agreed. If you have to get a Neumann in that price range, it’s hard to go wrong with a U87ai. No, it’s not a vintage 87, but it still sounds like an 87, and it’s going to work on pretty much everything you throw at it. Even on the odd source where it doesn’t play well (my own voice, for example), it’s still at least usable. Can’t say the same for many other mics. If you’re willing to shop used, my personal preference would be a used M149. You can sometimes find them for $3k or so. It’s similar to the U87 in the sense that it just works on a ton of sources, but it has a much sweeter/smoother tone that I prefer. And I agree about the M147. I would avoid that one. I’d also steer clear of the TLM102, and I’d be cautious with the TLM49. Nothing wrong with any of them, but not exactly what I’d call workhorse mics. |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Apr 24, 2023 17:09:50 GMT -6
U87ai always sounds good to me and even sometimes great on the right voice. Definitely not a M147 if I had to choose one to stay away from. Also, as others have mentioned the U87 look is definitely impressive to clients, it is pretty much synonymous with what a studio microphone is supposed to be. Agreed. If you have to get a Neumann in that price range, it’s hard to go wrong with a U87ai. No, it’s not a vintage 87, but it still sounds like an 87, and it’s going to work on pretty much everything you throw at it. Even on the odd source where it doesn’t play well (my own voice, for example), it’s still at least usable. Can’t say the same for many other mics. If you’re willing to shop used, my personal preference would be a used M149. You can sometimes find them for $3k or so. It’s similar to the U87 in the sense that it just works on a ton of sources, but it has a much sweeter/smoother tone that I prefer. And I agree about the M147. I would avoid that one. I’d also steer clear of the TLM102, and I’d be cautious with the TLM49. Nothing wrong with any of them, but not exactly what I’d call workhorse mics. I agree about the M149, great mic! Very impressive looking as well. |
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Apr 24, 2023 18:03:47 GMT -6
Agreed. If you have to get a Neumann in that price range, it’s hard to go wrong with a U87ai. No, it’s not a vintage 87, but it still sounds like an 87, and it’s going to work on pretty much everything you throw at it. Even on the odd source where it doesn’t play well (my own voice, for example), it’s still at least usable. Can’t say the same for many other mics. If you’re willing to shop used, my personal preference would be a used M149. You can sometimes find them for $3k or so. It’s similar to the U87 in the sense that it just works on a ton of sources, but it has a much sweeter/smoother tone that I prefer. And I agree about the M147. I would avoid that one. I’d also steer clear of the TLM102, and I’d be cautious with the TLM49. Nothing wrong with any of them, but not exactly what I’d call workhorse mics. I agree about the M149, great mic! Very impressive looking as well. From what I have read, Al Schmitt liked the M149s on piano too, as close mics. Makes me want to check it out. (Though I am fairly stuck on my DPA 4015a pair.) |
|
|
|
Post by skav on Apr 25, 2023 11:39:53 GMT -6
UM T 70 is the transformerless version, right ? Why that over the UM? I read that the TLM 102 and the M 930s are very similar. What do you think? I have a pair of each. They are both great all-rounders and both clearly descended from the work of Goergs Neumann, but they are very different. The M930 wins easily. M930 looks nice. As a transformerless microphone, can one expect it to lack 'weight, impact, power' etc? Does it need to be paired with a transformer based preamp? |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 25, 2023 12:44:02 GMT -6
[SNIP Does it need to be paired with a transformer based preamp? Yes, definitely makes a nice 'weight' difference when needed. IMHO, that's all the time. |
|
|
|
Post by skav on Apr 25, 2023 14:02:31 GMT -6
[SNIP Does it need to be paired with a transformer based preamp? Yes, definitely makes a nice 'weight' difference when needed. IMHO, that's all the time. It's a mystery to me why so many of the top manufacturers abondoned transformers nearly alltogether. I understand noise and specs on paper, but it seems like in pop, blues & rock related music, most professionals or even demanding hobbyists prefer to have transformers somewhere in their recordingchain. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2023 15:42:08 GMT -6
Yes, definitely makes a nice 'weight' difference when needed. IMHO, that's all the time. It's a mystery to me why so many of the top manufacturers abondoned transformers nearly alltogether. I understand noise and specs on paper, but it seems like in music, most professionals or even demanding hobbyists prefer to have transformers somewhere in their recordingchain. I’ll disagree, in the classical live ensemble arena there is a whole “ no transformers” clique. |
|
|
|
Post by christophert on Apr 25, 2023 16:10:03 GMT -6
UM T 70 is the transformerless version, right ? Why that over the UM? I read that the TLM 102 and the M 930s are very similar. What do you think? I have a pair of each. They are both great all-rounders and both clearly descended from the work of Goergs Neumann, but they are very different. The M930 wins easily. Hey Ward, what are you using your M-930's on ? I have a pair (with transformers) but not had a lot of time with them. Tried them on upright piano the other day and was a little underwhelmed - replaced with Schoeps.
|
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on Apr 25, 2023 16:33:28 GMT -6
Vintage U87. So many great records from the 70s made with this mic. It was a go to for vocals on so many hit records, Jackson Browne, James Taylor etc, it's funny how overlooked it is for that today.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 25, 2023 16:36:58 GMT -6
I have a pair of each. They are both great all-rounders and both clearly descended from the work of Goergs Neumann, but they are very different. The M930 wins easily. Hey Ward, what are you using your M-930's on ? I have a pair (with transformers) but not had a lot of time with them. Tried them on upright piano the other day and was a little underwhelmed - replaced with Schoeps.
Favorite uses: Acoustic Grand piano Harp Overheads drums = anything outside the Rock/Country idiom Stereo front capture of strings Choir Capture They are not Scoopy in nature. But they take EQ well, so you can carve out the mids you find in too great an abundance and end up with exactly what you like. What do you cut? Acoustic Grand piano 500hz, medium sized 1 8va -2 to -5 db Harp 350-450 hz Overheads drums 350, always Stereo front capture of strings 200=250 and 2khz Choir Capture 700 -800 depending on voices. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
|
Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2023 16:53:43 GMT -6
Hey Ward, what are you using your M-930's on ? I have a pair (with transformers) but not had a lot of time with them. Tried them on upright piano the other day and was a little underwhelmed - replaced with Schoeps.
Favorite uses: Acoustic Grand piano Harp Overheads drums = anything outside the Rock/Country idiom Stereo front capture of strings Choir Capture They are not Scoopy in nature. But they take EQ well, so you can carve out the mids you find in too great an abundance and end up with exactly what you like. What do you cut? Acoustic Grand piano 500hz, medium sized 1 8va -2 to -5 db Harp 350-450 hz Overheads drums 350, always Stereo front capture of strings 200=250 and 2khz Choir Capture 700 -800 depending on voices. All Gefell’s take EQ like classic Neumann’s no KM184 or TLM 10x in the Gefell family. Gefells like Beyerdynamic ( why can’t they make a Sennheiser or Shure compatible M88 wireless head) or the lesser known MBHO Haun they just make musical mics, they have avoided price point crap. |
|
. 
