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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 11, 2023 21:16:05 GMT -6
How many of you guys are recording vocals super close, i.e. 2 - 4” away?
I’ve always liked my Upton about 8 - 12” away — any closer and the lows get tubby, which makes the the compressor sound all splatty and weird.
But I’ve been experimenting with closer proximity lately, and discovered that if I do a pretty hefty low shelf cut, another cut in the lower mids, AND use a high pass,I can basically eat the mic and it does something to the high end that I REALLY love. It gets noticeably smoother. The upper mids become less brittle and more “dense,” if that makes sense.
But then I start going back and forth and there are things I like about being further away.
What’s been your experience?
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Post by svart on Feb 11, 2023 21:50:20 GMT -6
I used to do super close for that intimate sound, but there was always peakiness in the frequency spectrum that I couldn't get rid of that needed a lot of work in the mix.
Backing off the mic seemed to fix all the issues. It's a little duller sound, but takes so much less work to sound "right".
I'm usually hitting around 7-8" from the mic, the pop shield being about halfway.
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 11, 2023 22:08:32 GMT -6
I used to do super close for that intimate sound, but there was always peakiness in the frequency spectrum that I couldn't get rid of that needed a lot of work in the mix. Backing off the mic seemed to fix all the issues. It's a little duller sound, but takes so much less work to sound "right". I'm usually hitting around 7-8" from the mic, the pop shield being about halfway. It’s weird — I used to hate peakiness/harshness in vocals (and pretty much everything else, for that matter), but lately, I’ve actually been wanting my vocals to have more of a presence peak. Going super close and then EQing out all the low end pre-compressor seems to compress the upper mids in a really pleasing way. Almost U47ish kinda thing. Maybe I’m just going through a phase and I’ll hate it in a year or two. |
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Post by drbill on Feb 11, 2023 22:35:28 GMT -6
I usually let the vocalist "work" the mic. Pull in close when they want to, and back off when they need to. Depends on the song, vocalist, mic, delivery. It's all variable. But I'm usually around 2-12" -- usually. I consider 12" close as well.
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Post by donr on Feb 12, 2023 10:39:43 GMT -6
8"-12" has been my general range with LDC's. I'm listening to what it sounds like. Live, I eat the M88, 'cause that's what gets me in front of the band.
In the studio, a better sounding room allows more distance and visa versa.
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Post by antbar on Feb 12, 2023 11:58:48 GMT -6
I've been recording at home for years, always inching closer to a "good" vocal sound. I'm using a Roswell k87 in a "treated by Amazon" space and am usually no more than 6" from the mic.
In proper studios, I'm usually close on the mic as well. I guess I like to hear my voice bouncing off the grill!
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Post by drumsound on Feb 12, 2023 12:12:22 GMT -6
I often put the pop screen 5-6 inches from the mic and tell the singer to stand in front of it. Some instinctively find a spot they where like what they hear in the headphones. Younger singers get a bit of coaching on how to work the mic. Sometimes I'll ask singers to take a step back or forward to change the tone.
Honestly, though, I'm rarely in the room with them, so I can't definitively say how far or close they are.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 12, 2023 14:06:50 GMT -6
The thing is, if you record in a truly great room with superb acoustics you can stand back from a great mic and it will still sound fabulous (it also gives the option of using a mic in omni instead of the ubiquitous cardioid)
But the this does require a very high quality recording environment that will not impose and suck in an unflattering troublesome room tone.
When you record like this in my experience it makes mixing very easy as the natural dynamics are very smooth and controlled.
That said, for my style of music I love working in close on a mic for that big imposing "story teller" vocal (like Sting does) and that's where for me a U47 really shines as you can get right in close and work the mic and use mic technique to full effect.
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Post by crillemannen on Feb 12, 2023 15:25:06 GMT -6
I don't like the sound of when someone is eating the mic. Sure as an affect or on special occasions but in general I think it sounds much better with some air between the vocalist and the mic. Like people suggested, 10-15 inches or so. And I agree with HighTenor that in a great room you can keep quite the distance and it will still sound great.
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Post by mcirish on Feb 12, 2023 17:27:22 GMT -6
Pop filter is always about 4" off the mic, which is usually some U47 type tube mic. The singers are usually an inch or two off the filter. So, I guess it would be mostly around 6". For backup vocals I always go a bit further out so they don't have the same weight as the lead vocal. Those would be around 12".
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Post by smashlord on Feb 12, 2023 22:01:24 GMT -6
SM7Bs can sound good for rock vocals right up on it. LDCs seem to like a little further back.
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Post by wiz on Feb 13, 2023 1:13:30 GMT -6
8"-12" has been my general range with LDC's. I'm listening to what it sounds like. Live, I eat the M88, 'cause that's what gets me in front of the band. In the studio, a better sounding room allows more distance and visa versa. My front teeth have chips in them that fit perfectly into a SM58 grill.... 8) Playing bars where the punters can knock the mic stand..... I have had a fat lip from that, more times than I care to remember.... cheers Wiz |
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 13, 2023 20:53:39 GMT -6
8"-12" has been my general range with LDC's. I'm listening to what it sounds like. Live, I eat the M88, 'cause that's what gets me in front of the band. In the studio, a better sounding room allows more distance and visa versa. So you use an M88 live? What a coincidence! They're great mics... beat the pants off any Shures.... Were you using the same mic back in the day?
