ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 5, 2023 13:33:29 GMT -6
I’m going to build and donate a 25ft Canare extension for Martin. You sir, are a peach of a human! My Rane HC6 has been running for 25 years. It was at the studio I worked at before I bought out the boss. They were designed by Jon Erickson who also designed some of the A-Designs gear, and was making racks for Sphere modules at one point. I would be an even bigger peach if a certain retailer would ship an fing Cable mount Locking Neutrik! |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on May 5, 2023 14:00:56 GMT -6
Like many, my headphone extension cables are made out of the exact same cable as my balanced mic lines.
Neutrik locking female socket - stereo Neutrik jack at the other end.
I’ve got ones that have been in service for 20 years.
My headphone amp is a 19” rack MTR unit - 6 outs - very high quality amps.
My main mastering headphone amp is in my Crane Song Avocet.
MTR do a stereo unit which is great too.
|
|
|
|
Post by srb on May 5, 2023 19:48:11 GMT -6
I’m going to build and donate a 25ft Canare extension for Martin. You sir, are a peach of a human! My Rane HC6 has been running for 25 years. It was at the studio I worked at before I bought out the boss. They were designed by Jon Erickson who also designed some of the A-Designs gear, and was making racks for Sphere modules at one point. John Erickson racked a quad of Electrodyne 710L's for me several years ago. Nice fellow that does good work. I use an Aviom system here, up to 5 musicians. But if it's more, I've kept the two amps I had previously (and which work with my in-wall wiring): an Oz Audio HR4 and a Presonus HP60 (which I bought in a private sale from my longtime Sweetwater rep). The Presonus can get loud and it's pretty versatile. I've used those Radio Shack extension cables, too. Still have a few that work, but most quit working properly. I made Mogami 2549 + Neutrik male/locking female TRS to replace them. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 5, 2023 20:27:29 GMT -6
Like many, my headphone extension cables are made out of the exact same cable as my balanced mic lines. Neutrik locking female socket - stereo Neutrik jack at the other end. I’ve got ones that have been in service for 20 years. My headphone amp is a 19” rack MTR unit - 6 outs - very high quality amps. My main mastering headphone amp is in my Crane Song Avocet. MTR do a stereo unit which is great too. Mic cable isn’t great for headphones, high capacitance can roll off LF. |
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on May 5, 2023 23:16:12 GMT -6
Yes, Radio Shack type extension headphone cables are IME shit from day one. I have I almost hate to say , the aforementioned Behringer which has been foolproof for at least 15 years and no act has complained about the sound. Sure they're not a boutique sound but they are more than good enough to do the job - it's headphone tracking not audiophile critiquing.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on May 6, 2023 7:58:01 GMT -6
Like many, my headphone extension cables are made out of the exact same cable as my balanced mic lines. Neutrik locking female socket - stereo Neutrik jack at the other end. I’ve got ones that have been in service for 20 years. My headphone amp is a 19” rack MTR unit - 6 outs - very high quality amps. My main mastering headphone amp is in my Crane Song Avocet. MTR do a stereo unit which is great too. Mic cable isn’t great for headphones, high capacitance can roll off LF. I respectfully disagree  Every headphone extension cable I’ve ever had professionally made up has been using tour grade Van Damme mic cable, over a 5 - 10m (probably more) distance the roll off is virtually undetectable using tracking headphones like Beyer DT250's (my personal preference) I've done ABX testing to prove it - though of course I respect you can detect the roll off you talk of. And for tracking headphones (imho) it's utterly irrelevant, in a studio environment I want durability. My headphones for mastering (second reference HD600's) are plugged in direct into my Crane Song Avocet and don’t use an extension. |
|
|
|
Post by christopher on May 6, 2023 10:15:03 GMT -6
I want to share this.