Recently I've been running it through an A-Designs channel strip and the Opto-Comp , which is IMO the best of the new LA2As.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 14, 2023 4:58:17 GMT -6
8"-12" has been my general range with LDC's. I'm listening to what it sounds like. Live, I eat the M88, 'cause that's what gets me in front of the band. In the studio, a better sounding room allows more distance and visa versa. So you use an M88 live? What a coincidence! They're great mics... beat the pants off any Shures.... Were you using the same mic back in the day?
Recently I've been running it through an A-Designs channel strip and the Opto-Comp , which is IMO the best of the new LA2As.
I have a lovely M88 from the early 80's .... the silver basket version. I alternate it for gigs with an SM58 .... I'm on the fence about which one I prefer - they both have qualities I really like. I'm going to demo the DPA DeFacto (linear) as I suspect it will be very nice indeed for a live vocal mic. |
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Post by donr on Feb 14, 2023 12:20:58 GMT -6
8"-12" has been my general range with LDC's. I'm listening to what it sounds like. Live, I eat the M88, 'cause that's what gets me in front of the band. In the studio, a better sounding room allows more distance and visa versa. So you use an M88 live? What a coincidence! They're great mics... beat the pants off any Shures.... Were you using the same mic back in the day?
Recently I've been running it through an A-Designs channel strip and the Opto-Comp , which is IMO the best of the new LA2As.
I've used just about every dynamic live vocal mic over the years. Shure, Audix, EV, CAD, Miktek all had their turn. Shure most often. Tried condensers, they didn't cut it for my voice. Only using the Beyer M88TG for a year or so, I like it a lot! A mic custom EQ'd for my particular voice might be ideal, (like a hearing aid is tailored for the wearer's ears) but the Beyer just sounds good, and helps Steve Lacerra (FOH) get my voice out in front of the band. My voice is a lot mellower than Eric Bloom's. And our biggest hit is sung in a low register, even for me. I think the M88 takes EQ very well, even as I don't EQ my in-ears. |
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Post by antbar on Feb 14, 2023 12:32:08 GMT -6
I've got a cute story on the close-micing (and beyond) front. Way back when (mid-90s), I was working on an album at Enharmonik, later known as the Hangar. It was indeed a huge space - a weirdly good-sounding room considering it wasn't treated, unless the skateboard half-pipe counts. Anyway, I'd just heard about the whole Bowie/Visconti/Hansa mic trick they'd used for Bowie's "Heroes" vocal, with three mics set close, far and distant etc. I was keen to take advantage of the studio's enormity and so we set up the mics in as similar a way as we could. We gated the two distant mics and picked a song where I could build a vocal from soft to belted. It didn't work at all. My voice just didn't have the "Bowie" it needed by any means and suddenly the "weirdly good-sounding" room just sounded silly. For the sake of staying somewhat on topic, I'll point out that the close mic was a U67 that had come to the studio via Mike Pinder. It was the same mic the Moody Blues had used on Days Of Future Passed, and it was THE magic mic at the studio. No matter the great and terrible mics I've used in great and terrible studios, I'm not very tech-savy. I just know that mic was a dear friend to my nasal voice, simply the "nicest" mic I've used. Anyway, Enharmonik was run by John Botch, who had recently become publisher of Tape Op magazine. Tape Op hosted its first annual convention in Sacramento, with Tony Visconti, Mitch Easter, Steve Albini and various other groovers attending. The conference was held at the Crest Theatre, a gorgeous Art Deco cinema, with the after-party happening at Enharmonik. All the various peeps mentioned above were there, chatting and drinking Pabst. I was in pinch-me hysterics when I saw Tony Visconti standing in the area I'd tried so hard to capture a "Heroes" vibe only a few months earlier. I'd met him at the Crest, but was too embarrassed to approach him again as he stood in my "three mic zone."
The studio eventually lost the 67 - it had been on loan and finally had to be returned. The first 67 they got as a replacement just didn't have the Thang of the Moody's mic. Thankfully, as Enharmonik became the Hangar and Tape Op continued to grow, endless great gear was flowing in. For as much mystique as that magic 67 had, I managed to make do with a gorgeous Telefunken 251. No idea how many inches away from it I sang, but...
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Post by bossanova on Feb 14, 2023 17:30:53 GMT -6
Similar to what’s been said above, I have a technique I’ve developed for close micing with an SM7B if I don’t have the time or ability to set up baffles. I’m generally about 2 inches off the mic, and then I apply a hefty low shelf cut followed by a tilt EQ to taste to add some brightness and further reduce any mud. A delay and subtle reverb adds some space to the otherwise bone dry sound. The downside is that the vocal is still right in your face without much depth.
If I’m working with a slightly better room and/or can set up temporary treatment, I can get good results by singing 6 inches off an LDC. It still needs the low shelf treatment but benefits from the added depth to sit better as well as fewer pokey frequencies.
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