I was in a pinch, needed 2 x 50 feet of headphone cables for a session at a huge place, and thought to myself: well, electrical wire is pretty thick stuff and 3 pin. Can I use a cheap 50 foot walmart electric cable for the wire? Rather than research what the issues were, only took 10 minutes to strip and solder and test it myself. Well I laughed, signal did make it to the other end. But the stereo image was all lopsided. I thought maybe I screwed up soldering, but the second one turned out the same, even though it was different brand. I ended up using it, I think I did the thing where halfway plugged in fed both speakers the same leg and sent mono mixes out. Gaffed it and got through the gig no complaints. (It was live, they just needed vocal cues)
Now I'm wondering the science as to how the 2 channel blend was so unexpected. I should have checked each wire's resistance and capacitance I guess. Anyway, just wanted to let anyone out there know: don't do it, its not worth it
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 6, 2023 10:18:48 GMT -6
Mic cable isn’t great for headphones, high capacitance can roll off LF. I respectfully disagree Every headphone extension cable I’ve ever had professionally made up has been using tour grade Van Damme mic cable, over a 5 - 10m (probably more) distance the roll off is virtually undetectable using tracking headphones like Beyer DT250's (my personal preference) I've done ABX testing to prove it - though of course I respect you can detect the roll off you talk of. And for tracking headphones (imho) it's utterly irrelevant, in a studio environment I want durability. My headphones for mastering (second reference HD600's) are plugged in direct into my Crane Song Avocet and don’t use an extension. And I shall respectfully counter 😁 Yes I will admit to making many extensions out of mic cable, not because it’s good or durable but because it was there and offered enough conductors that would fit in a 1/4 connector. Every headphone manufacturer has suggested not using mic cable ( of course when you suggest they offer their own bulk headphone cable they bulk ( pun intended Chris). A Cable like Canare 4S6 is not as flexible as some top mic cables ( but as flexible as cheap mic cable) and yes years ago I and some others begged for a 3 conductor version for this use. ( a slightly smaller 3 conductor would have been perfect but beggars can’t be choosers and we figured we might get our wish simply removing one conductor). Of course seeing the rainbow of colors of Canare Mic cable I find clients want colors in speaker cable, I would just be happy with the mint Starquad in purple/ violet for racks and other line level runs ( nobody steals violet cables all the other colors even shit brown will grow legs but not purple/ violet). But this isn’t GS so we can disagree without burning the place down and selling a bunch of popcorn. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on May 6, 2023 11:28:29 GMT -6
I respectfully disagree Every headphone extension cable I’ve ever had professionally made up has been using tour grade Van Damme mic cable, over a 5 - 10m (probably more) distance the roll off is virtually undetectable using tracking headphones like Beyer DT250's (my personal preference) I've done ABX testing to prove it - though of course I respect you can detect the roll off you talk of. And for tracking headphones (imho) it's utterly irrelevant, in a studio environment I want durability. My headphones for mastering (second reference HD600's) are plugged in direct into my Crane Song Avocet and don’t use an extension. And I shall respectfully counter 😁 Yes I will admit to making many extensions out of mic cable, not because it’s good or durable but because it was there and offered enough conductors that would fit in a 1/4 connector. Every headphone manufacturer has suggested not using mic cable ( of course when you suggest they offer their own bulk headphone cable they bulk ( pun intended Chris). A Cable like Canare 4S6 is not as flexible as some top mic cables ( but as flexible as cheap mic cable) and yes years ago I and some others begged for a 3 conductor version for this use. ( a slightly smaller 3 conductor would have been perfect but beggars can’t be choosers and we figured we might get our wish simply removing one conductor). Of course seeing the rainbow of colors of Canare Mic cable I find clients want colors in speaker cable, I would just be happy with the mint Starquad in purple/ violet for racks and other line level runs ( nobody steals violet cables all the other colors even shit brown will grow legs but not purple/ violet). But this isn’t GS so we can disagree without burning the place down and selling a bunch of popcorn. No worries. If you can hear a difference, then sure I understand why you wouldn’t use mic cable - makes sense. I do understand what your saying, as headphones are essentially small speakers and so have similar cable requirements to speakers. In practice for tracking headphones, I’ve tried both types of cable and in use, I can’t detect a difference worth worring about over the distances I use mine at (5-10m) This is a road I’ve been down before |
|
|
|
Post by Omicron9 on May 8, 2023 9:30:18 GMT -6
This is just my experience shared respectfully; no toe-stepping here.... About a year ago, I made a new cable for my Sony 7506s. I used Mogami 2893 Mini-Quad mic cable. I think 12 feet in length. The new cable sounded a bit better than the stock cable. Highs seemed clearer and overall there was a tiny bit more detail. The improvement was very slight, but certainly noticeable. I didn't replace the cable for sonic improvement; I just hate the half-curly cable that's stock on the 7506. The straight Mogami cable removed the annoyance factor of getting the curly half of the cable constantly caught on things with the occasional bonus of having the 'phones yanked off my head as a result. The improved sonics were a nice surprise. At the same time, I also replaced the crumbling earpads with some very nice leather pads that were more comfy than the originals and also slightly improved the isolation. Again... that's just my experience. -09 |
|
|
|
Post by BenjaminAshlin on May 9, 2023 16:54:33 GMT -6
I'll keep that Behringer in mind if I ever start tracking more than one or two people at a time. Those little Behringer HA400's are a good cheap option. I keep one around as a headphone splitter when we have jam sessions. They wouldn't be my main headphone amp but work great for tracking. Pretty sure you can get them for like 20-30 bucks |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on May 12, 2023 7:07:33 GMT -6
Like many, my headphone extension cables are made out of the exact same cable as my balanced mic lines. Neutrik locking female socket - stereo Neutrik jack at the other end. I’ve got ones that have been in service for 20 years. My headphone amp is a 19” rack MTR unit - 6 outs - very high quality amps. My main mastering headphone amp is in my Crane Song Avocet. MTR do a stereo unit which is great too. Mic cable isn’t great for headphones, high capacitance can roll off LF. You know ericn, you had me thinking for a while where I has seen mic cable recommended for extensions and always had mine made up like that. And then I remembered the respected BBC audio engineer Hugh Robjohns. (not saying you're not respected of course!) Quote from SOS (a conversion on a forum) ------- Re: Cable for headphone extension lead
Post by Hugh Robjohns » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:24 am
Sam Spoons wrote:
Headphones signals are higher level than microphone signals so much less susceptible to external interference (also much lower impedances which, I suspect, also helps but I've never really thought about that aspect).
Actually, there's not much difference between a quiet headphone signal and a loud mic signal...
And the impedance thing is a red herring too -- not really relevant in this context.
edit :- am I wrong about this Hugh? I've always use unscreened 3 core for headphone extensions with no issues.
There's no real technical problem with it, as you say. Yes, you do lose the theoretical benefit of an overall screen that comes when using standard mic cable, and so would be potentially exposed to picking up some unwanted interference in extreme circumstances... Without an overall screen there's also the theoretical potential for the headphone extension cable to radiate interference into other nearby sensitive circuits/cables... again, in extreme circumstances.
Personally, I always use mic cable for headphone extensions because I have lots of that lying around, whereas all my three-core mains cable stocks are chunky 13A types which wouldn't be appropriate for practical reasons!
----
For a moment there you had me doubting myself :-) |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on May 12, 2023 7:56:17 GMT -6
Mic cable isn’t great for headphones, high capacitance can roll off LF. You know ericn, you had me thinking for a while where I has seen mic cable recommended for extensions and always had mine made up like that. And then I remembered the respected BBC audio engineer Hugh Robjohns. (not saying you're not respected of course!) Quote from SOS (a conversion on a forum) ------- Re: Cable for headphone extension lead
Post by Hugh Robjohns » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:24 am
Sam Spoons wrote:
Headphones signals are higher level than microphone signals so much less susceptible to external interference (also much lower impedances which, I suspect, also helps but I've never really thought about that aspect).
Actually, there's not much difference between a quiet headphone signal and a loud mic signal...
And the impedance thing is a red herring too -- not really relevant in this context.
edit :- am I wrong about this Hugh? I've always use unscreened 3 core for headphone extensions with no issues.
There's no real technical problem with it, as you say. Yes, you do lose the theoretical benefit of an overall screen that comes when using standard mic cable, and so would be potentially exposed to picking up some unwanted interference in extreme circumstances... Without an overall screen there's also the theoretical potential for the headphone extension cable to radiate interference into other nearby sensitive circuits/cables... again, in extreme circumstances.
Personally, I always use mic cable for headphone extensions because I have lots of that lying around, whereas all my three-core mains cable stocks are chunky 13A types which wouldn't be appropriate for practical reasons!
----
For a moment there you had me doubting myself :-) One thing to also remember most decent shields in mic cables is a different composition and length than the standard audio conductors, you might hear a slight smear. I was talking to an old tech yesterday and asked where this all started and his response “ where else could you find 3 conductors in a small package in the 80’s?”. Even in the 90’s trying to get a decent headphone wire was impossible. The other fun part was if someone used a Starquad there was no standard for wiring it! I actually remember walking into a shop seeing 2 techs working on an emergency extension for wired IEM’s they were each wiring an end differently! |
|
